Guard who witnessed D train bloodbath, says he slammed brakes on subway slay

[LRG]

Imagine.....if you were in that car, and your banggin on the crew door, and there's no response, whats the best way to get the crews attention????? chances are, the T/O would not have known whats going on till the next stop, then called the cops, with the murderer getting away! that resi=ults in a longer response time.

and think of the victims family. if someone had a chance to in some way try to get some kinda word out to get help and they didnt, that family would feel more worse than they already are dealing with the loss of a loved one. Atleast someone did something!!

 

Thank you, Far Rock. All that matters is that someone did something to have this a-hole caught.

[Grand Concourse]

the cord must've been pulled directly outside of the t/o position since the t/o didn't have to exit his cab to reset it. they are all very lucky - the passengers and crew alike. judging the guy for pulling the cord is ridiculous. yeah, it wasn't the best decision but in a situation like that all rationale goes out the window. no one should get locked up for that. be reasonable.

 

I never said the guy should be locked up, but still he potentially risked people's lives because of his knee-jerk actions to pull the cord. That is why I don't feel people should be allowed to pull the cord for any reason.

 

I understand some of you are saying this is a good thing [about the brake being pulled] and I'm glad the guy was caught, but I don't see how wise it was to trap yourself with a possible killer in a car you can't escape from. The only thing stopping that knife from your throat are your arms and maybe a bag.

 

That's where I'm making my conclusions from - the perspective of the people in the car with the killer. So forgive me for not sharing in your line of opinons. I'm not being confrontational here, but I sure as hell would not wish this situation on anyone.

[EE Broadway Local]

"The motorman looked out and Martinez forced his way inside, slamming the door behind him. " The motorman wasn't out of his cab, the guy forced himself into the cab and closed the door shut.

Where he told the motorman the situation and the motorman radioed for help. It sounds like this incident happened in the first car - Sanchez was at the back of the car "acting like nothing happened".

 

If I couldn't get a motorman's attention to a serious situation like this, I would pull the handle, too.

[Far Rock Depot]

im sure that if that psycho wouldve went for someone else. everyone wouldve jumped on him and beat the crap outta him? dont think so? i recall a plane full of heroes on an airplane that was designated Flight 93!!! Once the initial shock of what happends gets overwhelmed by needing to take action, i trust everyone would think the same thing and acted! ive seen it plenty of times. people will take action, sometimes it just takes one person to set it off and beleive me, there's ALWAYS that one person!

[Far Rock Depot]

 

If I couldn't get a motorman's attention to a serious situation like this, I would pull the handle, too.

 

ditto!

[Grand Concourse]

Ah ok no problem, I just thought it was since you quoted me. No harm, no foul. I am still suprised the guy did not shank anyone else. I think that had it been me that stabbed they guy over a seat, if I saw there might be no way out I would go down fighting. Everyone in that car should have gone out an bought a lotto ticket.

 

And that I agree, they are very lucky the killer didn't go after anyone else. obviously no one is going to approach the guy alone, but if he went after everyone as a group, they would hopefully try anything to defend themselves.

[LRG]

im sure that if that psycho wouldve went for someone else. everyone wouldve jumped on him and beat the crap outta him? dont think so? i recall a plane full of heroes on an airplane that was designated Flight 93!!! Once the initial shock of what happends gets overwhelmed by needing to take action, i trust everyone would think the same thing and acted! ive seen it plenty of times. people will take action, sometimes it just takes one person to set it off and beleive me, there's ALWAYS that one person!

 

He broke the bystander effect!

[Locomotion69]

Ok, but didn't he drop the knife through the doors before he walked to the back of the subway car while trying to blend in with the other passengers? All eyes were on him, if he was unarmed somebody should have taken him down, now if he was still holding the knife that is a different story.

 

Let's hope this guy gets sentenced to a very long prison time, he is unfit to live in society.

[pr1nyc1]

So what is the E-Brake for than?:confused:

[Joe]

It's for situations where the movement of the train directly contributes to someones demise.

[INDman]

It's for situations where the movement of the train directly contributes to someones demise.

 

IE: Passenger trapped in the doors and the train moves, people falling between cars, and other such unsafe conditions.

[metsfan]

I only hope, that if i am ever in such a situation, that i can act quickly and the result is positive for all involved.

 

- A

[BroadwayBuffer]

Just like you're not supposed to pull the cord when there's a sick passenger, pulling the cord here was wrong. It's amazing how some of you are unable to deal with an opinion that is different from your own.

 

Yup. Not to mention there are instructions posted in every car which specifically state that for police, medical, or fire emergencies Do not pull the Emergency Cord. It should only be pulled in the circumstances which Joe and INDman described.

 

I hope you weren't referring to me in that one. Because I don't really see their point of view as wrong. I'm just stating that if it were me I know what I would do. I can always deal with the aftermath later.

 

Well, learn that it isn't what you should do, because it can do more harm than good. You may not even be alive to deal with the "aftermath" by that point. That's why police don't "shoot first and ask questions later" because it's too late to deal with aftermath by that point.

[LRG]

Yup. Not to mention there are instructions posted in every car which specifically state that for police, medical, or fire emergencies Do not pull the Emergency Cord. It should only be pulled in the circumstances which Joe and INDman described.

 

Well, learn that it isn't what you should do, because it can do more harm than good. You may not even be alive to deal with the "aftermath" by that point. That's why police don't "shoot first and ask questions later" because it's too late to deal with aftermath by that point.

 

They're going to have to add a new section to that poster: psycho killer on train.

[BroadwayBuffer]

They're going to have to add a new section to that poster: psycho killer on train.

 

Which already falls into the section of police, which Do not pull the Emergency Cord still applies.

 

Imagine if this happens at the bottom of an East River tube. I shutter to think based on what I've seen in this thread.

[INDman]

Which already falls into the section of police, which Do not pull the Emergency Cord still applies.

 

Imagine if this happens at the bottom of an East River tube. I shutter to think based on what I've seen in this thread.

 

I know how that would go, 30 minutes plus as PD waits for confirmation that power is off and they proceed down the tunnel. If they called ESU, it will take even longer.

[Urbanfortitude]

I still sit firmly on the idea that I'd rather be trapped with someone who's armed with a knife vs a gun. Unarmed is definitely better but...sigh...I'm done with this topic. I'd rather hope it never happens to me.

[Far Rock Depot]

I know how that would go, 30 minutes plus as PD waits for confirmation that power is off and they proceed down the tunnel. If they called ESU, it will take even longer.

 

Here's what most likely would happen, they would find out why the brakes were acticvated, then after finding out about the incident, called it in, control wouldve notified police, and told the train to proceed to the next stop and wait for PD, reset the brakes, then proceed to the next stop. Which sounds like what happened here, and it wasnt under a river. Lets be real here. This is why the NTTs E-brakes are activated when the train is within a station. If that D was an NTT, and the cord was pulled, brakes would activate when any of the cars are within platform paramiters. And sure, the signs say "inform the police, dont pull the cord" but people dont even read the route bullet on the front of trains. And from the story in the paper, the guard was knockin on the door and most T/Os wont pay it any mind till they are in the station. By then the doors wouldve been opened, and the perp wouldve gotten away. think as a normal rider and not as a railfan. In the heat of the moment, all of our "railfans senses" will not be tingling. we as humans have a "fight of flight" mentallity in our natural survival instincts. That guard banged on the door, got no answer, and desided to do something that will get the train crews attention! When the brakes were reset, the Police were already notified. in realistic time, the pulling of the brakes got police to the station a little quicker than if "proper procedure" was followed.

[Grand Concourse]

Here's what most likely would happen, they would find out why the brakes were acticvated, then after finding out about the incident, called it in, control wouldve notified police, and told the train to proceed to the next stop and wait for PD, reset the brakes, then proceed to the next stop. Which sounds like what happened here, and it wasnt under a river. Lets be real here. This is why the NTTs E-brakes are activated when the train is within a station. If that D was an NTT, and the cord was pulled, brakes would activate when any of the cars are within platform paramiters. And sure, the signs say "inform the police, dont pull the cord" but people dont even read the route bullet on the front of trains. And from the story in the paper, the guard was knockin on the door and most T/Os wont pay it any mind till they are in the station. By then the doors wouldve been opened, and the perp wouldve gotten away. think as a normal rider and not as a railfan. In the heat of the moment, all of our "railfans senses" will not be tingling. we as humans have a "fight of flight" mentallity in our natural survival instincts. That guard banged on the door, got no answer, and desided to do something that will get the train crews attention! When the brakes were reset, the Police were already notified. in realistic time, the pulling of the brakes got police to the station a little quicker than if "proper procedure" was followed.

 

Interesting fact about the NTT and the brakes. :tup: Learned something new.

There is the one good thing about the NTTs being they have the intercoms. So at least the people would be less inclined to pull the cord and press the button to inform the crew about the situation.

[Far Rock Depot]

Interesting fact about the NTT and the brakes. :tup: Learned something new.

There is the one good thing about the NTTs being they have the intercoms. So at least the people would be less inclined to pull the cord and press the button to inform the crew about the situation.

 

the E-brake activation by cord on an NTT goes by the same thing that the Automatic announcements and signs go by, rotations of the trains axels. So the train KNOWS when its in a station.

 

And yeah, the NTTs have the intercom, but realistically theres 2 problems,1. most people dont notice them. hell, sometimes I can find them either. and 2. with all "tom foolery" with people (mostly bored teens with no home training) messing with the intercoms and passenger alarm strips in the 90s during testing of that technology, most crews would either shut them off, or ignore them, or just wait till the train is in the station before answering.

[Grand Concourse]

Hem sadly so. I one time saw a kid press the button and his dad had to apologize about the mistake.

Well at least the NTTs stops at the platforms than in the tunnels, so even people that insists on pulling the cord won't 'doom' everyone.

[Far Rock Depot]

Hem sadly so. I one time saw a kid press the button and his dad had to apologize about the mistake.

Well at least the NTTs stops at the platforms than in the tunnels, so even people that insists on pulling the cord won't 'doom' everyone.

 

So true GC. The only things thatll make an NTT bail out in a tunnel is if: A crew member activates it from within the cabs, the trip cock is contacted by the trip arm ( or a random piece of trash that is high and solid enough) on the trackbed or a T/O 'pops the throttle' (dead man's feature)

[RTOMan]

Where he told the motorman the situation and the motorman radioed for help. It sounds like this incident happened in the first car - Sanchez was at the back of the car "acting like nothing happened".

 

If I couldn't get a motorman's attention to a serious situation like this, I would pull the handle, too.

 

You would be surprised what a few hard knocks on the door and telling me something would do...

 

It works it really does....

[RTOMan]

Just like you're not supposed to pull the cord when there's a sick passenger, pulling the cord here was wrong. It's amazing how some of you are unable to deal with an opinion that is different from your own.

 

Common sense goes out the window in times of stress with some people...

[lirim]

That was the worst moment mta could have had.