East Side access question

[mark1447]

Since the LIRR will merge with MNCRR to Grand Central:

 

Will there be a track to connect LIRR and MNCRR. Like exchanging trains without going thru Amtrak s NEC and the NH.

 

What LIRR branches/Lines will have access to GCT?

[Amtrak7]

There will be no LIRR-MNCRR track connection, at least what I am aware of.

 

Trackage-wise, it will be possible for all LIRR lines that serve PSNY today to serve GCT. Service-wise, I don't know what will run.

[metsfan]

The only metro north connection to LIRR possible is via penn station down the new york connecting railroad/NEC using M8 MNRR cosmo's, or some sort of modified diesel like ALP-45dp. The ESA is aligned with the ARC in the blueprints, allowing a connection some day between the 2 principle stations of the city. Amtrak used to run empire service out of GCT for the longest time, but since the ESA will be underneath and not in the correct angle to intersect the GCT tracks on either level, there can be no rail connection, only a transfer between the 2 areas via escalator etc.

 

As Amtrak7 stated, all branches will have access, and the tunnels may possibly also be equipped with, or at least provisions for catenary in the event of an incident blocking NYP.

 

Wit the opening of GCT as an LIRR stop, the can make more space for (NJT)'s planned service increases at NYP, but this won't happen till ESA is totally done and running, they will adjust the schedules and see how well they work before finalizing on any specific movement pattern.

 

It's a pretty interesting project, especially when combined with the ARC!

 

- A

[lilbluefoxie]

What will happen to Hunterspoint Ave and Long Island City Stations?

[Pu3rToRoCk8947]

What will happen to Hunterspoint Ave and Long Island City Stations?

I'm assuming these stations will be deemed useless once ESA is up and running.

To answer your question since these stations are only used on Peak Hours on the Weekdays,i doubt the LIRR will continue to have them open once East Side Access is completed.

[R44 5278]

A connection between the LIRR and MNRR is not feasible in that they not only use different DC voltages, but also different types of third rail contact systems. Also, diesels aren't allowed inside tunnels so they can't work it out either.

[mark1447]

A connection between the LIRR and MNRR is not feasible in that they not only use different DC voltages, but also different types of third rail contact systems. Also, diesels aren't allowed inside tunnels so they can't work it out either.

 

The MNCRR GE Genesis P32AC-DM is Dieseled and uses 3rd rail when entering 97th St.. Doesnt DM30AC allow 3rd rail access? Especially since it goes underground at NYP.

[Joe]

The DM30AC is a dual-mode locomotive, however, it is viewed as a huge liability by the powers that be. Mostly because it's a piece of junk.

[INDman]

They are abig pieices of junk that always seem to die in the worst spots.

[metsfan]

What will happen to Hunterspoint Ave and Long Island City Stations?

 

Nothing, they will remain as important as they are now, simply fewer trains will run to NYP.

 

- A

[Amtrak7]

Nothing, they will remain as important as they are now, simply fewer trains will run to NYP.

 

- A

 

That's not true. The MTA is keeping the same number of trains into NYP as now. GCT will be used as a terminal for added service on all branches, or if there is a disruption in/out of NYP. Remember that when ESA began construction, the Main Line 3rd track was expected to start construction around now and finish a few years later, but probably before 2013, which is ESA expected opening date. So, the capacity chokepoints are just moving around the system.Now, the MTA has claimed it will "restart" the environmental review process next year. Looks like it will see the beginning of construction just as ESA opens.

 

There are rumors that LIC and HPA will be closed, and I think that it should be done.

[Jayjay1213]

but probably before 2013, which is ESA expected opening date.

 

 

Was should replace is, last thing I read was that ESA was pushed back to at least 2017.

 

Also, diesels aren't allowed inside tunnels so they can't work it out either.

 

 

Totally false, this has been discussed before.

[Pu3rToRoCk8947]

Long Island City and Hunterspoint Avenue Stations will remain part time terminals until ESA is completed,nobody knows when that will be done

One looks at Hunterspoint Avenue Station as an example because the LIRR has ignored it almost completely as far as station condition,i wouldn't think they would invest more repairs into it knowing it would be shuttered once ESA is complete

Would it be possible the LIRR close Long Island City and Hunterspoint Avenue Stations after ESA is completed?

Remember commuters going to Manhattan in the AM Peak and going back home during the PM Peak are coming from Manhattan itself and a connection to LIRR branches from Grand Central would make Long Island City and Hunterspoint Avenue Stations more lightly used

Of course this is my opinion only

[metsfan]

I disagree with discontinuing service at stations that have seen service for 120 years, including the historic principal terminus at long island city. We want to expand service, not reduce it! Besides, people still need to get to and from these areas, you can't just not run trains to a large yard and busy endpoint just because there's a secondary route. So please, if LIRR stopped serving long island city, it should be noted that the people in the area would no longer have access to rail transport (subway doesn't count), including LIRR, amtrak and (NJT) workers!

 

- A

[mark1447]

I disagree with discontinuing service at stations that have seen service for 120 years, including the historic principal terminus at long island city. We want to expand service, not reduce it! Besides, people still need to get to and from these areas, you can't just not run trains to a large yard and busy endpoint just because there's a secondary route. So please, if LIRR stopped serving long island city, it should be noted that the people in the area would no longer have access to rail transport (subway doesn't count), including LIRR, amtrak and (NJT) workers!

 

- A

 

I guess your right, especially since GCT/NYP has the highest volume of passengers. I wouldnt get ride on the LIC stations, it provides not only customers for that area but also as an alternative so riders would'nt be jammed in that area..

[metsfan]

I guess your right, especially since GCT/NYP has the highest volume of passengers. I wouldnt get ride on the LIC stations, it provides not only customers for that area but also as an alternative so riders would'nt be jammed in that area..

 

Totally. LIC is important for about 18% of LIRR riders, getting rid of it & abandoning 8 miles of track that have been there for longer than NYC has been NYC would be beyond foolish. Hunterspoint & LIC are vital in case something happens to the tunnels, though hunterspoint isn't nearly as busy as when PRR called sunnyside home.

 

- A

[Amtrak7]

2017 is ARC estimated completion date.

 

There are no rumors or plans to abandon the tracks/yards leading to the LIC station, just the 2 platforms.

 

Part of the ESA plan is a new Sunnyside station, which will serve the LI/NJT/AMTK employees.

[Jayjay1213]

2017 is ARC estimated completion date.

 

I was off by two years, 2015 is East Side Access new date, but from the workers I have talked to down in GCT when working the ESA work train, they say thats a pipe dream.

 

http://www.plannyc.org/taxonomy/term/671

[Shortline Bus]

I disagree with discontinuing service at stations that have seen service for 120 years, including the historic principal terminus at long island city. We want to expand service, not reduce it! Besides, people still need to get to and from these areas, you can't just not run trains to a large yard and busy endpoint just because there's a secondary route. So please, if LIRR stopped serving long island city, it should be noted that the people in the area would no longer have access to rail transport (subway doesn't count), including LIRR, amtrak and (NJT) workers!

 

- A

 

when gct connection (sorry to sound dumb)opens since both LIC and hunterpoint are closeby, as a comproise i think that only should stay one 'open' as a weekday only terminal and close the other. it would waste monies to keep 'both' open.

plus i read somewhere that the mta/lirr also plans to bulid a sunnyside 'local' station as well.

 

as far as what branches/lines of the lirr should go to GCT, imo these lines should go there 24/7 all the time.

 

1)Hempstead

2)Long Beach

3)Montauk

 

alternative trains with flatbush ave.

4)Far Rockaway

 

part time service weekdays only.

5)Babolyn

 

IMO to avoid redudant service with the (7)line, the lirr Pt washington line should still go to Penn Sta. 'full time' with service from gct only for 'special events' at Flushing Meadows such as Mets games, concerts and the US Tennis Open. reactions?:confused:

[metsfan]

Ok, so close hunterspoint, open sunnyside, keep LIC.

 

- A

[lilbluefoxie]

I would have Port Washington do mostly penn with some rush hour to grand central, have Ronkonkoma and Long Beach to grand central with some rush hour to penn, Huntington and Babylon mostly penn with some to ronkonkoma and brooklyn.

 

Keep Hempstead and Far Rockaway mostly to brooklyn with some service to Penn more Far Rockaway trains go to penn as an alternative to (no GCT access) and have West Hempstead go somewhere besides Valley Stream most of the time.

 

if anything have the LIC-Hunterspoint be a shuttle to/from Jamaica or have it serve mostly Oyster Bay and Montauk trains

 

 

when gct connection (sorry to sound dumb)opens since both LIC and hunterpoint are closeby, as a comproise i think that only should stay one 'open' as a weekday only terminal and close the other. it would waste monies to keep 'both' open.

plus i read somewhere that the mta/lirr also plans to bulid a sunnyside 'local' station as well.

 

as far as what branches/lines of the lirr should go to GCT, imo these lines should go there 24/7 all the time.

 

1)Hempstead

2)Long Beach

3)Montauk

 

alternative trains with flatbush ave.

4)Far Rockaway

 

part time service weekdays only.

5)Babolyn

 

IMO to avoid redudant service with the (7)line, the lirr Pt washington line should still go to Penn Sta. 'full time' with service from gct only for 'special events' at Flushing Meadows such as Mets games, concerts and the US Tennis Open. reactions?:confused:

[Joe]

As per contract, passenger runs must occur along the Lower Montauk at least once a day (weekdays). Unless they were up to some major reworking of the track in the area, it would make sense for Long Island City to remain open. I can definitely see Hunterspoint Ave. being axed however once ESA & Sunnyside opens.

 

A train on the Lower Montauk cannot access the East River Tunnels, nor can that train access HPA (without a reverse move that is).

[Matt91]

A connection between the LIRR and MNRR is not feasible in that they not only use different DC voltages, but also different types of third rail contact systems. Also, diesels aren't allowed inside tunnels so they can't work it out either.

 

if catenary were to be built, then a connection would work, just like NJT does with the MNRR service to Secaucus/Meadowlands. But regardless, a GCT-NYP connection should still be built in case there is a problem in any of the tunnels and to allow GCT access to west side yard.

 

They are abig pieices of junk that always seem to die in the worst spots.

 

As a Port Jeff rider, couldn't agree more. Ditto for the DEs

 

Ok, so close hunterspoint, open sunnyside, keep LIC.

 

- A

if anything have the LIC-Hunterspoint be a shuttle to/from Jamaica or have it serve mostly Oyster Bay and Montauk trains

 

One problem: the DEs still can't go into Manhattan and the DMs can't fit into the Grand Central/63rd st tunnel. It would cause congestion to terminate and originate all diesels at Jamaica during rush hour if those stations were either closed hence why they do so at HPA/LIC. That being said, the shuttles would require more equipment (either diesel or electric since HPA and LIC have 3rd rail), and why waste that equipment when diesels already serve there?

[lilbluefoxie]

if catenary were to be built, then a connection would work, just like NJT does with the MNRR service to Secaucus/Meadowlands. But regardless, a GCT-NYP connection should still be built in case there is a problem in any of the tunnels and to allow GCT access to west side yard.

 

 

 

As a Port Jeff rider, couldn't agree more. Ditto for the DEs

 

 

 

 

One problem: the DEs still can't go into Manhattan and the DMs can't fit into the Grand Central/63rd st tunnel. It would cause congestion to terminate and originate all diesels at Jamaica during rush hour if those stations were either closed hence why they do so at HPA/LIC. That being said, the shuttles would require more equipment (either diesel or electric since HPA and LIC have 3rd rail), and why waste that equipment when diesels already serve there?

 

What i mean is, instead of having the Oyster Bay trains end in Jamaica, send em all the way to Long Island city, perhaps reopen the closed stations along lower montauk to improve access in that area

[metsfan]

One problem: the DEs still can't go into Manhattan and the DMs can't fit into the Grand Central/63rd st tunnel. It would cause congestion to terminate and originate all diesels at Jamaica during rush hour if those stations were either closed hence why they do so at HPA/LIC. That being said, the shuttles would require more equipment (either diesel or electric since HPA and LIC have 3rd rail), and why waste that equipment when diesels already serve there?

 

Hunterspoint would be closed, train crews & yard workers going to/from sunnyside access sunnyside yard via new station servicing that location. What pax equipment that LIRR runs can't go into NYP exactly & why?

 

What i mean is, instead of having the Oyster Bay trains end in Jamaica, send em all the way to Long Island city, perhaps reopen the closed stations along lower montauk to improve access in that area

 

Great idea.

 

It's a pretty reasonable conclusion that the existing and to-be-created tunnels will get fixed point catenary, as well as 3rd rail that alternates sides vs one long electrified barrier. Putting in overhead wire now will eliminate the need for service interruptions for it to be installed, as it will be needed at some point, either by emergency or other service changes or connection to ARC.

 

- A