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Off-topic Random Thoughts Thread

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2 hours ago, MassTransitHonchkrow said:

The upward mobility of Boroughers is at grievous risk.

The "upward" mobility of NYC patrons is on somebody's elevator....

Long been tired of scaffolding just about everywhere you look in the heart of Manhattan, especially.

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On 2/18/2020 at 5:04 PM, B35 via Church said:

The "upward" mobility of NYC patrons is on somebody's elevator....

Long been tired of scaffolding just about everywhere you look in the heart of Manhattan, especially.

Just Manhattan?

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A round of applause will also be distributed at 7 Pm for all NYC workers reflected from this video. 

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I don't know one happily married man. All miserable and put in overtime just to escape the hell at home. 

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This is probably futile, since the OT section here's pretty much dead, but I'll still copy/paste this from the chatbox to *maybe* spark some discussion.....
 

Quote

B35 via Church Today 12:26 AM

Anyway... It's funny how you have people that are saying "f**k 12" now, since the whole george floyd bit... There's a lyric/saying that goes along the lines of "I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6"... So from now on, whenever I see people on that "f**k 12" BS, I'm going to CTFU in saying, so you're saying "f*** the jury"

B35 via Church Today 12:30 AM

Hell, these are the same people that are summoning for "12" when someone gets shot, or otherwise in need of police assistance.... People never cease to amaze me.

 

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23 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Hell, these are the same people that are summoning for "12" when someone gets shot, or otherwise in need of police assistance.... People never cease to amaze me.

What I found fascinating was a video of a BLM protest in Whitestone in which a dude looking like Wolverine tried to attack a group of protestors... then all of a sudden people from the crowd were pleading "call the police!" Granted, I'm pretty sure the protestors simply despised general police brutality, but regardless, the situation is prophetic for what would happen if you were to actually abolish the police as a whole.

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1 hour ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

What I found fascinating was a video of a BLM protest in Whitestone in which a dude looking like Wolverine tried to attack a group of protestors... then all of a sudden people from the crowd were pleading "call the police!" Granted, I'm pretty sure the protestors simply despised general police brutality, but regardless, the situation is prophetic for what would happen if you were to actually abolish the police as a whole.

Right... When that cold hard reality hits people, all that rah rah, emotionalism BS spirals down the toilet....

It's especially funny as shit to me when you have anarchists crying for police when shit gets real.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

What I found fascinating was a video of a BLM protest in Whitestone in which a dude looking like Wolverine tried to attack a group of protestors... then all of a sudden people from the crowd were pleading "call the police!" Granted, I'm pretty sure the protestors simply despised general police brutality, but regardless, the situation is prophetic for what would happen if you were to actually abolish the police as a whole.

Abolishing and defunding the police aren't similar terms, so I don't see how that correlates. Whether you agree with the position or not, getting rid of police entirely is not synonymous with reducing/divesting from the police force and reinvesting funds elsewhere for other things. In most cases, when defunding the police comes up, the discussion is more to what extent would the police be defunded. Abolishing the police is an extreme which is quite frankly not supported with the general public, even among those protesting.

If you ask most people, including people protesting and who support defunding the police, you'll see that there is a common consensus that police are needed. Their answers differ on whether the police is doing their job properly, what functions should the police have, and whether there money allocated right now is a good use of funds.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Abolishing and defunding the police aren't similar terms, so I don't see how that correlates. Whether you agree with the position or not, getting rid of police entirely is not synonymous with reducing/divesting from the police force and reinvesting funds elsewhere for other things. In most cases, when defunding the police comes up, the discussion is more to what extent would the police be defunded. Abolishing the police is an extreme which is quite frankly not supported with the general public, even among those protesting.

If you ask most people, including people protesting and who support defunding the police, you'll see that there is a common consensus that police are needed. Their answers differ on whether the police is doing their job properly, what functions should the police have, and whether there money allocated right now is a good use of funds.

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of the consensus of these protesters.... Too many people out here screaming this "defund police" rhetoric are actually not all that concerned about reallocating money that goes towards funding law enforcement, elsewhere.... You state that an abolishment of the police being the extreme... Sure, and you know what else amounts to an extreme? People being "extreme"ly fed up with what the police has been able to get away with, when it comes to the people (the very public) they're supposed to be protecting & serving....

In laymens, you're giving a lot of these protesters far too much credit.... People run with buzzwords/terms all the time, disregarding their literal meanings.... A lot of these people on this "defund police" shit, are on some abolish police shit..... "Defund" just sounds cooler, I suppose..... Regardless, the problem is, they really don't know what that's going to mean for society & their own well being... People have this tendency to believe that they're superman & superwoman - except when it comes time to actually BE superman & superwoman..... Then they fold up like some bitches....

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7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of the consensus of these protesters.... Too many people out here screaming this "defund police" rhetoric are actually not all that concerned about reallocating money that goes towards funding law enforcement, elsewhere.... You state that an abolishment of the police being the extreme... Sure, and you know what else amounts to an extreme? People being "extreme"ly fed up with what the police has been able to get away with, when it comes to the people (the very public) they're supposed to be protecting & serving....

In laymens, you're giving a lot of these protesters far too much credit.... People run with buzzwords/terms all the time, disregarding their literal meanings.... A lot of these people on this "defund police" shit, are on some abolish police shit..... "Defund" just sounds cooler, I suppose..... Regardless, the problem is, they really don't know what that's going to mean for society & their own well being... People have this tendency to believe that they're superman & superwoman - except when it comes time to actually BE superman & superwoman..... Then they fold up like some bitches....

Those on the position of "abolishing the police" are generally pretty vocal about it, and don't hide it. They know what they mean when they say that, so I don't really get the sense that there's this silent majority on abolishing the police.  Also, there are definitely conversations being had on how much and what areas to reallocate funds, including on social media. IDK about facebook, but I have seen them on Twitter and Instagram. 

As far as the protests go, there's bound to be people there for a variety of reasons. You'll have those who primarily want more police accountability, people who want to divest from the police and reinvest elsewhere, people who want structural changes in the police and people who straight up want abolishment. Are there people who are opportunists who want to score brownie points, yes. But the vast majority do want police to be held accountable for their actions. What their positions are vary, but abolishing is a small percentage of people; it's unfavorable among virtually every age and racial group. 

 

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46 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Those on the position of "abolishing the police" are generally pretty vocal about it, and don't hide it. They know what they mean when they say that, so I don't really get the sense that there's this silent majority on abolishing the police.  Also, there are definitely conversations being had on how much and what areas to reallocate funds, including on social media. IDK about facebook, but I have seen them on Twitter and Instagram. 

As far as the protests go, there's bound to be people there for a variety of reasons. You'll have those who primarily want more police accountability, people who want to divest from the police and reinvest elsewhere, people who want structural changes in the police and people who straight up want abolishment. Are there people who are opportunists who want to score brownie points, yes. But the vast majority do want police to be held accountable for their actions. What their positions are vary, but abolishing is a small percentage of people; it's unfavorable among virtually every age and racial group.

You can dub it a silent majority if you want, but I most definitely get the sense that people out here screaming "defund police" are on some abolish police shit & I do not think it is at all a small a percentage (although we might want it to be a small percentage).... What I'm saying is that you have people that are overt about it (the ones that you say are pretty vocal about it) & those that aren't that overt about it.... You are taking those that are screaming "defund police" as just people that want police to literally be defunded & have that be the extent of it... No offense fam, but I'm not that naive.... I underestimate no one.... They're the same ones going "f*** 12" & all that other nonsense... I don't believe for a second that there are all these people that are charged up about police brutality & whatever other injustices that have been casted out, sitting there having talks about what money should go where... Whatever people that are having conversations about the city's/country's fiscal spending on police, are the people that represent a minority....

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

You can dub it a silent majority if you want, but I most definitely get the sense that people out here screaming "defund police" are on some abolish police shit & I do not think it is at all a small a percentage (although we might want it to be a small percentage).... What I'm saying is that you have people that are overt about it (the ones that you say are pretty vocal about it) & those that aren't that overt about it.... You are taking those that are screaming "defund police" as just people that want police to literally be defunded & have that be the extent of it... No offense fam, but I'm not that naive.... I underestimate no one.... They're the same ones going "f*** 12" & all that other nonsense... I don't believe for a second that there are all these people that are charged up about police brutality & whatever other injustices that have been casted out, sitting there having talks about what money should go where... Whatever people that are having conversations about the city's/country's fiscal spending on police, are the people that represent a minority....

That;s not really the case though (people wanting to abolish the police), and it's not just my sentiment either. There have been polls conducted asking this very question. See the 'Ideas With Little Support' section of the July Gallup poll findings and the charts towards the end of the page which break it down further into groups and specific actions.  47% of all surveyed agree to reducing police budgets and reinvesting into social programs, compared to 15% of people who want abolition. If all those 15% also agreed with the defunding question, that's less than one-third of the "defund" group. Even in the age and racial groups that have the highest concentration of abolition support, it's still unfavorable (33% support or less).

Also, you can check pages 43 & 44 (question 22 & 23) on the YouGov poll findings from Mid-June. Question 22 asks about defunding, and question 23 asks about abolishment. Although defunding is still view as unfavorable as per the poll, abolishment received fewer support among those same people. Opposition to it is greater (compared to defunding), favorability is less than half of defunding, and there are less people unsure of abolishing compared to defunding. So I don't think people are completely unaware of the meaning between the two terms. 

Where I can agree with you is with respect to the money conversation. Yes, there the money conversation isn't what's dominating, but it definitely is being had on outlets outside of mainstream outlets. Whether that will change or not is another story. Will that change among the general public so that it's favorable has yet to be seen, but within the groups wanting to defund, there is support towards reallocation of funds. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

That;s not really the case though (people wanting to abolish the police), and it's not just my sentiment either. There have been polls conducted asking this very question. See the 'Ideas With Little Support' section of the July Gallup poll findings and the charts towards the end of the page which break it down further into groups and specific actions.  47% of all surveyed agree to reducing police budgets and reinvesting into social programs, compared to 15% of people who want abolition. If all those 15% also agreed with the defunding question, that's less than one-third of the "defund" group. Even in the age and racial groups that have the highest concentration of abolition support, it's still unfavorable (33% support or less).

Also, you can check pages 43 & 44 (question 22 & 23) on the YouGov poll findings from Mid-June. Question 22 asks about defunding, and question 23 asks about abolishment. Although defunding is still view as unfavorable as per the poll, abolishment received fewer support among those same people. Opposition to it is greater (compared to defunding), favorability is less than half of defunding, and there are less people unsure of abolishing compared to defunding. So I don't think people are completely unaware of the meaning between the two terms. 

Where I can agree with you is with respect to the money conversation. Yes, there the money conversation isn't what's dominating, but it definitely is being had on outlets outside of mainstream outlets. Whether that will change or not is another story. Will that change among the general public so that it's favorable has yet to be seen, but within the groups wanting to defund, there is support towards reallocation of funds. 

For me to put the same amount of stock into these polls that you're referencing that you are, I would have to be convinced that 100% of protesters (in this city/country, depending on what scope we're talking about here) took part in it..... IDK man, this is all coming across as if you yourself hold the position that police should be defunded (which I personally don't care if you do or don't; it's of no consequence to me) & are trying to defend the people that just want police to be defunded (and not abolished) - as opposed to those that want police to be abolished (that are out here screaming "defund police").....

Again, I'm not underestimating the sheer amount of people that want to do away with police & the rally cry of "defund police" aren't just of those that are oblivious of the literal definition... They are also comprised of those that don't give a f*** about the literal definition.... Yes, literally, they're not - but to those types, defund police & abolish police are one in the same.... When emotions/high tensions get involved, you can't expect the masses to be looking at shit logically.....

Let me put it this way... See how you conveyed to Bay Ridge Express that abolishing police & defunding police aren't similar terms? Do you know how many people you would have to try to convince of that being the case.... Better yet, would you even want to? Don't know about you, but I sure as f*** wouldn't....

Edited by B35 via Church
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

For me to put the same amount of stock into these polls that you're referencing that you are, I would have to be convinced that 100% of protesters (in this city/country, depending on what scope we're talking about here) took part in it..... IDK man, this is all coming across as if you yourself hold the position that police should be defunded (which I personally don't care if you do or don't; it's of no consequence to me) & are trying to defend the people that just want police to be defunded (and not abolished) - as opposed to those that want police to be abolished (that are out here screaming "defund police").....

Again, I'm not underestimating the sheer amount of people that want to do away with police & the rally cry of "defund police" aren't just of those that are oblivious of the literal definition... They are also comprised of those that don't give a f*** about the literal definition.... Yes, literally, they're not - but to those types, defund police & abolish police are one in the same.... When emotions/high tensions get involved, you can't expect the masses to be looking at shit logically.....

Let me put it this way... See how you conveyed to Bay Ridge Express that abolishing police & defunding police aren't similar terms? Do you know how many people you would have to try to convince of that being the case.... Better yet, would you even want to? Don't know about you, but I sure as f*** wouldn't....

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

There's bound to be people with rather outlying or extreme positions at those protests, because not everyone is there for the exact same thing. The coverage of protests, including outside of mainstream media, don't really portray the sentiment of wanting abolition. The people, politicians/political figures, and organizations which are relatively active with at protests are primarily pushing for accountability on the part of police officers, and reinvestment to other social programs. Even on social media, abolition is not something that is a hot take. When policing discussions come up, they're about holding police officers accountable and firing them.

With people on the 'abolish' position, there's the group that wants abolition straight up, and those that wants to defund in phases, in order to eventually abolish. If the latter is a category, you would need to know the difference between the two positions. Even if it's a large group numerically, it would be a statistical minority.  If you poll protesters and ask if police are necessary, most people would agree with that, including those in low-income/working class neighborhoods. What varies is if one asks what functions should the police serve/report to, and the money allocated to them. Subsequently, if you ask of their opinions on defunding, followed up by their opinion on abolition, there will be a much lower approval for the latter. 

 

 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

There's bound to be people with rather outlying or extreme positions at those protests, because not everyone is there for the exact same thing. The coverage of protests, including outside of mainstream media, don't really portray the sentiment of wanting abolition. The people, politicians/political figures, and organizations which are relatively active with at protests are primarily pushing for accountability on the part of police officers, and reinvestment to other social programs. Even on social media, abolition is not something that is a hot take. When policing discussions come up, they're about holding police officers accountable and firing them.

With people on the 'abolish' position, there's the group that wants abolition straight up, and those that wants to defund in phases, in order to eventually abolish. If the latter is a category, you would need to know the difference between the two positions. Even if it's a large group numerically, it would be a statistical minority.  If you poll protesters and ask if police are necessary, most people would agree with that, including those in low-income/working class neighborhoods. What varies is if one asks what functions should the police serve/report to, and the money allocated to them. Subsequently, if you ask of their opinions on defunding, followed up by their opinion on abolition, there will be a much lower approval for the latter.

That's fine by me, because I'm not of the ilk that believes that everybody out here screaming "defund police" have the maximal mindset of just wanting less funds being spent on law enforcement.... You are analyzing things too literally & I outright refuse to give the vast majority of protesters that credit.....

Edited by B35 via Church
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On 8/30/2020 at 4:03 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Abolishing and defunding the police aren't similar terms, so I don't see how that correlates. Whether you agree with the position or not, getting rid of police entirely is not synonymous with reducing/divesting from the police force and reinvesting funds elsewhere for other things. In most cases, when defunding the police comes up, the discussion is more to what extent would the police be defunded. Abolishing the police is an extreme which is quite frankly not supported with the general public, even among those protesting.

My intention was never to argue whether that group advocated for defunding/abolishing the police, or whether it is better to defund/abolish the police, or whether defunding and abolishing the police are the same. However, I have a good idea of what you're talking about--I too see a demographic on social media that advocates for ways the police department could be improved or rethought upon (which includes defunding) and not necessarily abolished. As for what protestors are advocating for, and whether they deserve credit for thinking critically in such a way... I don't know, I haven't talked with any protestors.

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So the Milwaukee Bucks suck. They are currently losing an important game 4 with Giannis being out the game (sprained his ankle again), to Miami, who's up 3-0 in the series.

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44 minutes ago, NBTA said:

So the Milwaukee Bucks suck. They are currently losing an important game 4 with Giannis being out the game (sprained his ankle again), to Miami, who's up 3-0 in the series.

Not that I've been following anything sports related lately, but :lol::lol::lol::lol: at the team they won't STFU about, about to get swept out of the building....

---------

edit: quick google search reveals that the Bucks live to see another game; they just won in OT... apparently Giannis is hurt *shrugs*

Edited by B35 via Church

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Not that I've been following anything sports related lately, but :lol::lol::lol::lol: at the team they won't STFU about, about to get swept out of the building....

---------

edit: quick google search reveals that the Bucks live to see another game; they just won in OT... apparently Giannis is hurt *shrugs*

Yeah my post didn't age well, but Giannis is probably gonna be out for game 5.

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