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Forest Glen

The Express Bus: A Vital Service or an Unnecessary Luxury?

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Agreed. Only those routes that operate 7 days a week/ or with high ridership should run middays with 1-hour headways. There no need to run buses especially like all of the Bronx/Yonkers express routes like BXM1 BXM2 BXM3 BXM10 BXM11 with 30-minute headways middays during.

 

a) Only the X1 and BXm7 should have 30 minute headways 10am-3pm weekdays and Saturdays. Sundays both of these routes should run every hour imo.

 

You can't just go writing off service because you think no one rides them. You need to actually take a trip out to Staten Island, see the routes for themselves and then come up with an idea. The X1 has it's current 12-15 minute headways for a reason and it's called DEMAND! The X1 still runs every 15 minutes after 12AM weekdays because it's a high ridership route. I have never been on an X1 that didn't have a crowd by the time it hits the expressway/tunnel.

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Take it from an X1 rider (on average), that bus sees use whenever it runs.

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You can't just go writing off service because you think no one rides them. You need to actually take a trip out to Staten Island, see the routes for themselves and then come up with an idea. The X1 has it's current 12-15 minute headways for a reason and it's called DEMAND! The X1 still runs every 15 minutes after 12AM weekdays because it's a high ridership route. I have never been on an X1 that didn't have a crowd by the time it hits the expressway/tunnel.

 

 

Yes if you read the thread carefully i said outside of the X1 and BXM7 Coop City the highest Manhattan express bus routes in the (MTA) family i never said 1 hour headways. I even called for those 2 routes to have 24-hour/7 day week/365 day a year service.

 

All i said was the X1 midday service should be decreased to every 20-30 minutes, I never said 1-hour headways for the X1 except for late evenings on weekends. I meant to say most of the other routes Queens-Manhattan, Manhattan-Bronx and Manhattan-Brooklyn buses that run weekday between 10am-2pm and on weekends such as the X27/28, BM1, 2 and 3 should be every hour.

 

In addition the X10 and X17 also run all day as well so some X1 riders can also use those routes as well especially in Grasmere(X17) and Eligtnville TC. (X17)

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Tell me how long will they finish completing the the T line from 125 down by Hanover Sq? The 4, 5, 6 lines are 2 to 3 long blocks away, 1st and 2nd Avenues have the market of M15 which has the largest ridership.

 

The Q60 have the other hand competes directly to the Queens Blvd line and the Flushing line. Q60 does not need the fancy SBS, they need Limited Stops.

 

 

 

 

You gotta be kidden if living under the rock. The Q60 SBS is going to be a joke, you still competing with the subways that run along most of the line. Q60 Limited would be a good idea. There are better candidates for SBS in Queens other than Q60.

Uh, +SBS+ is just a glorified version of a limited.

 

Don't think of a Limited Q60 as competition to the subway (which is severely overcrowded already), but as an alternative. Yes, it may not be as fast as the subway, but surprisingly not everyone is in a big rush, but looking to at least get where they need to go without a big hassle.

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Totally agreed ^

Not to mention there are older people/riders with leg problems that would have difficulty going down and up the stairs.

 

The subway needs all the help it can get even if it's just a handful.

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Uh, +SBS+ is just a glorified version of a limited.

 

Don't think of a Limited Q60 as competition to the subway (which is severely overcrowded already), but as an alternative. Yes, it may not be as fast as the subway, but surprisingly not everyone is in a big rush, but looking to at least get where they need to go without a big hassle.

 

Q60 is not even that crowded on other hours. The main problem is the scheduling and it needs short turns more fequently.

 

Totally agreed ^

Not to mention there are older people/riders with leg problems that would have difficulty going down and up the stairs.

 

The subway needs all the help it can get even if it's just a handful.

 

Then call Access A Ride.

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But why? That's even bigger waste of money if those people can get to their destination by bus. Why strain resources for AAR for like at most 2-3 people per van?

 

I don't understand why you are so against SBS for the Q60. I mean what's the big deal? If you are so against SBS then have a limited stop Q60 then.. yesh.

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But why? That's even bigger waste of money if those people can get to their destination by bus. Why strain resources for AAR for like at most 2-3 people per van?

 

I don't understand why you are so against SBS for the Q60. I mean what's the big deal? If you are so against SBS then have a limited stop Q60 then.. yesh.

 

Uh, you wrote: "older people/riders with leg problems that would have difficulty going down and up the stairs". Then dont ride the subway, use Access-A-Ride or local buses; thats the only choice of transportation.

 

Read my comment again on the SBS. I already mention Limited stops would be better suited then spending tons of money SBS stuff.

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The thing that surprised me is that some routes like the X22 on Staten Island had high ridership, but still had a high cost to operate. It is a waste to have 2half-empty buses running right next to each other. For example, at Avenue K at Ocean Avenue, costs could be saved if riders from the BM3 and 4 switched to the BM1, instead of running all 3 to the same exact points in Manhattan. Yes, I know that this would take away that one-seat ride into Manhattan that makes express buses so attractive and that is why it can't be done, but I am just saying that that is a reason why those buses are so expensive to run.

 

As far as my thoughts on express buses in general, they are beneficial in places with long commutes, but really shouldn't run where there are parallel subway lines with similar commute times. For example, the X22 goes from Tottenville, Staten Island to Midtown, and can be a half hour shorter than taking a train all the way to the ferry, taking the ferry across, and transferring to a subway. That is why there are no express routes in Downtown Brooklyn. Buses directly parallelling subway lines should be considered for elimination. Other examples are Eastern Queens, southeast Brooklyn, and parts of the northern Bronx, where access to Manhattan involves a long trip with a bus to subway transfer.

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BM4 can already be cut entirely when Kings Highway on the B/Q lines have elevators. Riders can just take the B31 to the subway stop.

 

The BM3 basically mirrors the B49 and turns at Cortelyou road and riders could just take the Q there. But easily the BM3 riders should take the B49 to Av K to take the BM1, whatever bus they take will make all stops anyway. If it isn't enough, then they can make a B101 and run that in place of the BM3 and turn it on Ocean Av where the B23 turns.

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I think the BM4 should be cut completely. The MTA service cut guide says "Recent Change" as a reason for not cutting it. What change was made?

 

Also, I discovered the BxM6, which makes all of 3 stops before going express to Manhattan on a 7-day schedule. As all 3 stops are close to Parkchester <6>, is this route really needed? I don't think so, but the MTA ridership charts show a mixed picture.

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The thing that surprised me is that some routes like the X22 on Staten Island had high ridership, but still had a high cost to operate. It is a waste to have 2half-empty buses running right next to each other. For example, at Avenue K at Ocean Avenue, costs could be saved if riders from the BM3 and 4 switched to the BM1, instead of running all 3 to the same exact points in Manhattan. Yes, I know that this would take away that one-seat ride into Manhattan that makes express buses so attractive and that is why it can't be done, but I am just saying that that is a reason why those buses are so expensive to run.

 

As far as my thoughts on express buses in general, they are beneficial in places with long commutes, but really shouldn't run where there are parallel subway lines with similar commute times. For example, the X22 goes from Tottenville, Staten Island to Midtown, and can be a half hour shorter than taking a train all the way to the ferry, taking the ferry across, and transferring to a subway. That is why there are no express routes in Downtown Brooklyn. Buses directly parallelling subway lines should be considered for elimination. Other examples are Eastern Queens, southeast Brooklyn, and parts of the northern Bronx, where access to Manhattan involves a long trip with a bus to subway transfer.

 

hah... b/c ppl that live along the x22, are snobs... it's the high property valluuezzz...

nah, I'm kidding (I'm in a joking type of mood today, don't know why)

 

as to why x22's had a high a cost that it did/does... well, think about the distance from Tottenville to midtown manhattan (fuel costs).. and how frequent it runs throughout the day (compared to the "usual suspects", I'll call em - {the x1's, x10's, x17c's of the world})...

 

I know I sound like a broken record w/ the BM4, but I also agree w/ GC on that note....

 

I see what you're saying w/ the shifting of riders... another possibility is, If there's a demand for express bus ridership along that part of nostrand av (between Av K & Av X), then maybe considering combining that into the BM3's scheduling; as to where you'd either have a BM3 down Ocean or down Nostrand, to get to Sheepshead would trim some fat... not much, but... some...

This way, you'll have your unique BM1 riders, your unique BM3 riders (of which are boarding along nostrand, or along ocean)... there would be less bm3 runs down nostrand, than there are currently bm4 runs.... BM4 wouldn't exist.

 

 

Regardless, Good post btw.

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I'm not anti-express bus either. I do not advocate eliminating all express buses nor do the vast majority of busfans. I only advocate eliminating express bus routes that directly mirror subway lines, have low ridership, or have an unjustifiably low farebox recovery ratio.

 

To Be Honest, We Need More Express Bueses in Negihborhoods that don't get any service, Express Buses would Take more than 20 Cars Off The road, So I am not Agansit Express Buses, I rode the X1, Loved It, I don't care what I take As long as I get to where I got to go.

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BM4 can already be cut entirely when Kings Highway on the B/Q lines have elevators. Riders can just take the B31 to the subway stop.

 

The BM3 basically mirrors the B49 and turns at Cortelyou road and riders could just take the Q there. But easily the BM3 riders should take the B49 to Av K to take the BM1, whatever bus they take will make all stops anyway. If it isn't enough, then they can make a B101 and run that in place of the BM3 and turn it on Ocean Av where the B23 turns.

 

Today I saw a BM4 heading from Manhattan at Church and McDonald Avenues and the bus was dead empty. So what's the hierarchy, if the bus doesn't pick anyone up does it simply deadhead back to the depot?

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BM4 can already be cut entirely when Kings Highway on the B/Q lines have elevators. Riders can just take the B31 to the subway stop.

 

The BM3 basically mirrors the B49 and turns at Cortelyou road and riders could just take the Q there. But easily the BM3 riders should take the B49 to Av K to take the BM1, whatever bus they take will make all stops anyway. If it isn't enough, then they can make a B101 and run that in place of the BM3 and turn it on Ocean Av where the B23 turns.

 

Compromise: BM4, rush hour peak only. BM3, weekday only. Take it or leave it.

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The thing that surprised me is that some routes like the X22 on Staten Island had high ridership, but still had a high cost to operate. It is a waste to have 2half-empty buses running right next to each other. For example, at Avenue K at Ocean Avenue, costs could be saved if riders from the BM3 and 4 switched to the BM1, instead of running all 3 to the same exact points in Manhattan. Yes, I know that this would take away that one-seat ride into Manhattan that makes express buses so attractive and that is why it can't be done, but I am just saying that that is a reason why those buses are so expensive to run.

 

As far as my thoughts on express buses in general, they are beneficial in places with long commutes, but really shouldn't run where there are parallel subway lines with similar commute times. For example, the X22 goes from Tottenville, Staten Island to Midtown, and can be a half hour shorter than taking a train all the way to the ferry, taking the ferry across, and transferring to a subway. That is why there are no express routes in Downtown Brooklyn. Buses directly parallelling subway lines should be considered for elimination. Other examples are Eastern Queens, southeast Brooklyn, and parts of the northern Bronx, where access to Manhattan involves a long trip with a bus to subway transfer.

 

This is the first rational post in this entire thread. Thank you. The BxM11 parallels the (2). However, the (2) is known for being pokey and overcrowded. How about the BxM11 run rush hour only?

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To Be Honest, We Need More Express Bueses in Negihborhoods that don't get any service, Express Buses would Take more than 20 Cars Off The road, So I am not Agansit Express Buses, I rode the X1, Loved It, I don't care what I take As long as I get to where I got to go.

 

Thank you. Express bus haters are oblivious to the positive benefits of express buses.

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Compromise: BM4, rush hour peak only. BM3, weekday only. Take it or leave it.

 

Is that a compromise or an ultimatum**? BM4 is a waste period. BM3 could be replaced by a 'B101' that picks up riders along the BM3 segment and then drops them off at Courtelyou Road for the BM1 and BM2. Cutting the BM3 and BM4 would make the BM1 and BM2 exclusively D4500s and you can even boost service on those lines. There's no point in running all 5* lines that are just partially full.

 

 

*I stand by my opinions on the BM5 and I'm not repeating it.

 

**And why are you still worked up over it? It's not like I mentioned anything about Queens which affects you. Even other posters here that lives in Brooklyn agree the Bm4 is a waste.

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If it means you stop complaining about express buses then you can cut the BM4. It is the least used out of all the SC routes. However, leave the BM3 alone. That's where I draw the line. The BM3 serves an isolated part of Sheepshead Bay.

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It's only isolated because nothing else serves it. The area served by the BM4 is also isolated but also served by the B31. So why do BM3 riders there get special treatment? It's not like a transfer is going to kill them. Run CNG 05s exclusively on this B101 so the ride to Cortelyou is 'comfortable'. Who made you the express bus advocate?

 

I stop complaining about wasteful express buses? How about you and everytime there's a fare hike for the MTA? Cuts have to be made somewhere.

You can't b*tch about fare hikes, while at the same time advocating keeping express bus service as more or less status quo. More cuts overall is needed.

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