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bussman7338

#2/5 super super express(whiteplains rd)

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Hey just thinking..... I wonder why mta dose"nt have super express on the w.p.line from 241st/238st to gun hill then on to the east. What was the express platform at gunhill for?

:confused:

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Maybe there isn't a demand for it?:confused: I'd like to see it. I'd also like to see express service on the (5) Dyre Ave. line, but there probably isn't a demand for it.

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It also might be that having an express beyond E. 180th Street screws up service on the (2) and the Dyre (5).

 

About that <7> super-express...I'd either have go to Grand Central or take the local (7) all the way to Main Street :). I've ridden on the Mets express though, and it is pretty fast.

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It also might be that having an express beyond E. 180th Street screws up service on the (2) and the Dyre (5).

 

About that <7> super-express...I'd either have go to Grand Central or take the local (7) all the way to Main Street :). I've ridden on the Mets express though, and it is pretty fast.

Thats right let me rephrase.Super <7> express from Grand Central to Main Street.:tup:

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Im a (2)(5) rider and live near it, its not about having Express service but the demand.. And i belivie this has been discussed a lot of times..

 

(2) Needs to stay Local due to High Demand south of E180th for 7th Avenue service...

(5) runs express during Rush hour Peak, AM to Manhattan from 180th to The Hub and back during PM

 

<5> via WPR also runs express on the sothern secition of the WPR (180th down)..

 

MOST <5> continues express North of 180th Street and end at Gun Hill Road to have str8 access to E239th St yd, during PM...

 

Most Midday (5) runs Express from 149th to 180th and end there..

 

Express from 238th to Gun hill is not needed since its used for direct access to the Yard, just incase trains need to be delayed there becuz of rearrangement..

 

Maybe there isn't a demand for it?:confused: I'd like to see it. I'd also like to see express service on the (5) Dyre Ave. line, but there probably isn't a demand for it.

 

A demand has nothing to do with a train running express in certain locations. It just means special express service for the PELHAM <6> and FLUSHING <7>

 

 

BTW wrong forum!

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Im a (2)(5) rider and live near it, its not about having Express service but the demand.. And i belivie this has been discussed a lot of times..

 

(2) Needs to stay Local due to High Demand south of E180th for 7th Avenue service...

(5) runs express during Rush hour Peak, AM to Manhattan from 180th to The Hub and back during PM

 

<5> via WPR also runs express on the sothern secition of the WPR (180th down)..

 

MOST <5> continues express North of 180th Street and end at Gun Hill Road to have str8 access to E239th St yd, during PM...

 

Most Midday (5) runs Express from 149th to 180th and end there..

 

Express from 238th to Gun hill is not needed since its used for direct access to the Yard, just incase trains need to be delayed there becuz of rearrangement..

 

 

 

A demand has nothing to do with a train running express in certain locations. It just means special express service for the PELHAM <6> and FLUSHING <7>

 

 

BTW wrong forum!

LOL I just noticed that.Fail.B)

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I would love to have the <5> Run local between Nereid and Gun Hill then Express to 180th..(people at 180 should want this too so they have a better chance of a seat) then express to 3rd Av....That would also take some of the load off the (2) as more people along WPR (btw Nereid and Gun Hill) would just wait for the faster <5>....Gun Hill to 180th the (2) is adequate enough for those stops.

 

The MTA should try testing it with a few <5> say like 3-4 am South Bound and 3-4 pm Northbound trips, See if it would work.

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Two different northern terminals (Dyre Av on the normal, Nereid Av for rush hours), and three different southern terminals (E. 180th late nights, Bowling Green weekends and nights, Brooklyn College midday and rush hours) unless some wants to count Utica Av and New Lots for limited rush hours.

 

Dyre Av wants Lexington service while all 20 stations along the White Plains El majority wise wants 7th Av service, but some (5) trains go to 239th St Yard and (2)(5) swap trains. In my opinion, split the (5) into 2 seperate lines. The regular (5) (supplemental stepchild of the (2)) from Nereid Av to Brooklyn College and the original Dyre Av (9) from Dyre Av to Bowling Green.

(2) Bronx Local to Wakefield-241st

(5) Bronx EXP to Nereid Av

9 Bronx Local to Dyre Av

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Or you could just use the (8), I know the GC S is called the '8', but I think there should be a green (8) on the rollsign and that should be used for the 5 to 238th.

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It don't matter what number the line is going to Dyre Av or 238th; when the economy gets back on its feet, splitting the (5) would be a help.

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Or you could just use the (8), I know the GC S is called the '8', but I think there should be a green (8) on the rollsign and that should be used for the 5 to 238th.

 

It's really the (0).

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It don't matter what number the line is going to Dyre Av or 238th; when the economy gets back on its feet, splitting the (5) would be a help.

 

Are you sure? With only 3 tracks on the WPR.. I don't think so...

 

Two different northern terminals (Dyre Av on the normal, Nereid Av for rush hours), and three different southern terminals (E. 180th late nights, Bowling Green weekends and nights, Brooklyn College midday and rush hours) unless some wants to count Utica Av and New Lots for limited rush hours.

 

Dyre Av wants Lexington service while all 20 stations along the White Plains El majority wise wants 7th Av service, but some (5) trains go to 239th St Yard and (2)(5) swap trains. In my opinion, split the (5) into 2 seperate lines. The regular (5) (supplemental stepchild of the (2)) from Nereid Av to Brooklyn College and the original Dyre Av (9) from Dyre Av to Bowling Green.

(2) Bronx Local to Wakefield-241st

(5) Bronx EXP to Nereid Av

9 Bronx Local to Dyre Av

 

Or we can just forget adding a 3rd route.. The WPR is full enough, adding a 3rd will make it worst. Just look at AM Rush hour service how the Lex line is so slow.. It causes back ups including the WPR around Prospect Avenue. Forcing some (5) to reroute via 7th Avenue when a EM problem occurs on Lex...

 

The extra <5> via White Plains *road* is just for access to/from 239th yd and also adds Lex service on White Plains Road. And most pm trains already go Express from 180th street/morris pk avenue to gun hill/wpr... And End there..

 

If you want to renumber it, instead of <5> to another, then i guess that may be fine, as long as its the same amount of (5) train cars like the normal 238th. But remember, passangers will get confused.. And may complant.

 

Also there are 3 Official terminals(northern): E180th during early midday via WPR Exp, 238th during peak rush, Dyre(all times)

 

1 unofficial terminal(MOST pm trips), East Gun Hill road on White Plains Road, limited... via WPR Express from 180th to Gun Hill. This is for direct access to yard.

 

Southern Terminals: Flatbush/Nostrands Aves, Bowling Green,180tth Street and some pm trips to/from New Lots and Utica

 

 

 

____________________________

 

 

I would love to have the <5> Run local between Nereid and Gun Hill then Express to 180th..(people at 180 should want this too so they have a better chance of a seat) then express to 3rd Av....That would also take some of the load off the (2) as more people along WPR (btw Nereid and Gun Hill) would just wait for the faster <5>....Gun Hill to 180th the (2) is adequate enough for those stops.

 

The MTA should try testing it with a few <5> say like 3-4 am South Bound and 3-4 pm Northbound trips, See if it would work.

 

You should read what i posted on page 1...............

Trains can't go express from 238th to Gun Hill because that M track is for direct access to 239th street and if rearrangements were to occur in the yard, such as car movement, trains would stall in M track, just like the (3) uses when it goes for a car wash..

 

Also, there is NO junction south of 238th street to the M track, only north of it...

 

Of course, it would be nice to start express service of the <5> via WPR from Gun Hill to 149th street, but again its about demand, not what anyone or even Railfans wants bro.

 

I wonder if Trainmaster<5> can add to this topic, since he works with the WPR, hes good..

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It don't matter what number the line is going to Dyre Av or 238th; when the economy gets back on its feet, splitting the (5) would be a help.

 

Not sure how much the economy has to do with things*, but the 5 is really two lines just like the A. What is needed is to rename one branch as another number/letter. And that's that.

 

* maybe costs to add the extra logo and announcements? :shrugs:

 

It's really the (0).

 

0 from a distance might look like a Q. But why a 0? There's the 8 and 9 numbers that are unused right now.

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I'm going to chime in here with a few points and corrections. The (5) and the 3rd Ave El used 241 St as a terminal way back when. Even before my time LOL. The Lexington Ave Thru-EXP ran from 241 St WPR, making stops at Gun Hill Road, East 180th St, and on to 149th St-3rd Ave. The line was not known as the <5> in those days, just Lex-White Plains. The 3rd Ave Thru-Exp ran from 241 St to Gun Hill lower and then down the 3rd Ave line to Manhattan. What's now known as the (2) ran from Bronx Park-180th St terminal, not the East 180th St of today, to South Ferry or Brooklyn making local stops from West Farms-E. Tremont Ave. It joined with 2nd Ave El trains which terminated at Freeman St which is why the tower and switches were located there. First the 2nd Ave El was torn down and the 3rd Ave line was truncated to Bronx only service from 3rd Ave-149th St to Gun Hill Road. The Board of transportation purchased the line which now we call Dyre and ran shuttle service from Dyre to the platforms located east of the present East 180th St station. The old Bronx Park terminal was torn down in the '50's and 7th Ave service was instituted when the Dyre line was connected to the existing tracks at East 180th St. The (2) ran from Dyre to New Lots. The (2) and (5) swapped northern terminals in the '60's. The reason you still have <5> service on the WPR segment during rush hours is because of demand and political pressure. Most people who use that service came from Westchester county or the northern Bronx and work(ed) on the East Side. First you cut off access from the lower Bronx to the East Side when the Second Ave El was torn down Then you cut their 3rd Ave Thru-exp when the line was cut back to the Bronx. These people have clout and vote so when the (2) and (5) swapped terminals service STILL had to be provided for these people, hence the <5> service. The changing demographics in the lower part of the Bronx in the '70's and 80's didn't help either. The service is what it is because of the " squeaky wheel syndrome". As far as terminals go the (5) has Dyre Avenue and Nereid Ave in the north and Bowling Green and Flatbush Ave-Brooklyn College in the south as the main terminals. Weekday rush hours add Crown Heights-Utica Ave and New Lots Ave to the mix. Weekends are Dyre and Bowling Green. G.O.s add Grand Central, Brooklyn Bridge and 149th St Grand Concourse to the mix. Hope this helps some. As far as the historical service patterns go, nycsubway.org has more info.

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Thank you for coming out sir lol.

 

But East 180th Street is still a northern terminal for the (5) for early AM Midday service, but just for yard access. So it also counts i guess..

 

Also, since you mentioned 2nd avenue EL, at Freeman street more then 6 years ago i remember between that station at E174th street on southern blvd they had a Junction for Local and M tracks, was those tracks related to the 2nd Avenue EL as well? And how did the 2nd avenue el get on the WPR El tracks, if it did..

 

 

I'm going to chime in here with a few points and corrections. The (5) and the 3rd Ave El used 241 St as a terminal way back when. Even before my time LOL. The Lexington Ave Thru-EXP ran from 241 St WPR, making stops at Gun Hill Road, East 180th St, and on to 149th St-3rd Ave. The line was not known as the <5> in those days, just Lex-White Plains. The 3rd Ave Thru-Exp ran from 241 St to Gun Hill lower and then down the 3rd Ave line to Manhattan. What's now known as the (2) ran from Bronx Park-180th St terminal, not the East 180th St of today, to South Ferry or Brooklyn making local stops from West Farms-E. Tremont Ave. It joined with 2nd Ave El trains which terminated at Freeman St which is why the tower and switches were located there. First the 2nd Ave El was torn down and the 3rd Ave line was truncated to Bronx only service from 3rd Ave-149th St to Gun Hill Road. The Board of transportation purchased the line which now we call Dyre and ran shuttle service from Dyre to the platforms located east of the present East 180th St station. The old Bronx Park terminal was torn down in the '50's and 7th Ave service was instituted when the Dyre line was connected to the existing tracks at East 180th St. The (2) ran from Dyre to New Lots. The (2) and (5) swapped northern terminals in the '60's. The reason you still have <5> service on the WPR segment during rush hours is because of demand and political pressure. Most people who use that service came from Westchester county or the northern Bronx and work(ed) on the East Side. First you cut off access from the lower Bronx to the East Side when the Second Ave El was torn down Then you cut their 3rd Ave Thru-exp when the line was cut back to the Bronx. These people have clout and vote so when the (2) and (5) swapped terminals service STILL had to be provided for these people, hence the <5> service. The changing demographics in the lower part of the Bronx in the '70's and 80's didn't help either. The service is what it is because of the " squeaky wheel syndrome". As far as terminals go the (5) has Dyre Avenue and Nereid Ave in the north and Bowling Green and Flatbush Ave-Brooklyn College in the south as the main terminals. Weekday rush hours add Crown Heights-Utica Ave and New Lots Ave to the mix. Weekends are Dyre and Bowling Green. G.O.s add Grand Central, Brooklyn Bridge and 149th St Grand Concourse to the mix. Hope this helps some. As far as the historical service patterns go, nycsubway.org has more info.

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Thank you for coming out sir lol.

 

But East 180th Street is still a northern terminal for the (5) for early AM Midday service, but just for yard access. So it also counts i guess..

 

Also, since you mentioned 2nd avenue EL, at Freeman street more then 6 years ago i remember between that station at E174th street on southern blvd they had a Junction for Local and M tracks, was those tracks related to the 2nd Avenue EL as well? And how did the 2nd avenue el get on the WPR El tracks, if it did..

 

The 2nd Ave El terminated at Freeman St and relayed at the switches you mentioned. It came out of the middle at Freeman St and proceeded s/b to Jackson Ave. At Jackson Ave it diverged from the (newer) subway and ROSE UPWARD over the present n/b track and connected with the 3rd Ave El south of 149th St elevated station. The structure is still there south of Jackson Ave. If you ride a s/b (2) or (5) train the route is still visible before the train goes underground. This was known as the Bergen Bypass. There is a one story building still standing which stood under the bypass tracks. There used to be a signal tower on the n/b side around Brook Ave which controlled the interlocking but it was torn down in the early '80's after it caught fire.BTW to answer the original posters question the only reason the <5> thru-exp makes all stops heading s/b from 238th St is because the ridership up there demanded it. People at 225th St or Pelham Parkway, for example, wanted that one seat ride so the train makes local stops up there although that was not the original plan. All Bronx IRT lines have the capacity for express service but the ridership clamored for the proverbial one seat ride so those tracks are not fully utilized to their full potential these days. Sort of like the BMT Sea Beach line. The early am-midday ??? trains that terminate at E. 180th St are n/b trains that are not needed after the rush so they get pulled off and put in the yard there. There are NO regularly scheduled pm trains that terminate at Gun Hill Road. The dispatcher at Unionport tower will tell a train to terminate there if there is congestion btwn Gun Hill Road and 238th St and run a few trains up the middle track to Gun Hill Road and have them terminate there. When that segment of the line is tied in to the ATS system the rail control center wil make that determination so that probably won't be happening any more.

Edited by Trainmaster5
correction

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