w8Hou Posted April 4, 2010 Share #1 Posted April 4, 2010 Unkindest cuts! Boro subways and buses are slashed by the MTA Cuts approved last week by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority will especially sting Brooklyn — where service will be slower, less frequent, and more crowded. In total, the agency said that the cuts will save $93 million. MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz said the agency determines net savings by tallying costs associated with operating a particular line, such as salary, gas, and maintenance. Lowlights of the agency’s most austere plan in 30 years include: • The (M2) train, which previously shuttled riders from Essex Street in Manhattan and Bay Parkway during the rush hour, will be eliminated entirely. • Express bus lines in Williamsburg, Downtown and Bay Ridge will have their weekend service slashed, or be eliminated entirely. • A bus line in Bay Ridge will be reorganized. • Bus lines through Downtown, Red Hook, Park Slope, Prospect Heights, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill and Windsor Terrace will be reorganized, forcing straphangers to add an extra transfer to complete some trips — or hoof it. • A bus line that connects Kensington to Borough Park will be eliminated entirely. • A bus line connecting Homecrest and Marine Park to the Kings Plaza shopping mall will no longer operate on weekends. Taken together, there’s a lot of pain to go around. Here’s how it shakes down in your neighborhood: Downtown The B51, which travels over the Manhattan Bridge from Downtown Brooklyn will go the way of other mass transit dodos come June 27, when the cuts take effect. Eliminating the B51 is expected to save the agency $800,000, and the line’s 900 weekday customers would be required to take the , , , or train to complete their journey. The decision to cut the line will affect riders like senior citizen Victoria Venlow, who said she takes the B51 simply because she must, as subway stations present too great of a challenge. “I can’t take the steps,” the 72-year-old Brooklyn Heights resident said. “The bus is a savior to me.” Marvin Wasserman, the executive director of the Brooklyn Center for Independence of the Disabled, will no longer see travellers — many of whom he recognizes — waiting for the B51, whose stop is outside his Downtown office. “Many of our people are unable to use subway service and the only way they have of getting into Manhattan is by public transportation,” he said. Flatbush Riders in Kensington and Flatbush will feel the pain when the B23, which knifes through the heart of Borough Park along 16th Avenue, to Cortelyou Road, is taken out of commission entirely. Approximately 1,580 weekday riders and 1,240 weekend customers will be forced to take the B8 or the B16, increasing travel times a staggering 15 minutes. According to the agency, the average weekday ridership on a city bus line is 12,000 customers. “We looked at lines at far below average in trying to make an effort to affectas few people as possible,” Ortiz said. Kensington resident Rabbi Aaron Schenker called the B23 an vital link between contiguous neighborhoods, and points south, like Kings Plaza mall at Flatbush Avenue and Avenue U. “This is an important route,” he said. “It looks almost superfluous, but it’s not.” Schenker added that “golden agers” on their way to doctor’s appointments and students travelling to school rely on the line. “The school children have no other way to go — but I just wish they’d be a little quieter when they speak on the bus.” The cut is expected to yield $1.2 million in savings, the agency said. Red Hook Bus lines rumbling through Red Hook, and throughout brownstone Brooklyn in general, will see a good deal of restructuring — and in one case, outright elimination, saving the agency a total of $3 million. The segment of the B75 between Downtown Brooklyn and the Smith-Ninth Street and -trains station will be replaced with an extension of the B57, a line that connects Queens to Downtown. And the portion of the B75 that travels from Smith–Ninth to 20th Street and Prospect Park West will be replaced with the B61/B77, a newly combined route that connects Downtown to Red Hook. The 550 weekday riders of the B75 who travel past the Smith-Ninth street station will be required to transfer to complete their journey, or take the or trains. Jo Anne Simon, a disability rights attorney and political activist, said the agency’s thinking doesn’t take into account those who can’t take the subway — particularly not a station like Smith-Ninth, the tallest in the system, and absent of elevators. “Subways aren’t accessible for lots of people,” she said. Red Hook resident Andrea McKnight said the elimination the B75 “makes no sense,” and predicted “chaos” on the B77 which is already filled to capacity with workers going to IKEA or other jobs in the neighborhood, during rush hour, and will likely see more commuters come the summer. Even before the changes are implemented, she’s at her wit’s end. “What happens if people stop using the buses and just strike?” she wondered. Cobble Hill Meanwhile, the B71, a line that travels from Cobble Hill to the borough’s cultural hub along Eastern Parkway, would be eliminated entirely, and 1,080 weekday and 1,210 weekend customers would be required to walk to other nearby bus routes, the plan states. Park Slope The B69, which shuttles riders from Windsor Terrace to Downtown, will be rerouted south of Flatbush from Eighth Avenue/Prospect Park West to Seventh Avenue following the path of the B67, to Cortelyou Road. The frequency of the B67, which connects Kensington to Downtown using McDonald Avenue, and the B69 would be reduced, so that with both routes on Seventh, customers traveling to the and subway station would see the same number of buses they see today. Weekday hours on the B69 would be reduced and weekend service on the line discontinued, forcing riders to trek an intersecting route to Downtown Brooklyn, and then transfer to a different route. Prospect Heights Prospect Heights and Crown Heights will see the discontinuation of the duplicative segment of the B48 south of Fulton Street, a measure slated to save $900,000. The move will affect 2,550 weekday customers, who will now have to take the B49 or the Franklin Avenue shuttle train, increasing their trip times by five minutes. Service on the remaining portion of the B48 would be unaffected. The line connects Greenpoint to Prospect Park, rumbling along Franklin or Classon avenues to do so. Williamsburg The B39, an express bus to Manhattan that traverses the Williamsburg Bridge, will be eliminated, despite protestations from commuters and an online petition that called the line a “lifeline” for the elderly and seniors. Discontinuing the line will save the agency $1.1 million and force riders to use the , , or (M2) subway line. Also in Williamsburg, B13 service north of Wyckoff/Dekalb avenues will be discontinued — but the cut is not as drastic as was once feared. The agency initially planned to eliminate service between Williamsburg and the Myrtle-Wyckoff train station, but relented after public ire, and agreed to restore a small portion of the route that serves Wyckoff Hospital. The bus is the only handicapped accessible link to the medical center. Despite serving the hospital, the northern portion of the route was targeted by the agency because it was categorized underutilized and duplicative. The proposed bus cut will save $1 million and divert 900 weekday riders each day to the train, increasing the travel times by five minutes, the agency said. The agency will also discontinue weekend service on the B24, affecting Williamsburg, Greenpoint and Sunnyside. Roughly 3,150 customers will be required to walk to the B43, B48, or Q39/Q59, increasing a typical trip by a massive 18 minutes, and saving the cash-strapped agency $500,000. Bergen Beach The MTA will derail service of the B3 south of Avenue U and 71st Street, citing low ridership in this section. The move will affect 400 weekday travellers and 600 on the weekend. The service cut will save $300,000, and service on the remainder of the route will be unaffected. Sheepshead Bay The MTA decided to retain B4 service between Sheepshead Bay and the B/Q train station. During this time, service will operate on Avenue Z and would not service Neptune Avenue, retaining service to many of the affected riders while still saving $1.6 million, the agency states. Approximately 1,600 weekday travellers and 2,300 on the weekends soon have to take the B1 or B36 bus, and travel times are expected to increase up to 10 minutes. Marine Park Marine Park and Homecrest residents will be in for a weekend surprise when they wait for a B2 bus that will never arrive. The agency plans to eliminate service on the B2, which rumbles from Kings Highway to Kings Plaza, affecting 2,460 customers who will now be required to take the B100 — which does not stop at the mall — adding five minutes travel time. The cut is expected to yield $300,000 in savings, the agency said. Bensonhurst Come June, the 10,000 weekday riders of the (M2) line will be forced to take an extra transfer to the , , , , trains serving nearby stations, or face a longer walk, as rush hour service to certain parts of the borough will be eliminated. The 16,000 riders who took the (M2) between the train and Fourth Avenue station and Downtown Brooklyn stations will face an extra transfer, and the 22,000 riders will soon be forced to wait longer for local trips along the train/Fourth Avenue line. The (M2) would continue to run from western Queens to Williamsburg. Changes to the (M2) will mean a savings of $4 million annually, according to the agency. But straphangers are hardly cheering the penny pinching. Djeneba Sako said she uses the (M2) train every weekday and expects to be late going to work and picking her children up for school. “Now if I miss the train, I can take the (M2),” she said. But that option will be gone beginning this summer. “It’s not a good idea,” she said. Fewer trains will mean more time added to her daily commute — but the cost of gasoline will force her to endure mass transit, she said. Bensonhurst resident Raisa Rapoport said she normally uses the train, which shares a track with the (M2). Waiting times have increased the past few weeks, Rapoport said, and she expects the trains to become much more crowded after the cuts. But Rapoport said she has few options but to remain loyal to the train. “We aren’t going to have a lot of choice,” she said. The rush hour (M2) was eliminated because it was “predominantly empty” while travelling in Brooklyn, Ortiz said. “It was not a vastly utilized service, he said, adding that the , and all service the same stretch of that corridor. Bay Ridge Longtime resident Jean Ryan will miss her X27 express bus. To save $900,000, the agency will eliminate weekend service to Manhattan on the X27 and the X28 from Bensonhurst. Instead of hopping a bus, the agency recommends that riders instead take the R or D trains. But Ryan, who suffers from neuropathy and is wheelchair bound, can’t. “They say take the subway in Bay Ridge, but there is no wheelchair accessible subway. They say they are going to put elevators in at 86th Street by 2020. I’ll be 75 then, and I don’t think I’ll start using the subway again, if I’m still alive.” The B37 bus will now be discontinued and replaced with the B70 — which will not travel to Lutheran Medical Center on Second Avenue and 55th Street in Sunset Park, where longtime Bay Ridge resident Jane Kelly volunteers. Nor will it rumble Downtown, where she likes to shop. At 88 years old, Kelly said she can no longer manage subway stairs. “I went to the [MTA] hearing on the cuts, but the people who were there were not really listening.” The change is expected to save $2.8 million and service is expected to be maintained on key corridors like Eight Avenue and Fort Hamilton Parkway south of Bay Ridge Avenue. “These are painful measures, and we understand that,” Ortiz said. Sunset Park resident Ed Wade, a former manager with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, wasn’t impressed. He said the restructured route will leave locals in a lurch. “This is worse than the transit strike, because this will go on forever,” Wade added. “When the workers go on strike, they are criminals, when the board shuts down service, they are considered good managers.” Source: http://www.yournabe.com/articles/2010/03/30/brooklyn/courier-yn_brooklyn_front_page-dtg_transitcuts_2010_04_02_bk.txt http://yournabe.com/articles/2010/04/04/brooklyn/courier-yn_brooklyn_front_page-bn_transitcuts_2010_04_02_bk.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted April 4, 2010 Share #2 Posted April 4, 2010 My letter to them printed in the same issue was the impetus fo them writing this article. It should have appeared a month before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted April 4, 2010 Share #3 Posted April 4, 2010 OK very long article. So some replies. While sadly some are directly impacted by these cuts, others who maybe ride the planned changes routes like 2-3x a year are being unfair. Brooklyn other than the B4 is the hardest hit boro by far. 1)SW Brooklyn Express bus changes-X27/28/29 Again there enough ridership on the X27/28 to run at least hourly Monday-Saturdays only.Those who call for the total end of the weekend x27/28 in this article proves how there are only a handful of ada accesible stations in SW Brooklyn particuarly on the Bay Ridge stations and the elvated stations. What not fair imo is that weekend X27/28 is being cut and BM4 is untouched. 2)Flip flop of The B1 and B64 I already mentioned about the flip flop of the Bay Ridge terminals but what even more sad is the shorting of the B64 eastbound terminal to 25th/Cropsey. Many people in the Coney Island area use the B64 to go to Caser's Bay Shopping Center and for the to force them to use the unrelible B82 on Cropsey or the train is so stupid. More comments to article to come later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 5, 2010 Share #4 Posted April 5, 2010 We are gettin hit the hardest, but the exaggerations (and the colorful wording in this article used to describe) of the importances in some of these routes, are laughable... some quotes: Riders in Kensington and Flatbush will feel the pain when the B23, which knifes through the heart of Borough Park along 16th Avenue, to Cortelyou Road, is taken out of commission entirely. feel the pain... yah right... what's funny about this is that... ppl. in the heart of borough park seldom use the 23 (they use the 8 & the 11 far more - both those route takes those residents where they need/desire)... ppl. in flatbush that use the 23 are traveling b/w the strip along flatbush av, and CI av... you even get some people that use this route (at flatbush) just to take it to the Q train... sorry, I don't call that "feeling the pain"... Kensington resident Rabbi Aaron Schenker called the B23 an vital link between contiguous neighborhoods, and points south, like Kings Plaza mall at Flatbush Avenue and Avenue U. borough park residents aren't looking to get to kensington & flatbush... kensington residents tend to travel more towards flatbush than they do borough park... flatbush residents would be the most unaffected by this cut... look for more usage out of the 103 when the 23 goes... that to me, is not vital.... “This is an important route,” he said. “It looks almost superfluous, but it’s not.” Schenker added that “golden agers” on their way to doctor’s appointments and students travelling to school rely on the line. every route has some importance.... the level of importance, compared to others in the system, is the concern/question... Jo Anne Simon, a disability rights attorney and political activist, said the agency’s thinking doesn’t take into account those who can’t take the subway — particularly not a station like Smith-Ninth, the tallest in the system, and absent of elevators. “Subways aren’t accessible for lots of people,” she said. Red Hook resident Andrea McKnight said the elimination the B75 “makes no sense,” and predicted “chaos” on the B77 which is already filled to capacity with workers going to IKEA or other jobs in the neighborhood, during rush hour, and will likely see more commuters come the summer. Even before the changes are implemented, she’s at her wit’s end. Jo Anne Simon has a case... even an elevator would take a minute to get from ground level to platform level... Andrea McKnight, however, is delusional.... how in the hell would a B75 cut cause "chaos" on the B77, when the 75 doesn't even travel in RED HOOK, let alone that IKEA? People coming from Downtown would take the 61 there... people coming off the 75 (on either end of the route) would have to transfer to the 77 anyway to get to IKEA.... Cobble Hill Meanwhile, the B71, a line that travels from Cobble Hill to the borough’s cultural hub along Eastern Parkway, would be eliminated entirely, and 1,080 weekday and 1,210 weekend customers would be required to walk to other nearby bus routes, the plan states. Fitting that they state nothing about Crown Heights... whose riders utilize the B71 more than Cobble Hill residents do.... Park Slope The frequency of the B67, which connects Kensington to Downtown using McDonald Avenue, and the B69 would be reduced, so that with both routes on Seventh, customers traveling to the and subway station would see the same number of buses they see today. Weekday hours on the B69 would be reduced and weekend service on the line discontinued, forcing riders to trek an intersecting route to Downtown Brooklyn, and then transfer to a different route. At least they were reasonable in this part of the article.... thought I was gonna read some rhetoric about how important the 69 is along PPW.... Prospect Heights Prospect Heights and Crown Heights will see the discontinuation of the duplicative segment of the B48 south of Fulton Street, a measure slated to save $900,000. The move will affect 2,550 weekday customers, who will now have to take the B49 or the Franklin Avenue shuttle train, increasing their trip times by five minutes. everytime I see the term "duplicative segment", I can't help but to laugh.... b/c when the MTA uses it, it's hardly the case.... if there were any common sense put to use, they'd realize that there's a difference b/w the riderbase of the , and the riderbase of B48 riders.... (of course, it was the same situation w/ the riderbase of the B25, and that of the & the ... but that wasn't even the reason the 25 was saved, but that's neither here nor there).... be there as it may... how many ppl. utilize the park place station again? how many ppl. utilize the B48 in that area again? I rest my case.... Bergen Beach The MTA will derail service of the B3 south of Avenue U and 71st Street, citing low ridership in this section. The move will affect 400 weekday travellers and 600 on the weekend. The service cut will save $300,000, and service on the remainder of the route will be unaffected. That will be $300,000 well saved. Marine Park Marine Park and Homecrest residents will be in for a weekend surprise when they wait for a B2 bus that will never arrive. The agency plans to eliminate service on the B2, which rumbles from Kings Highway to Kings Plaza, affecting 2,460 customers who will now be required to take the B100 — which does not stop at the mall — adding five minutes travel time. The cut is expected to yield $300,000 in savings, the agency said. Kinda ironic... seeming how the B2 barely runs during the weekend anyway. I still can't see shoppers walking to Fillmore for the 100... I'd simply expect to see more riders on the B9, going to/from the Brighton line.... Bay Ridge Longtime resident Jean Ryan will miss her X27 express bus. To save $900,000, the agency will eliminate weekend service to Manhattan on the X27 and the X28 from Bensonhurst. Instead of hopping a bus, the agency recommends that riders instead take the R or D trains. But Ryan, who suffers from neuropathy and is wheelchair bound, can’t. “They say take the subway in Bay Ridge, but there is no wheelchair accessible subway. They say they are going to put elevators in at 86th Street by 2020. I’ll be 75 then, and I don’t think I’ll start using the subway again, if I’m still alive.” My question is, is Jean Ryan a weekend x27 rider... If she is, I feel for her... and now that I think about it, there are no ADA accessible stations along the .... but still, you cant run a service for one person, or a handful of people that are in her shoes.... weekend express service in this city isn't too great... have to cut fat where you can... “This is worse than the transit strike, because this will go on forever,” Wade added. “When the workers go on strike, they are criminals, when the board shuts down service, they are considered good managers.” Yeah, b/c the suits gotta get paid... ....while everyone else that can't afford suits, gotta suffer - this includes the middle class hardworking blue collar transit workers that are struggling to feed their families.... 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Forest Glen Posted April 5, 2010 Share #5 Posted April 5, 2010 I'm not commenting on express buses since that's part of my gag order, but the article called the B39 an express bus. I'm not sure if it was a deliberate error or if they're simply that naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous85 Posted April 5, 2010 Share #6 Posted April 5, 2010 It seems like the MTA OD's on 1 borough at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted April 5, 2010 Share #7 Posted April 5, 2010 Based solely on ridership numbers and map data, I find the weekend B24 discontinuation the most painful. It runs in a loop, and how does the MTA think that alternative service is available via other routes? Surprised that the x27/x28 weekend cuts are getting more of an outcry than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted April 6, 2010 Share #8 Posted April 6, 2010 We are gettin hit the hardest, but the exaggerations (and the colorful wording in this article used to describe) of the importances in some of these routes, are laughable... ... IAWTP! They only list what changes are important to them...they could care less about anyone else! I'm not commenting on express buses since that's part of my gag order, but the article called the B39 an express bus. I'm not sure if it was a deliberate error or if they're simply that naive. Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted April 6, 2010 Share #9 Posted April 6, 2010 Based solely on ridership numbers and map data, I find the weekend B24 discontinuation the most painful. It runs in a loop, and how does the MTA think that alternative service is available via other routes? Surprised that the x27/x28 weekend cuts are getting more of an outcry than this. Again as i said the B24 needed a restructure 1st before cutting off weekend service entirely. Also routes on the soon to be gone barring a bailout list like the BX20, B71, B23, Q74, B39 & B2(off peak) should be using 30-35 foot buses. And as a former resident of SW Brooklyn I did use the X27/28 especially weekend during the Stillwell Terminal/Manhattan Bridge recostruction projects and it does get some ridership. Still only Sunday service should be cut IMO. I say Sunday because on that day at most on those trips I see maybe 5-10 riders on that SW Brooklyn express routes. Also 30 minute headways on both Saturday/sundays for the X27/28 is way too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted April 6, 2010 Share #10 Posted April 6, 2010 BM4 and BM5 should be cut weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted April 6, 2010 Share #11 Posted April 6, 2010 BM4 and BM5 should be cut weekends. I agree NX on the BM4. However the BM5 Saturday service is here to stay for a while at least as the will add a few additional stops in Queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted April 6, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted April 6, 2010 Again as i said the B24 needed a restructure 1st before cutting off weekend service entirely. Also routes on the soon to be gone barring a bailout list like the BX20, B71, B23, Q74, B39 & B2(off peak) should be using 30-35 foot buses. And as a former resident of SW Brooklyn I did use the X27/28 especially weekend during the Stillwell Terminal/Manhattan Bridge recostruction projects and it does get some ridership. Still only Sunday service should be cut IMO. I say Sunday because on that day at most on those trips I see maybe 5-10 riders on that SW Brooklyn express routes. Also 30 minute headways on both Saturday/sundays for the X27/28 is way too much. There is no chance for the TA to buy below 40 foot except LIB. The only good suggestion to save the weekend service is x27 and x28 need to be interlined together to create a route X39. Run with limited service hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted April 6, 2010 Share #13 Posted April 6, 2010 There is no chance for the TA to buy below 40 foot except LIB. The only good suggestion to save the weekend service is x27 and x28 need to be interlined together to create a route X39. Run with limited service hours. So w8Hou are you suggesting the X27/28 be merged on weekends:eek::confused:? if so what streets would it travel in the Bay Ridge/ft hamilton areas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted April 8, 2010 Share #14 Posted April 8, 2010 While it is true that Brooklyn is impacted the harest in terms of people affected and the number of cuts, I think eastern Queens is hit harder because some will have 30 minutes added to their commute. Also, I don't know if anyone picked up on this but the B67 will have its service cut in half and will run only every 20 or 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 8, 2010 Share #15 Posted April 8, 2010 So w8Hou are you suggesting the X27/28 be merged on weekends:eek::confused:? if so what streets would it travel in the Bay Ridge/ft hamilton areas? That is actually a pretty good idea. I would guess it would run down Shore Road to 86th Street and then take 86th Street across where it would merge with the current X28. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vera Posted April 18, 2010 Share #16 Posted April 18, 2010 i just got a message about the bus routes being cut in brooklyn. i forgot that the smith 9th station is going to be closed for renovations. so how in the hell are we supposed to use the smith ninth station as an alternative transfer. since the B57 will take a long time comming. they are nuts at the MTA. now it will be harder for me to get home from work. unless there r going to be shuttle buses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 18, 2010 Share #17 Posted April 18, 2010 You see, if there are elevators at both Marcy and Essex, then the B39 won't be needed at all. Not many people ride the thing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 18, 2010 Share #18 Posted April 18, 2010 Yes, but is it worth thousands of dollars to build them compared to just running the B39 though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 18, 2010 Share #19 Posted April 18, 2010 Yes, but is it worth thousands of dollars to build them compared to just running the B39 though? Well actually, you have to look at it from this way: there are a lot of senior citizens living in the area (the Lower East Side) and CCM is a couple of blocks away from Essex Street. So in either case, having elevators at the Essex/Delancy Street complex would prove more advantageous than having the B39 because what the bus line only does is shuttle back and forth across the bridge, it doesn't really connect anywhere else (other than the bus terminal). The other alternative to the B39 is extend one of the bus lines that currently terminate at the bus terminal at Williamsburg and send it over the bridge. I'm not sure if that is going to be cost efficient though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 18, 2010 Share #20 Posted April 18, 2010 That's looking at it from the Manhattan side of the route (which there's nothin wrong with)... Looking at it from the Brooklyn side of the route, you DO get ppl coming from Queens, and parts of Brooklyn that take that quick trip on the B39, just to get to Manhattan... Period. It's not so much about the LES.... Yes, but is it worth thousands of dollars to build them compared to just running the B39 though? Not sure.... but from what I notice @ WBP, the majority of 39 users, are people coming off other buses.... Would those same people be willing to walk the short distance out of WBP, to (wherever an elevator would be built) along Broadway... for some reason, I doubt it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 18, 2010 Share #21 Posted April 18, 2010 That's looking at it from the Manhattan side... Looking at it from the Brooklyn side of the route, you DO get ppl coming from Queens, and parts of Brooklyn that take that quick trip on the B39, just to get to Manhattan... Period. It's not so much about the LES.... True, how about extending one of the Willy B terminal routes into Manhattan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted April 18, 2010 Share #22 Posted April 18, 2010 True, how about extending one of the Willy B terminal routes into Manhattan? Looking at the bus routes and their current lengths, that's kinda unjustifiable. If you ask me, the Manhattan buses that serve the LES area that terminate there (M8, M14A/D or M22) could be sent to Brooklyn, resulting in the B39 being discontinued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 18, 2010 Share #23 Posted April 18, 2010 True, how about extending one of the Willy B terminal routes into Manhattan? The Million dollar question is... which one? B60 headways aren't too great to begin with... worse, it runs slower than a snail... lol... doesn't help that it makes a series of turns through different neighborhoods, en route to the other end of the route (Canarsie)... this is probably the worst choice B46 or B44 arrive far too frequent... where would buses be put on the manhattan side of the "extension"? B24 runs similar (headway-wise) to the B39... Problem is, you don't wanna subject that route to Kosciusko (sp?) bridge traffic & Williamsburg Bridge traffic... Q59 was recently traversed around the Kent/Wythe av portion of Williamsburg to get to WBP.. for it to get to WBP, to Manhattan, it would involve a circuitous loop, which adds a couple minutes to a route that (also) crawls.... the last thing that route needs... Q54 riders can take the out of Jamaica, or the out of Middle Village to get to Manhattan... with the diversion of the route now serving Atlas mall, and it originating from Jamaica, this is pretty much out of the question also * If I missed a route, plz confirm... I did that off the top of my head (as to which routes serve WBP).... the 62 I didn't count b/c it doesn't terminate in WBP.... Anyway, you have to ask yourself, which is the lesser of two (well, 6) evils ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 18, 2010 Share #24 Posted April 18, 2010 Looking at the bus routes and their current lengths, that's kinda unjustifiable. If you ask me, the Manhattan buses that serve the LES area that terminate there (M8, M14A/D or M22) could be sent to Brooklyn, resulting in the B39 being discontinued. moving the M14a/d to Brooklyn I can't see happening... that route is too important to LES riders.... those riders would raise hell; LES residents are pretty vocal, regarding transit.... IMO, the B51 should be rerouted (in manhattan), and then sent westbound, towards BMCC... that would have nada to do w/ needing to discontinue to 39, though.... problem with that is, it would parallel too much of the M22... I don't see how one would route the M22 into Brooklyn; it runs below (under) the Manhattan & the Williamsburg bridges... from FDR/jackson, it would have to swing back to Delancey/Essex in order for it to even travel along the Willy B..... Unless you're implying that the M22 isn't really needed, west of Park Row.... Problem w/ the M8 is that, it serves an area of Manhattan where I don't think there's much demand for Brooklyn & Queens (potential) riders.... and vice versa.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 18, 2010 Share #25 Posted April 18, 2010 moving the M14a/d to Brooklyn I can't see happening... that route is too important to LES riders.... those riders would raise hell; LES residents are pretty vocal, regarding transit.... IMO, the B51 should be rerouted (in manhattan), and then sent westbound, towards BMCC... that would have nada to do w/ needing to discontinue to 39, though.... problem with that is, it would parallel too much of the M22... I don't see how one would route the M22 into Brooklyn; it runs below (under) the Manhattan & the Williamsburg bridges... from FDR/jackson, it would have to swing back to Delancey/Essex in order for it to even travel along the Willy B..... Unless you're implying that the M22 isn't really needed, west of Park Row.... Problem w/ the M8 is that, it serves an area of Manhattan where I don't think there's much demand for Brooklyn & Queens (potential) riders.... and vice versa.... Routing the M22 onto the WB would mean a circuitous loop back onto the bridge, or cutting service to Jackson Street. Or maybe: send the M14A over the bridge (left turn onto Delancy). Route the M14D onto Columbia Street with a right turn onto Grand Street, terminating at Essex (right on Norfolk, left on Broome, left on Essex, left on Grand). That could make up for lost M14A. But the bad side is, it would mean longer trip times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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