B35 via Church Posted February 21, 2010 Share #176 Posted February 21, 2010 I think your logic is that if they pay more, then that means they will be able to support the cost to the of running express buses the way they do now. However, if enough cuts are made in the right places (affecting as few people as possible) then the fare won't have to go up that high. I saw that comment the exact same way.... I sincerely highly doubt that if the MTA were to raise the fare on express buses to 10 dollars, the same levels of ridership on EVERY express bus as they currently are now, would be maintained.... You don't raise fares 80% and expect the same amount of people to use the service... that's not rational or realistic. You raise the fare to 10 bucks right now, and there will be a drastic increase of lost ridership... If the goal of the MTA is to weed out express bus service, over time, well, then that would be a way to go about it.... You are wise beyond your years man..... Perfectly stated. (I think that's how that saying goes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted February 21, 2010 Share #177 Posted February 21, 2010 Again here my takes on reasonable cuts and adjustments. Citywide 1. Ulmer Park, Spring Creek and College Point should get rid most of the MCI Cross Country Buses. Reassign them to the Yukon and Castelton depots only. While the rest should be Sold them to (NJT) (Coach USA, Shortline) and other regional bus agencies. That alone saves the Tens of Millions. Buy newer buses and add soft cushion seats to the back. Can even be used on local buses as well such as subway shuttle/go service when needed. Routing changes ( i dont Queens that well so i wont comment much on that service) Brooklyn X27/28 End Sunday service. In addition run 27/28 Saturday service hourly between appx. 7am-11pm with last bus leaving Brooklyn around 6pm and last bus leaving Midtown at around 11pm. What not fair is that the X17c which has much more ridership on Saturdays combined than the X27/28 does not run on Sundays. X37/38 maintain this 'super express' aka FDR Drive service but reduce the hours opearting between 6am-730 am weekday mornings to Midtown and 4pm-630pm leaving Midtown. X29 shortened route to run between Surf Ave/West 5th(old B68 southern terminal)and 57th Street. In addition reduce hours of this service to run weekdays 6am-8am to Midtown and from 4pm-6pm with 30 minute headways. Terminating at Stillwell is redudant with the subways and the X28/38 imo. Also the Re routing of the BM1 and BM4 along a part of CI avenue should help. BM4 should be a rush hour only route imo to Manhattan AM and to Gerristean PM peak hours. BM5 Weekend service should be canned imo. Starret City residents can use the BM2 which would be extended weekends only. Spring Creek Service/Routing Change Run both the BM1 and BM4 along Coney Island Avenue between Beverly Rd/Church Ave and Avenue K. CI Ave riders for first time gets full time express bus service Monday-Saturday. The BM3 would be the only Manhattan 'express' route along almost the entire length of Ocean Ave and thus increasing ridership. Bronx BM2-This is another waste of a route on weekends imo. Most of the ridership here is seniors and they have an alternative 1-fare bus, 2-bus ride compared to the X27/28 from SW Brooklyn and the other Bronx express routes. Besides the subway with transfer from the Bx 7 and BX10 at the 231/Broadway stop that now ADA accesible, those BXm2 riders can also use the BX7 on weekends and transfer to the M2, M4, and M5 to get to Midtown and the west side. Weekend BM2 should be canned and if Riverdale Ave and Henry Hudson Pwy/SPUYTEN DUYVIL riders still want want express service to Midtown they can use either the BM1 and transfer to a crosstown route or use the MNRR train at either the SPUYTEN DUYVIL or Riverdale stations as well. BXM4b-Should be a rush hour only. Replace it with expanded BXM4 to/from Kanotnah Ave hourly service at all times off peak (weekday midday and evening periods and all times weekends) Also Reroute the nearby BXm3 to serve portions of BXM4b riders who would lose service. BXM6-Should be a rush hour only peak direction route. All Other times the BXM11 stops at Unionport/Metro Oval area via East Tremont as replacement for Coop City residents. Bxm7/7a Merges on weekends making stops along the Bruckner Blvd service route between Coop City and White Plains/Bruckner. Manhattan X25-Should be canned years ago. Instead have the BXm18 or even the X90 stop near Grand Central as replacement. My takes guys as i ridden or busfanned all of the mentioned lines for years alot until i left the city 3 years ago. Reactions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3348 Posted February 21, 2010 Share #178 Posted February 21, 2010 Again here my takes on reasonable cuts and adjustments. Citywide 1. Ulmer Park, Spring Creek and College Point should get rid most of the MCI Cross Country Buses. Reassign them to the Yukon and Castelton depots only. While the rest should be Sold them to (NJT) (Coach USA, Shortline) and other regional bus agencies. That alone saves the Tens of Millions. Buy newer buses and add soft cushion seats to the back. Can even be used on local buses as well such as subway shuttle/go service when needed. I don't think the first choice with selling off the express buses and using that money to buy new suburban local buses will save any money at all. Used buses don't sell for as much as new ones, and new hybrid/CNG buses cost around the same amount if not more than a used MCI would. What I would do, is after restructuring routes systemwide, the 1997-99 MCI's that are deemed extraneous to service needs would be sold off to other agencies for extra money, as well as displace CNG's from express to local service (allowing other buses to be retired). After that, ~115 of CAS/YUK's 1997-2002 MCI's would be swapped for CP's ~115 2004-06 MCI's. This would result in less wear-and-tear on these aging buses (CP doesn't put much stress on their express buses other than the QM1/A) and would lower maintenance costs. In addition, College Point is getting part of the upcoming CNG order so this would balance out CP's fleet age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 21, 2010 Share #179 Posted February 21, 2010 Good to hear about the new CNG order. And I will retract my comment about the increased fare. My main point was that people have to transfer [LIRR, subways, local buses] why should it be different about the express buses? What's wrong with forcing buses headed to Manhattan to be at least 80-90% filled? Ie: consolidate. All I'm saying is to turn lower used lines into basically branches to feed the main lines so those buses can turn back to pick up more riders and stay in the borough. Then riders will still have their MCIs, but won't have an entire row to themselves. example: BM4 when it meets up with the Bm1 and Bm3, it will drop off riders to take those lines to go into Manhattan than run partially filled. SI - though I don't know the lines, I'm sure the X1 could really use extra buses from the lower used SI express routes. X1 needs more buses to run or as Leroy mentioned: convert artics to run as express. Anything below 70% full is a waste, is that so wrong to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted February 21, 2010 Share #180 Posted February 21, 2010 e X1 could really use extra buses from the lower used SI express routes. X1 needs more buses to run or as Leroy mentioned: convert artics to run as express. Um, Mr. CG, who is this "Leroy" that you speak of? How come I've never heard of this said "Leroy" and his take on express buses??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 21, 2010 Share #181 Posted February 21, 2010 can he be the same leeroy that's doing... this... Lmfao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 21, 2010 Share #182 Posted February 21, 2010 Lol, Lrg, my bad man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted February 21, 2010 Share #183 Posted February 21, 2010 Lol @ B35! And no probs...Phil Just poking some fun :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share #184 Posted February 21, 2010 And about the deflection part, yes - I agree. It means 'a lot' coming from a person that comments on only pics of buses that runs on express routes [MCIs or O5 CNGs]. At least with you - you are unbiased and I can take your word for it as someone who has no favoritism for express bus routes. I'll leave it at this before this turns into a flame war. PM me if you wish to continue. In my latest photo threads I've included pics of NG's. I've wasted space on photobucket that could've been used for my express bus pics (and I'm at 93% capacity. I'm going to have to pay for more space). I did all of that because I'm fair and impartial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share #185 Posted February 21, 2010 can he be the same leeroy that's doing... this... Lmfao Not to get O/T but Last Dragon was one of my favorite movies. Shon'uff was a bad@ss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share #186 Posted February 21, 2010 I saw that comment the exact same way.... I sincerely highly doubt that if the MTA were to raise the fare on express buses to 10 dollars, the same levels of ridership on EVERY express bus as they currently are now, would be maintained.... You don't raise fares 80% and expect the same amount of people to use the service... that's not rational or realistic. You raise the fare to 10 bucks right now, and there will be a drastic increase of lost ridership... If the goal of the MTA is to weed out express bus service, over time, well, then that would be a way to go about it.... You are wise beyond your years man..... Perfectly stated. (I think that's how that saying goes) A $10 fare was a veiled and malicious attempt to eliminate all express bus routes. Anyone who proposes that fare can't be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share #187 Posted February 21, 2010 I don't think the first choice with selling off the express buses and using that money to buy new suburban local buses will save any money at all. Used buses don't sell for as much as new ones, and new hybrid/CNG buses cost around the same amount if not more than a used MCI would. What I would do, is after restructuring routes systemwide, the 1997-99 MCI's that are deemed extraneous to service needs would be sold off to other agencies for extra money, as well as displace CNG's from express to local service (allowing other buses to be retired). After that, ~115 of CAS/YUK's 1997-2002 MCI's would be swapped for CP's ~115 2004-06 MCI's. This would result in less wear-and-tear on these aging buses (CP doesn't put much stress on their express buses other than the QM1/A) and would lower maintenance costs. In addition, College Point is getting part of the upcoming CNG order so this would balance out CP's fleet age. If this means the cessation of the anti-express bus agenda then I would support selling the MCI's and getting standard-sized buses for express bus routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 21, 2010 Share #188 Posted February 21, 2010 That would be a start - running standard buses. And please, save the 'anti-express bus agenda' nonsense. You're the one that's 'pro anything express buses'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted February 22, 2010 Share #189 Posted February 22, 2010 I would tend to agree with R32 3348's assessment that routes with especially bad cost recovery should be eliminated. The thing is-- With the exception of the X27 X28 BXM7 and perhaps BXM9, that is every single express bus line. That is not to say that certain local buses shouldnt also be eliminated. A few Staten Island local routes are also incredible wasters. If there is a reasonable alternative to any of these routes, they should also be eliminated or restructured. If there were any such subway lines, I would also support their elimination, although none come close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted February 22, 2010 Share #190 Posted February 22, 2010 In my latest photo threads I've included pics of NG's. I've wasted space on photobucket that could've been used for my express bus pics (and I'm at 93% capacity. I'm going to have to pay for more space). I did all of that because I'm fair and impartial. Okay, where are you going with this? You're saying that because of us you're wasting your photobucket space??? I really don't get it. We know you like MCIs and Orion 5s. Guess what? So do I, and I like RTSs and Orion 7 OG as well, yet I take pictures of the other buses I'm not so much a fan of, yet they make for a good photo opportunity. If this means the cessation of the anti-express bus agenda then I would support selling the MCI's and getting standard-sized buses for express bus routes. You don't get it...I said the same thing before: some routes can't handle MCIs because of the ridership. The ones that come into mind are the X1 and the X10. I haven't really taken these bus routes yet during rush hours in the peak direction (reverse peak and off-peak, many times) to witness this but the figures I've seen don't lie. That's why I strongly feel that with the opening of Charleston in Staten Island the nine buses that handle the Hylan Boulevard corridor should be consolidated into seven, and let the express routes run a mixed package of MCIs and the New Flyers (after seating reconfiguration)...yet that's just an opinion. However, with a mixed package of them riders know they won't have to wait for a bus that they can get a seat on. It would probably encourage riders to leave a little early to guarantee themselves a seat to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted February 22, 2010 Share #191 Posted February 22, 2010 I would tend to agree with R32 3348's assessment that routes with especially bad cost recovery should be eliminated. The thing is-- With the exception of the X27 X28 BXM7 and perhaps BXM9, that is every single express bus line. That is not to say that certain local buses shouldnt also be eliminated. A few Staten Island local routes are also incredible wasters. If there is a reasonable alternative to any of these routes, they should also be eliminated or restructured. If there were any such subway lines, I would also support their elimination, although none come close. Agreed 100%, especially on your first statement with the cost recovery, or how much it costs per person to run a bus. That's why I feel that the S60 should be done away with; there was a news article posted on the "other" board that stated that the cost per passenger on the S60 is six times more than the actual fare. I don't blame people crying over a loss of bus service, bur if another bus route were sent via Grymes Hills, then they wouldn't need to bicker. Do away with the S60 and have every other S93 bus serve Grymes Hill, the S53 serve Grymes Hill during off peak weekday hours under 20 minute intervals, and weekend service at 30 minute intervals. Consolidation of these routes come into play, and they should if the MTA wants to save money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 22, 2010 Share #192 Posted February 22, 2010 Actually running 'regular buses' [with modified seating] would be good for the purpose of interlining them [if I'm using that term correctly]. Basically once the express run is done, the bus can then be used for local service - sort of like what's done with the CP and SC depots and their CNG buses. Of course certain routes like the X1 should be exclusively artics as those can handle more riders. Worse comes worse, they could have back to back buses where two buses runs right behind the other. Even running 'skip stop' to pick up riders along the way to help 'speed up' the trips. But also yes, I wouldn't go that far in saying sell off all the D4500s, but keep them for the routes that REALLY needs them. Overall D4500s are still overkill for like 65-75% of the express routes in the city. Otherwise O5s can handle the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share #193 Posted February 22, 2010 Very well. This is better than eliminating express bus routes. I'm a reasonable person willing to compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted February 22, 2010 Share #194 Posted February 22, 2010 Wow a shock:eek:. Concourse and Mr Wilson aka Forest Glen 'agreeing' on something? What the world coming to, LMAO:tup:B):cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted February 22, 2010 Share #195 Posted February 22, 2010 Wow a shock:eek:. Concourse and Mr Wilson aka Forest Glen 'agreeing' on something? What the world coming to, LMAO:tup:B):cool: Lol not even, FG just needs to be more rational and stop thinking everyone's against him. The MCIs are assigned to only a certain routes, which are the express bus routes, and the ratio of the express routes to local routes are largely outnumbered, giving them "oddball" status, so why not use the local fleet for express service too instead of assigning MCIs as the special fleet for express routes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share #196 Posted February 22, 2010 I have absolutely no problems with the Orion V CNG (or even Orion VII NG's as long as they have suburban seating). The shorter express bus routes like the QM4, QM10, and X90 can use them. Not every express bus route needs MCI's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted February 22, 2010 Share #197 Posted February 22, 2010 I have absolutely no problems with the Orion V CNG (or even Orion VII NG's as long as they have suburban seating). The shorter express bus routes like the QM4, QM10, and X90 can use them. Not every express bus route needs MCI's. The BM4 and Saturday/off peak weekdays X27/28 should be added to this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share #198 Posted February 22, 2010 The BM4 shouldn't even run on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted February 22, 2010 Share #199 Posted February 22, 2010 The BM4 shouldn't even run on Saturday. I'm finally glad that you and I are on the same page somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted February 22, 2010 Share #200 Posted February 22, 2010 I'm finally glad that you and I are on the same page somewhat. Sorry to but in, but let's not start a flaming war. I'm not trying to blame you for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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