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Forest Glen

The Express Bus: A Vital Service or an Unnecessary Luxury?

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I've tried to be reasonable. I agree that the BM4 shouldn't be a 7 day route. I've seen the empty BM4's on weekends and weekday middays. In fact, the BM4 makes other express bus routes look bad since express bus haters often use this route as an example of how express buses waste money. I wouldn't shed a tear if the BM4 was eliminated.

 

The BM3, on the other hand, had decent ridership. Weekend service can be cut (in fact, the only SC express route that needs weekend service is the BM2). I'm willing to compromise. Why can't it simply run during rush hour? (the B101 proposal is idiotic) It irritates me when express bus haters talk about eliminating entire routes that people use. If one express bus route gets eliminated then that'll start a trend in which express bus routes are systematically eliminated every time there's a budget problem. One by one the express bus routes will be gone until all that's left is the X1, QM1A, and BxM7. Even then express bus haters will complain.

 

All I'm asking for is that the BM3 has 14 runs-8 heading to the city in the morning and 6 returning to Brooklyn in the PM. I'm sure the MTA won't lose millions of dollars doing that. I think that's reasonable.

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You will never trim the fat like that.

 

[the B101 proposal is idiotic]

 

And again what is wrong with consolidation? Why run buses that are not even filled? The MTA is bleeding money and yet you still say running partially filled buses to satisfy a small ridership's comfort as more important than to cut waste?

 

This goes to show you would rather stick it to us subway riders with 'rat filled stations' just to let elitists get their one seat ride to the city. And again would it kill anyone to have to 'god forbid' transfer to another bus? If they don't like it, then they can just drive. They should be grateful to have service at all. Nowhere does it state express bus riders are entitled to one seat rides or soft seated buses. They are spoiled with the D4500s when there are routes that would be best off with only the O5s.

 

So no, you think what you want to think. I at least have not outright stated "all express routes to be cut", so save your outbursts for those others on the other board.

 

And one final thing, I don't understand your love affair with express buses when you yourself stated you can't even afford it anymore. So why the hell are you still adamant about preserving such routes that you probably don't ride on a daily basis? This is Brooklyn, not even Queens. Why are you getting so worked up about preserving a line that has no affect on you?

This is not even like the F via 63rd St thing that affects you.

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You will never trim the fat like that.

 

[the B101 proposal is idiotic]

 

And again what is wrong with consolidation? Why run buses that are not even filled? The MTA is bleeding money and yet you still say running partially filled buses to satisfy a small ridership's comfort as more important than to cut waste?

 

This goes to show you would rather stick it to us subway riders with 'rat filled stations' just to let elitists get their one seat ride to the city. And again would it kill anyone to have to 'god forbid' transfer to another bus? If they don't like it, then they can just drive. They should be grateful to have service at all. Nowhere does it state express bus riders are entitled to one seat rides or soft seated buses. They are spoiled with the D4500s when there are routes that would be best off with only the O5s.

 

So no, you think what you want to think. I at least have not outright stated "all express routes to be cut", so save your outbursts for those others on the other board.

 

And one final thing, I don't understand your love affair with express buses when you yourself stated you can't even afford it anymore. So why the hell are you still adamant about preserving such routes that you probably don't ride on a daily basis? This is Brooklyn, not even Queens. Why are you getting so worked up about preserving a line that has no affect on you?

This is not even like the (F) via 63rd St thing that affects you.

 

Do you even bother to read my responses or do you simply repeat the same false statements over and over?

 

I tried to meet you halfway and say eliminate weekend and midday express bus service on the SC routes (with the exception of the BM2). The QM4 and BxM6 would also only run rush hour peak. I also advocated the elimination of the underutilized routes express bus routes like the QM22, BxM18, and the X20. I proposed consolidating the QM3 and X51. All of these ideas would save money while hurting the least amount of people. Overall express bus service would drop 50% since only a handful of routes would run outside of rush hour.

 

However, that's not enough for the express bus haters. Every time they see a bunch of relaxed and happy people riding a comfortable express bus to the city the express bus haters become irritated. Express bus haters think, "my commute sucks so let me ruin the commutes of express bus riders". Eliminating express buses is nothing more than class warfare. It's done under the false premise that express bus riders are these rich elitists. I've used the express bus for three years while I attended college. I've talked to express bus riders and B/O's. Many of them work long hours and simply want to relax on a comfortable bus before and after work. Some of them are near retirement age and can't deal with overcrowding and walking up stairs in a subway station. I've posted articles about express bus riders. None of them are corporate lawyers, brain surgeons, or CEO's. They're average people.

 

I can understand the disdain for the BM4 since it is underutilized and it runs in an area saturated with express bus routes. However, people use the BM3. I think you just look at a map and randomly pick express bus routes to eliminate without actually having a knowledge of the route. Once again, I'm proposing the elimination of offpeak express bus service (with a few exceptions) and the elimination of underutilized express bus routes. I'm trying to meet you halfway but enough is enough.

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I'm going to say this once: FG, you seriously need to stop with this "express bus hating" thing, or else no one is going to take you seriously.

 

Some express routes don't even run full at all, especially on weekends. TBH, even the "well-used" routes would be best off running Orion 5s because sometimes, the express buses are reduced to SRO capacity, and standing on the express buses are a hassle as it is; there's really nothing to hold on to at all. This is why I feel that some of the express bus routes in Staten Island, specifically the Hylan Boulevard routes (X1-9) should be consolidated into seven routes (becomes X1-7) and have them run artics to increase the number of passengers the routes would handle, that is, whenever Charleston opens. Just reconfigure the seating into suburban-style seating (the padded seats may not even be necessary but if that were done it's no biggie).

 

Judging from what I saw yesterday (it was around 6:30 when I saw this btw), the BM4 looks like it's not even needed on weekends; weekend passengers could just use the B31 to the (Q) train at Kings Highway during this time. I won't say that it should be reduced to a peak-hour route just yet because I haven't seen the bus on weekdays, but the MTA should look at reducing SOME (notice I didn't say "cut") express bus service slightly so as to not impact subway service which riders use by far WAY more than express buses.

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FG, the problem today is cost and subsidy...and the numbers do not lie; express routes are budget-busters and the MTA needs to cut somewhere. If not there, where?

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FG, the problem today is cost and subsidy...and the numbers do not lie; express routes are budget-busters and the MTA needs to cut somewhere. If not there, where?

 

 

Being fair, AEmoreira, Mr. Wilson aka FG if you read his 'book' aka long winded comments has proposed canning routes such as Weekend X27/28 and reducing lines like the BM4 and QM4 to a rush hour only routes.

 

I do agree Mr Wilson needs to calm down as well, since the Queens express routes are not on the chopping block and don't worry about what others on this board aka the so called 'express bus haters' say:confused:. Other than maybe one or two people, who i don't think knows the need for outerboro express buses imo, nobody as far as i know on this NYCTF site, has called for the total end of outerborough express buses.

 

Many of the posters on this topic i read including Concourse and others, I believe have instead called for the end of most or all non-rush hour express buses(except for the busy X1 10 X17 and BXM7 routes) which sadly during this economic crisis needs to be looked at. :confused::)

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Just a hunch or guess on this one Mr. Wilson, but i am 98% sure the reason the BM4 runs all day weekdays and Saturdays is sadly politics. The Gerristean Beach area is represented by State Senator Carl Kruger who is Brooklyn's senior and most powerful Brooklyn Democratic Party Rep in the State Senate. About 10 years ago, i read when the NYC DOT tried to reduce the BM4 to rush hour only when it operated as Command aka former private bus lines Kruger got i think 50,000 pentions to save the line. I don't think Gerristean has 50,000 people lol. Sorry i don't have the link since it occured a while ago now.;)

 

As B35 is correct in saying, politics is the 2nd biggest factor, besides money in what bus/subway routes the (MTA) decides to cut or even expand.:)

The BM4 running as frequent as it does probably is great example imo where a mostly upper middle class neighborhood with a powerful City Council/Albany member getting the breaks while others do not.:mad:

 

 

Do you even bother to read my responses or do you simply repeat the same false statements over and over?

 

I tried to meet you halfway and say eliminate weekend and midday express bus service on the SC routes (with the exception of the BM2). The QM4 and BxM6 would also only run rush hour peak. I also advocated the elimination of the underutilized routes express bus routes like the QM22, BxM18, and the X20. I proposed consolidating the QM3 and X51. All of these ideas would save money while hurting the least amount of people. Overall express bus service would drop 50% since only a handful of routes would run outside of rush hour.

 

However, that's not enough for the express bus haters. Every time they see a bunch of relaxed and happy people riding a comfortable express bus to the city the express bus haters become irritated. Express bus haters think, "my commute sucks so let me ruin the commutes of express bus riders". Eliminating express buses is nothing more than class warfare. It's done under the false premise that express bus riders are these rich elitists. I've used the express bus for three years while I attended college. I've talked to express bus riders and B/O's. Many of them work long hours and simply want to relax on a comfortable bus before and after work. Some of them are near retirement age and can't deal with overcrowding and walking up stairs in a subway station. I've posted articles about express bus riders. None of them are corporate lawyers, brain surgeons, or CEO's. They're average people.

 

I can understand the disdain for the BM4 since it is underutilized and it runs in an area saturated with express bus routes. However, people use the BM3. I think you just look at a map and randomly pick express bus routes to eliminate without actually having a knowledge of the route. Once again, I'm proposing the elimination of offpeak express bus service (with a few exceptions) and the elimination of underutilized express bus routes. I'm trying to meet you halfway but enough is enough.

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That last post out of Forest Glen is one of the better posts I've seen out of him, regarding express bus service.... he raised some good points there too...

 

The avg. express bus rider isn't some high-fallooting, 6 figure making, white collar worker... BM2 riders are a good example of this... it travels through lower middle class areas almost throughout it's run in Brooklyn, and it still gets decent amt. of ridership, compared to other expresses throughout the city..... The 6 figure dude would not be caught DEAD on ANY form of public transportation... So I do believe that is an assumption of those who haven't been on an express bus before... and I'm here to tell those people such an assumption is absolutely FALSE.

 

Anyway, don't worry about meeting people halfway... your stance is your stance.

The only question you have to answer (to yourself) is, is it accurate enough, or is it based off some bias/favoritism.

 

I don't try to convince ppl. to change their opinion... I post what I know (or have seen & experienced) when it come to these things... not one to sit & judge a route if I only been on it 5,4,3,2,1 time (S).... i.e, When I say the BM4 should be cut:

 

- obviously, it's my opinion, mta won't consider it b/c I said so... lol...

- I ponder the unique amt. of people that use that route past Av K/Ocean (the point where it diverges from the BM3) & south of Av K/Nostrand (the point it diverges from the BM1... where it's a standalone express route)... and I'm saying it's low enough to the point where it doesn't need to be its own route.... If its usage were stronger in Gerritsen Beach (and along Nostrand), then maybe we can talk about making the BM4 a rush hour only route....

 

Otherwise, the BM1 & the BM3 can pick up w/e riders there are, along Av. K & along Ocean... that is what we're (well, lemme speak for myself right now... what I) am saying....

- the BM4's usage along Nostrand is fair... its usage along Gerritsen is rather poor

 

^^ There's no way I can come to those conclusions w/o having been on BM4's (plural)... sure, I can attempt to pull it out of my a**, but people can tell what's BS, and what might have a ring of truth to it.... Aside from that, yeh, I do think that there are people that base their opinions solely off what they depict on a map (mta, inclusive)...

 

For me to sit here & say the BM1, 2, or 3 should be cut, knowing the ridership levels that I have seen on each those routes, would be nothing short of negatively, biased... or as FG likes to put it "express bus hating"....

 

 

The QM4 should be a rush hour only route b/c ppl. in Electchester (and points along the route before it) actually USE the service... matter fact, a good portion of its riders ride it to the last stop (just short of the HHE there)... I do agree that there's no need for most the off peak runs it currently has.....

 

I'm not one of those folk who think all express bus service should stay, and I'm not one of those folk that say all express bus service should go.... I'm not even on the fence about it... I break things down on a case by case (route by route) basis (again, judging by what I seen/experienced on multiple occasions, over time [not just what occurs in a week, or a month or what have you])... and I will say, there are a bevy of buses (runs) throughout the express bus system (5 boroughs) that can be taken off the road... Absolutely no reason in having buses in-service run empty, or w/ about a handful of people on it... that goes for local bus service as well.....

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Guest Charles

 

The avg. express bus rider isn't some high-fallooting, 6 figure making, white collar worker... BM2 riders are a good example of this... it travels through lower middle class areas almost throughout it's run in Brooklyn, and it still gets decent amt. of ridership, compared to other expresses throughout the city..... The 6 figure dude would not be caught DEAD on ANY form of public transportation... So I do believe that is an assumption of those who haven't been on an express bus before... and I'm here to tell those people such an assumption is absolutely FALSE.

 

:tup::tup:

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Some express routes don't even run full at all, especially on weekends. TBH, even the "well-used" routes would be best off running Orion 5s because sometimes, the express buses are reduced to SRO capacity, and standing on the express buses are a hassle as it is; there's really nothing to hold on to at all. This is why I feel that some of the express bus routes in Staten Island, specifically the Hylan Boulevard routes (X1-9) should be consolidated into seven routes (becomes X1-7) and have them run artics to increase the number of passengers the routes would handle, that is, whenever Charleston opens. Just reconfigure the seating into suburban-style seating (the padded seats may not even be necessary but if that were done it's no biggie).

 

Judging from what I saw yesterday (it was around 6:30 when I saw this btw), the BM4 looks like it's not even needed on weekends; weekend passengers could just use the B31 to the (Q) train at Kings Highway during this time. I won't say that it should be reduced to a peak-hour route just yet because I haven't seen the bus on weekdays, but the MTA should look at reducing SOME (notice I didn't say "cut") express bus service slightly so as to not impact subway service which riders use by far WAY more than express buses.

 

This is a fair compromise. Thank you for being reasonable and rational.

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FG, the problem today is cost and subsidy...and the numbers do not lie; express routes are budget-busters and the MTA needs to cut somewhere. If not there, where?

 

What's wrong with simply cutting a few runs here and there? Why do entire routes have to be eliminated?

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This is a fair compromise. Thank you for being reasonable and rational.

 

No problem.

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I'm going to say this once: FG, you seriously need to stop with this "express bus hating" thing, or else no one is going to take you seriously.

 

Some express routes don't even run full at all, especially on weekends. TBH, even the "well-used" routes would be best off running Orion 5s because sometimes, the express buses are reduced to SRO capacity, and standing on the express buses are a hassle as it is; there's really nothing to hold on to at all. This is why I feel that some of the express bus routes in Staten Island, specifically the Hylan Boulevard routes (X1-9) should be consolidated into seven routes (becomes X1-7) and have them run artics to increase the number of passengers the routes would handle, that is, whenever Charleston opens. Just reconfigure the seating into suburban-style seating (the padded seats may not even be necessary but if that were done it's no biggie).

 

Judging from what I saw yesterday (it was around 6:30 when I saw this btw), the BM4 looks like it's not even needed on weekends; weekend passengers could just use the B31 to the (Q) train at Kings Highway during this time. I won't say that it should be reduced to a peak-hour route just yet because I haven't seen the bus on weekdays, but the MTA should look at reducing SOME (notice I didn't say "cut") express bus service slightly so as to not impact subway service which riders use by far WAY more than express buses.

 

Thank you. Just because I say maybe the BM3 should be cut and he thinks I'm an 'express bus hater'. He just can't handle the thought of cutting a route like it's cutting an arm off or something. It's like he lives in that area of Brooklyn or something.

 

And fine reading B35's post I guess cutting the BM3 won't be such a good idea, but as he said the ridership is around Av K. The Bm1 runs the same segment. BM3 is highly used because it's the only bus serving that area before it merges onto Ocean Av with the B49. As I said, will it kill anyone to have to TRANSFER? Just because a person pays a fare for the express bus, it DOES NOT give them a right to a one seat ride or soft seats.

Hell like the subways, you'll need to transfer at some point as there are no multiple trains running on the same line [like a 2 train going to: 242nd, 148th and 241st and all coming from Flatbush Av].

The LIRR you'd need to transfer at Jamaica Av to get a specific train to go to either Flatbush Av or Penn Station. And if I'm coming from the Port Jeff line, I'm going to have to get off the DE30 pulled train for an M7. Should I complain that for what I paid I don't get a 1 seat ride too?

 

Maybe if they had a local bus line serving their area like Gerritsen and the B31, riders can just take the local to the subway instead? I mean maybe that's why the BM4 is so useless, riders have the B31 to take them to Kings Highway to take the subway.

 

Freeing up some buses from a defunct route can allow those buses to boost service on other routes. Cut waste in one area and boost service in another to pick up the slack. It's all about saving money.

 

Why should i have to compromise with what FG thinks? He never compromises about the DC Metro being better than NYCT partisan posts or the hatred of the R32s [when R42s had just as loud if not worse squeeling brakes], F via 63rd and shafting Roosevelt Island.

My opinion is my opinion. And again I never outright said cut all express routes. So I don't get the 'hating part'. That's delusional right there. It's clear he should take it up with certain posters at subchat since he can't let the 'hating go'.

 

 

But I'll end with this: Fine at first cut back the runs like cut 1-2 buses per hour. Afterwards they should still look into seeing what lines needs further adjustments. But as is now, there's too much waste and it needs to be fixed. And I'd rather express buses that can be serviced by other bus lines be cut than to cut local bus lines that have no back ups in the immediate area. That's why I say target the express bus routes first then the rest of the local buses and subways.

Edited by Grand Concourse
add a final sentence

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Why should i have to compromise with what FG thinks? He never compromises about the DC Metro being better than NYCT partisan posts or the hatred of the R32s [when R42s had just as loud if not worse squeeling brakes], (F) via 63rd and shafting Roosevelt Island.

My opinion is my opinion. And again I never outright said cut all express routes. So I don't get the 'hating part'. That's delusional right there. It's clear he should take it up with certain posters at subchat since he can't let the 'hating go'.

 

I'm not discussing the (F) via 63rd. That's a red herring issue that was mentioned by someone who didn't have a valid counter-argument

 

R32's are no longer on the (E) so that's a moot point

 

What does the DC Metro have to do with express buses?

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What's wrong with simply cutting a few runs here and there? Why do entire routes have to be eliminated?

It might just be a waste to keep writing the word BM4 everywhere, or...

Freeing up some buses from a defunct route can allow those buses to boost service on other routes. Cut waste in one area and boost service in another to pick up the slack. It's all about saving money.

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I'm not discussing the (F) via 63rd. That's a red herring issue that was mentioned by someone who didn't have a valid counter-argument

 

R32's are no longer on the (E) so that's a moot point

 

What does the DC Metro have to do with express buses?

 

Since it was brought up let's discuss these three a bit:

 

First, the (F) via 63rd: well, my friend made a very valuable assessment stating that most residents from Long Island get off at Jamaica - 179th Street and for those who need the (6), they have to amke a transfer to the (E). However, they could take the (R) or the (V) if need be; if you ask me, taking the (R) would be a better choice because t riders can change for an express at Lexington Avenue. If you want to make the (V) more useful, send eight of the ten rush hour trains to 179th Street. If anything, at least ten minutes will be added on to their commute but at least riders who use Hillside will have direct access to the 53rd Street corridor again.

Second, the R32s on the (E): To this day, I don't know why in god's name the R160s went to the (E) first, or even on the (E) at all. It would be senseful to put SOME R160s on the (E) but if anything the (F) should have received them first, because of the fact that it's a long line. Again, if anything else, the (R) should be 2/3rds R160s with the rest R46s as well as the (F), and the (E) should get more of the R46s and whatever R160s are left over.

As for the DC Metro, I really don't know jack about that transit system but please stop comparing the two. If you ask me, their transit system has nothing on the MTA's; our system is 24/7; only two stations are closed on weekends, and because it's a bigger system, we are going to have to accept the inevitable and just deal with it.

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I'm not discussing the (F) via 63rd. That's a red herring issue that was mentioned by someone who didn't have a valid counter-argument

 

R32's are no longer on the (E) so that's a moot point

 

What does the DC Metro have to do with express buses?

 

And what does the London system have to do with the DC Metro that you keep bringing up?

 

Did you ignore everything I stated or just picked out one paragraph because you still can't get over cutting a route?

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Since it was brought up let's discuss these three a bit:

 

First, the (F) via 63rd: well, my friend made a very valuable assessment stating that most residents from Long Island get off at Jamaica - 179th Street and for those who need the (6), they have to amke a transfer to the (E). However, they could take the (R) or the (V) if need be; if you ask me, taking the (R) would be a better choice because t riders can change for an express at Lexington Avenue. If you want to make the (V) more useful, send eight of the ten rush hour trains to 179th Street. If anything, at least ten minutes will be added on to their commute but at least riders who use Hillside will have direct access to the 53rd Street corridor again.

Second, the R32s on the (E): To this day, I don't know why in god's name the R160s went to the (E) first, or even on the (E) at all. It would be senseful to put SOME R160s on the (E) but if anything the (F) should have received them first, because of the fact that it's a long line. Again, if anything else, the (R) should be 2/3rds R160s with the rest R46s as well as the (F), and the (E) should get more of the R46s and whatever R160s are left over.

As for the DC Metro, I really don't know jack about that transit system but please stop comparing the two. If you ask me, their transit system has nothing on the MTA's; our system is 24/7; only two stations are closed on weekends, and because it's a bigger system, we are going to have to accept the inevitable and just deal with it.

 

I'm not commenting on 63rd Street or the DC Metro. 63rd Street is a controversial issue and I really don't feel like revisiting that drama. That has nothing to do with this topic. GC only brought it up because he knew I made a valid argument and he didn't have a logical response to it.

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I'm not commenting on 63rd Street or the DC Metro. 63rd Street is a controversial issue and I really don't feel like revisiting that drama. That has nothing to do with this topic. GC only brought it up because he knew I made a valid argument and he didn't have a logical response to it.

 

Oh pleez, not again with this bullship!

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Freeing up some buses from a defunct route can allow those buses to boost service on other routes. Cut waste in one area and boost service in another to pick up the slack. It's all about saving money.

Your message is a noble one... but....

 

If I took a run off the BM4 & added it to the BM3, I'm not saving money...

If I took a run off the x20 & added it to the x11, I'm not saving money...

If I took a run off the QM4 & added it to (whatever Queens exp. route ppl say needs more service), I'm not saving money....

If I took a run off the BxM6 & added it to the Bxm7, I'm not... saving... money.

 

 

As I said, will it kill anyone to have to TRANSFER? Just because a person pays a fare for the express bus, it DOES NOT give them a right to a one seat ride or soft seats.

 

Ouch.

This sounds like you DO have it out for express bus riders....

 

But I'll end with this: Fine at first cut back the runs like cut 1-2 buses per hour. Afterwards they should still look into seeing what lines needs further adjustments. But as is now, there's too much waste and it needs to be fixed. And I'd rather express buses that can be serviced by other bus lines be cut than to cut local bus lines that have no back ups in the immediate area. That's why I say target the express bus routes first then the rest of the local buses and subways.

Quite frankly, this shouldn't be a matter of firsts & seconds... in the end, whether an express bus route is gone or a local bus is gone, it doesn't make a bit of difference as to which got the axe first.... If they're talking about cutting local service first, so be it.... If they're talking about cutting express bus service first, again, so be it....

 

Distributive (or commutative) property, my friend....

 

If I save $500,000 today, and 20,000 tomorrow,

OR

If I save $20,000 today, and 500,000 tomorrow..... I still save 520,000 over the course of two days....

 

 

GC only brought it up because he knew I made a valid argument and he didn't have a logical response to it.

Deflection....

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Some express routes don't even run full at all, especially on weekends. TBH, even the "well-used" routes would be best off running Orion 5s because sometimes, the express buses are reduced to SRO capacity, and standing on the express buses are a hassle as it is; there's really nothing to hold on to at all. This is why I feel that some of the express bus routes in Staten Island, specifically the Hylan Boulevard routes (X1-9) should be consolidated into seven routes (becomes X1-7) and have them run artics to increase the number of passengers the routes would handle, that is, whenever Charleston opens. Just reconfigure the seating into suburban-style seating (the padded seats may not even be necessary but if that were done it's no biggie).

 

Judging from what I saw yesterday (it was around 6:30 when I saw this btw), the BM4 looks like it's not even needed on weekends; weekend passengers could just use the B31 to the (Q) train at Kings Highway during this time. I won't say that it should be reduced to a peak-hour route just yet because I haven't seen the bus on weekdays, but the MTA should look at reducing SOME (notice I didn't say "cut") express bus service slightly so as to not impact subway service which riders use by far WAY more than express buses.

 

Yep... only buses I ever notice run full (or pretty.. darn... close to it) on the weekends are the x1's, 10's and 17c's...

 

I'm sure someone else mentioned this before on here, but.... the Bronx has WAAYYY too much weekend bus service (and I'm not only talking about the much talked about BxM1 & 2).... going and coming... worse/moreso than either Queens or Brooklyn... but yeah, those are MTABus routes and blah blah blah....

 

x27 & x28 weekend service should be cut DRASTICALLY... I know whenever someone mentions politics, ppl think "ah, this guy's resorting to conspiracy theories again".... I guess ppl. will have to put me on that boat b/c I don't see a justifiable reason in hell that there is any NEED for any one express bus (singular... literally... ONE) out of Ulmer park to run on Sundays.... I dare a Sunday express bus rider on one of those routes to tell me otherwise....

 

as far as consolidating express bus service on Hylan blvd somehow.... I never liked the fact on how service is split up the way it is, regarding the x1-x9...

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Look, if fares were more like $10, then they have every right to a one seat ride. I'm just saying no one is entitled to a 1 seat ride nor comfort.

 

And express buses do not pick up any more riders than what it carries to Manhattan, on a local bus you have people getting on and off constantly. And the local bus also makes all stops going in the other direction than to either run empty or stay in Manhattan for use for the PM rush. It does make a difference in the long run.

 

And about the deflection part, yes - I agree. It means 'a lot' coming from a person that comments on only pics of buses that runs on express routes [MCIs or O5 CNGs].

At least with you - you are unbiased and I can take your word for it as someone who has no favoritism for express bus routes.

 

I'll leave it at this before this turns into a flame war.

 

PM me if you wish to continue.

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This isn't turning into no flame war...

Don't take any of this to heart, man... it's healthy discussion.

 

And express buses do not pick up any more riders than what it carries to Manhattan, on a local bus you have people getting on and off constantly. And the local bus also makes all stops going in the other direction than to either run empty or stay in Manhattan for use for the PM rush. It does make a difference in the long run.

bro...

I fail to see the point you're trying to make with this.

 

What does that have to do with getting rid of express buses first, over local buses? What makes a difference in the long run?

 

It's common knowledge that local buses are utilized more than express buses....

 

 

Regarding comfort & all that, I'll get back to you in a PM, as you wish... I do have some questions in mind for you, before I erroneously jump to conclusions...

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Yep... only buses I ever notice run full (or pretty.. darn... close to it) on the weekends are the x1's, 10's and 17c's...

 

You said it...take it from a rider who uses the X1 and X10 routes on occasion.

 

I'm sure someone else mentioned this before on here, but.... the Bronx has WAAYYY too much weekend bus service (and I'm not only talking about the much talked about BxM1 & 2).... going and coming... worse/moreso than either Queens or Brooklyn... but yeah, those are MTABus routes and blah blah blah....

 

x27 & x28 weekend service should be cut DRASTICALLY... I know whenever someone mentions politics, ppl think "ah, this guy's resorting to conspiracy theories again".... I guess ppl. will have to put me on that boat b/c I don't see a justifiable reason in hell that there is any NEED for any one express bus (singular... literally... ONE) out of Ulmer park to run on Sundays.... I dare a Sunday express bus rider on one of those routes to tell me otherwise....

 

Agreed...looking at the schedule, the X27 and X28 run two buses an hour on weekends...the headways should be stretched to 45 minutes, if anything. I don't ride the X27/X28, nor have I ever rode the routes, but the bus routes parallel the (D) and (N) trains so if riders need to save their money, they will.

 

as far as consolidating express bus service on Hylan blvd somehow.... I never liked the fact on how service is split up the way it is, regarding the x1-x9...

 

That's something I need to look into as well.

 

Look, if fares were more like $10, then they have every right to a one seat ride. I'm just saying no one is entitled to a 1 seat ride nor comfort.

 

I'll have to disagree with you on that one...the express bus is a luxury service but $10...meh. $5.50 right now seems fine but just make the necessary trims to certain routes.

 

And express buses do not pick up any more riders than what it carries to Manhattan, on a local bus you have people getting on and off constantly. And the local bus also makes all stops going in the other direction than to either run empty or stay in Manhattan for use for the PM rush. It does make a difference in the long run.

 

And about the deflection part, yes - I agree. It means 'a lot' coming from a person that comments on only pics of buses that runs on express routes [MCIs or O5 CNGs].

At least with you - you are unbiased unlike him and I can take your word for it as someone who has no favoritism for express bus routes.

 

I'll leave it at this before this turns into a flame war.

 

PM me if you wish to continue.

 

Same here!

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I've tried to be reasonable. I agree that the BM4 shouldn't be a 7 day route. I've seen the empty BM4's on weekends and weekday middays. In fact, the BM4 makes other express bus routes look bad since express bus haters often use this route as an example of how express buses waste money. I wouldn't shed a tear if the BM4 was eliminated.

 

The BM3, on the other hand, had decent ridership. Weekend service can be cut (in fact, the only SC express route that needs weekend service is the BM2). I'm willing to compromise. Why can't it simply run during rush hour? (the B101 proposal is idiotic) It irritates me when express bus haters talk about eliminating entire routes that people use. If one express bus route gets eliminated then that'll start a trend in which express bus routes are systematically eliminated every time there's a budget problem. One by one the express bus routes will be gone until all that's left is the X1, QM1A, and BxM7. Even then express bus haters will complain.

 

All I'm asking for is that the BM3 has 14 runs-8 heading to the city in the morning and 6 returning to Brooklyn in the PM. I'm sure the MTA won't lose millions of dollars doing that. I think that's reasonable.

You should stop talking about "express bus haters" (of which there are none in this thread; Grand Concourse never said he wanted all express buses gone, just the lowly used ones...just like you did.) as if they have any more power over the retention or cutting of express bus routes than you do. In the end they don't and have the same ability to change the (MTA)'s mind about things as you. All we're doing here is talking about which low-use express buses should have their hours cut or be cut entirely. The only reason Grand Concourse and others are proposing some routes to be cut or have their hours reduced (he never said cut all express buses) is because their low ridership does not justify the level of service on the route.

I can understand the disdain for the BM4 since it is underutilized and it runs in an area saturated with express bus routes. However, people use the BM3. I think you just look at a map and randomly pick express bus routes to eliminate without actually having a knowledge of the route. Once again, I'm proposing the elimination of offpeak express bus service (with a few exceptions) and the elimination of underutilized express bus routes. I'm trying to meet you halfway but enough is enough.

That's all he's doing as well. The only reason he said to eliminate the BM3 is because he thinks it's a waste to run the BM3 and BM4 both half-empty when you can just run one service. Now I don't necessarily agree with his ideas (I can't really say anything about the BM3 because I've never seen a BM3 in my life) but if it is true that ridership on the BM3 is low, it can become a rush-hour only route or something. If it's not, then keep it.

Many of the posters on this topic i read including Concourse and others, I believe have instead called for the end of most or all non-rush hour express buses(except for the busy X1 10 X17 and BXM7 routes) which sadly during this economic crisis needs to be looked at. :confused::)

No one here is proposing eliminating all express buses. Not even eliminating all off-peak express buses. We're only looking at eliminating those with little use.

What's wrong with simply cutting a few runs here and there? Why do entire routes have to be eliminated?

Because cutting a few runs on every route isn't going to save as much money as desired. Plus, if you cut some runs on a heavily used route such as the QM1A then you are doing more harm than good. What we're trying to do here is cut the hours of certain express buses (no bias) with the least riders or with the most alternatives so that the (MTA) can save as much money as possible, while at the same time put as few people at a disadvantage as possible.

Look, if fares were more like $10, then they have every right to a one seat ride. I'm just saying no one is entitled to a 1 seat ride nor comfort.

I would have to disagree with that. I think your logic is that if they pay more, then that means they will be able to support the cost to the (MTA) of running express buses the way they do now. However, if enough cuts are made in the right places (affecting as few people as possible) then the fare won't have to go up that high.

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