(C) To Lefferts Boulevard-Ozone Park; (A) To Mott Avenue-Far Rockaway

[EE Broadway Local]

Why do some want the extended to Lefferts Boulevard-Ozone Park and the reduced to Mott Avenue-Far Rockaway?

 

Maybe I'm wrong but here are faults I see with this:

* The will stay local after Euclid Avenue.

* The will be reduced to every 12/16 minutes on weekdays and every 20/24 minutes on weekends unless service from Mott Avenue is boosted.

* Liberty Avenue riders heading for Brooklyn and Manhattan will likely change for the at Rockaway Boulevard.

* With a train at 10 minutes and an train at 12/16 minutes, only the three station section between Rockaway Boulevard and Euclid Avenue would see a train every 5.5/7.5 (average) on weekdays; every 9.5/11.5 minutes (average) on weekends.

 

Am I off target here?

[Grand Concourse]

You should continue using an existing thread than to start up a new one.

[BroadwayBuffer]

If it were to be changed ... it would be assuming that trains which currently run out of 207 St/Manh would terminate at Mott Av or Rockaway Pk. headways should remain the same or close to it. I don't see a problem with riders changing for the if they want an express. There are numerous other places in the system which have similar situations. New Lots riders have to change at Utica or Franklin Av if they want an express and riders have to change for the if they want express. In all of these cases it's only a few stops. I don't see the big deal with the "one-seat ride" nonsense.

[EE Broadway Local]

You should continue using an existing thread than to start up a new one.

Thanks, Grand Concourse; I didn't see something similar in the pop-up box.

[KTrainExp]

I see one potential fault with this. Until the gets more trains, I think this idea should be voided. The ©'s tph is terrible already and moving it would probably increase a few extra minutes of waiting time.

[Novabus 5000]

HELL NO.

[Kingsbridge Bus]

Maybe if the line gets newer cars then this might be okay.:confused:

[Grand Concourse]

What difference will newer cars make? That doesn't change anything.

[NX Express]

Newer cars do't change anything.

 

Here's what will happen:

 

The old Lefferts trainsets will be split between the (Extra 4-5 TPH) and the Far Rock .

[lilbluefoxie]

what about the pre 1992 configuration, to Rockaway Park, to Lefferts or Far Rockaway and during late nights

[NX Express]

As some T/Os and C/Rs have said, that to Rockaway Park would be suicide. Also, there is not that much demand anymore.

[Grand Concourse]

Agreed, leave it as Shuttle only and rush hour A trains.

[EE Broadway Local]

Could Far Rockaway use additional service? That is, if the were bumped to, say, 10 minutes rush hours, 12 minutes middays and 15/20 minutes weekends to compensate for only one service, would it be utilized at stations between Mott Avenue and Howard Beach-JFK?

 

The present schedule has the no closer than 12 minute headways.

[2Line1291]

I do see what's the point of running the to Lefferts since it runs local even though its a pain to figure out which train is running to either Lefferts or Far Rockaway. In my fantasy map http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=188865&postcount=10 I have the run express in Brooklyn.

[NX Express]

@2Line1291- I've seen descriptions of the Fulton Line as "severely underutilized". I, personally, don't think it needs two expresses.

[MAA89]

It doesn't matter that the riders will tend to transfer to the at Rockaway Boulevard. If more trains are sent to the Rockaways (say, about 12 TPH rush hours peak direction), as opposed to the current 5-7, the current number of Rockaway riders will be distributed over a larger number of trains, and there should be ample room on the train to accommodate the Lefferts riders and those getting on at Fulton St stations. It might not be a "one-seat ride", but the chances of getting a seat are not that bad.

 

They could keep sending 5 or 6 trains to and from Lefferts Boulevard, and send the present 6 or 7 trains to the Lefferts branch, so effective headway at Lefferts will still be no more than 5 minutes. This has the unfortunate consequence that train headways cannot be shortened without additional cars.

 

I have suggested increasing service in the past, but I realize that if all the Lefferts riders get off at Rockaway Blvd, then ridership will not increase and it is a waste of cars to increase frequency from the current 6 TPH. On the other hand, on the trip towards Lefferts Blvd, riders would need to get off at Rockaway Blvd and wait a significant length of time for the .

 

This is why my current proposal is:

 

1) Send more (but not all) trains to the Rockaways, in proportion to the ridership; i.e. the Rockaways line (both branches + JFK/Aqueduct/BC) has 6 million riders and Lefferts 3.3 million. About two-thirds of the trains should go there. Thus, out of 17 trains leaving 207th St between 3:59 and 4:57pm, at least 11 (or 12) trains should go to the Rockaways, and the remaining 5 or 6 to Lefferts.

 

2) Keep the at 6 TPH, but send it to Lefferts to compensate for lost service.

 

This model:

 

1) Doesn't deprives Lefferts riders of service altogether, just proportions service based on ridership numbers.

 

2) Compensates for the change in train service with service, ensuring 11-12 TPH during rush hours in the peak direction, thus keeping headways to a minimum.

 

I know I will lose support from the Fulton St local station users by not improving the , but I guess you cannot please everyone.

 

It is my experience that with the current pattern, up to 35-40% of travel time is spent waiting for the right train at the station. My current proposal will allow Lefferts riders to get to their stations without too long a wait at Rockaway Blvd (assuming they aren't already on a or a Lefferts-bound train), and let Rockaway riders get their fair share of service and reduce the 12-16 minute rush hour headways that so bothers us now.

 

Rockaway Park service should remain as it is. It can be annoying that they run one Rockaway for every two trains that reach Broad Channel (once every 20 minutes or so), meaning that half the time one will get off the first and have to wait 15-18 minutes for the next one to come and go before the shuttle comes in, but that is a sacrifice one has to make (I use the shuttle frequently too, I accept that there are sometimes long waits). Of course, during evening rush hours a few trains do go to Rock Park, so the effective headway for Rock Park service is then 10 minutes. Unless the western part of the Rockaways increases in population, the current pattern is justified. Besides, you can take the Q21 or the Q53 if you do not like the shuttle.

[NX Express]

However, with all that, rename the Lefferts the to avoid tourist confuzzling: Does this go to JFK? Does this go to JFK? Does this go to JFK? Does this go to JFK?

[2Line1291]

Something like the but isnt skip stop and goes to Mott Ave and the goes to Lefferts.

[MAA89]

However, with all that, rename the Lefferts the to avoid tourist confuzzling: Does this go to JFK? Does this go to JFK? Does this go to JFK? Does this go to JFK?

 

Actually that is a good idea. Thus, the service pattern for the Fulton St lines should be (rush hour peak direction):

 

1) 11 or 12 TPH to/from Far Rockaway/Rockaway Park.

 

2) 5 or 6 TPH to/from Lefferts Boulevard.

 

3) 6 TPH to/from Lefferts Boulevard.

 

Also, with so many express trains, Fulton St local riders wouldn't have to wait too long at an express station platform for an or train. Their only issue will be the wait for the local, which is a very predictable 10 minutes, so they can plan their trip to reduce the wait at the local station.

 

See, everyone's ideas can be accommodated (except those of Ozone Park politicians;)).

[NX Express]

Precisely. And everybody wins!

Note to self: yet another idea for the Fantasy Map Version 3.0!

[2Line1291]

Precisely. And everybody wins!

Note to self: yet another idea for the Fantasy Map Version 3.0!

 

Oh oh.....another fantasy map on the way.

[NX Express]

How dare you insult my maps!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[2Line1291]

:cool: I dont have nothin to hate about you or anybody fantasy maps. I dont why you feel insulted.

[MAA89]

Oh oh.....another fantasy map on the way.

 

Unlike other ones, this would have at least one practical idea.

[2Line1291]

This arrangement could actually make use of R160s or upcoming R179s since the and would swap cars @ 207th St - something similar to how the and @ Ditmars Blvd and the and @ Flatbush Ave.