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What new routes would you like to see when MTA recovers?


JubaionBx12+SBS

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I never meant to suggest that I had all the answers. I know you don't agree with much of what I suggested and you have that right. But if I was in charge, I never would be proposing changes without adequate data as the MTA has done. I don't think the system would be damn near flawless if they listened to me, but it would be a hell of a lot better than what we have now. And just because I made many of these proposals years ago does not mean that they don't have any validity today.

 

We can disagree til the cows come home, I have no problem with a debate or someone's difference in opinion, of which that is not mine...

 

However, in your posts, you do come off as if you have all the answers (so to speak)... this "on my high horse" mentality you exude when you post on these forums... that's basically the gist of what I was conveying in that part of the post.... Now that you implicate that's not your intent or what not, I'll ease up on that a bit... hopefully those are sincere words spoken on your end, though....

 

the MTA in these proposals exhibit little-to-no logic (with a high amount of inconsistencies in their reasonings, to boot)... any outside influence w/ a brain the size of HALF a nodule would come up with ideas/thoughts/musings/proposals/whatever, that would be better than what we have now... So it's not like I'm on here implying that BrooklynBus posts the most invalid, out-of-the-sky proposals I've ever seen....

 

trust me, I've seen a hell of a lot worse than the ideas you pose/post(ed).... on this, and other transit related forums

 

one more thing... How long ago you made these proposals, doesn't make you anymore knowledgable than someone in the present that posts the same idea... just makes you more older/wiser...

 

*shrugs*

 

 

No argument here. The only time they were talking of any extensions of service recently is when Bloomberg forced them to come up with some if his congestion pricing was approved. Notice they didn't come up with those ideas on their own.

 

(I) Can't come to expect anything more....

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The Bx40/42 are the perfect candidates for Limited Stop service. However, the Bx19 is set up in a way which makes limited stop service impossible. Once it arrives in Manhattan it turns into a crosstown route.

 

based on what? the route length...

pfft, those two routes are very unreliable as it is... throwing LTD's on the 40 and/or the 42 would exacerbate reliability issues....

 

unless your plan is to add more runs on those routes... can't see that happening either (although relatively high, compared to other routes, ridership isn't THAT high on the 40/42 as to where they should start throwing more artics on the road... it's not like we're talking about usage levels of the Bx1/2 or the Bx12)..

 

As to why the Bx41 has that much more service over the 40/42, when (according to the 2009 stats), ridership figures b/w the two routes are almost the same, for the most part, is beyond me... Population density of the area(s) the 41 serves would be my guess...

 

eh, ever since they put artics along E. Tremont, service declined drastically...

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This may sound crazy, but in Brooklyn I would like to see the B68 (Coney Island Avenue) the B49 (Ocean Avenue) and the B44 (Nostrand Avenue) have some Select Bus Service.

 

SBS on the B68 or the B49 would be crazy. Besides spending the money to set up the service, all you would be accomplishing is to encourage people presently on the Brighton Line to use the bus which is more expensive to operate than the subway. Why should you want to do that?

 

In fact they should do the opposite and encourage more people to ride the subway when they have an alternative. If three-legged transfers were allowed, many Kingsborough riders currently transferring to the B49 from east-west bus routes would find it quicker to transfer to the Brighton Line instead and then back to the bus in Sheepshead Bay or Brighton Beach, than to take the B49 at all making it possible to even reduce service on that route.

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I like that we focus on Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx and Queens. What about Staten Island?

In regards to......

 

 

Which more or less gives basis to the thoughts that artics are there to replace essentially 2 regular length buses and for the MTA to pay one b/o than 2.

 

that's one of the reasons why I don't want artics here in Brooklyn...

~ double the bus = 1/2 the service...

 

 

This may sound crazy, but in Brooklyn I would like to see the B68 (Coney Island Avenue) the B49 (Ocean Avenue) and the B44 (Nostrand Avenue) have some Select Bus Service.

 

Yes... crazy... lol...

 

The (notorious) double parking on Coney Island av would have to resolved before a SBS would be thrown on the B68; I don't know of any other commercial street in Brooklyn where you have a propensity of large vans, mini trucks, even full 18 wheelers that double park along it...

 

There's talks about throwing SBS along the B44... I don't like the fact that in their plans, SBS buses would be removed off New York av & onto Rogers av... I will keep repeating that (online & offline) until I am blue in the face... demand for service along New York av is much higher than Rogers av (KCH isn't the only reason why that is either)...

 

Only way I'd (maybe) put SBS on the 49 is if the MTA were to consider Brooklyn Bus' idea (the removing of the 49 off rogers/bedford, and having it continue straight up/down ocean, to empire blvd or w/e).... in cohesion with a huge ridership increase along the corridor (Ocean av), which I don't really picture happening no time soon....

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the MTA in these proposals exhibit little-to-no logic (with a high amount of inconsistencies in their reasonings, to boot)... any outside influence w/ a brain the size of HALF a nodule would come up with ideas/thoughts/musings/proposals/whatever, that would be better than what we have now...

 

Couldn't agree with you more. The reason for that is that no one there has the knowledge we have. And when I say we, I mean the bus riders, drivers and those on forums such as this one who ride and use the buses everyday and understand the peoples' behavior.

 

From the MTA's point of view, what they do is logical to them, but their goals and assumptions are all wrong which I previously explained. No one in Operations Plannning "understands" buses and I personally told that to the director last month. I would never say such a thing about their subway people. The employees in Operations have a much better understanding of what goes on than those in Operations Planning who make the decisions, but are never consulted.

 

 

one more thing... How long ago you made these proposals, doesn't make you anymore knowledgable than someone in the present that posts the same idea... just makes you more older/wiser...

 

 

 

Never tried to imply it made me any more knowledgeable and I'm sorry if you thought I was coming off a bit pompous, but that is exactly the way I feel about MTA's bus planning. They feel they have all the answers, yet when you look at the facts, most if not all of their good ideas were suggested to them; they were not original. First, they deny it is a good idea, then they study it for about four years, sometimes changing it a little, then finally adopt it as their own, but will never admit that it wasn't theirs. That is exactly what happened with the B83 extension to Gateway via the Belt Parkway which I suggested to them in 2001. They immediately responded that they couldn't run buses on the Belt Parkway period. Around 2005 they made the change using the exact route I proposed. A friend of mine told me he suggested they reroute the B31 from Avenue U to Kings Highway Station which they also did.

 

Route changes that were obvious to me in 1973, and probably to a lot of others, took the MTA many years to adopt, eg. extension of the B61 to Long Island City and the B38 to Metropolitan Avenue. And now, through routing of the 86th Street route at Fourth Avenue, and extending the B57 on Smith and extending the B77 (B61) to replace the B75.

 

My biggest problem with how the MTA plans is that they do it just by looking at a map and by taking traffic counts. You have to ride a route to understand it which their planners never do. I was just reading an article in Mass Transit magazine about how the manager of the Fort Worth system got his job. He had a degree in psychology and was hired to ride the buses and interview the riders. Howard Roberts tried something like that with his "Bus Report Card" which was a lot more expensive than sending a few specially trained people to do what they did in Fort Worth, and which was just another waste of valuable funds. When the results were less than flatterring (I think most routes received a "C" grade) they just made believed it never happened. Did they actually expect riders to praise the system and did they even learn anything from it? Probably, to never attempt something like that again.

 

It all comes back to "wanting to do the right thing." They wanted to in Fort Worth. At the MTA, the "right thing" means one thing -- reducing costs and saving money -- the riders mean nothing, at least at the top levels. The operating people feel differently.

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Here are my ideas....

 

Bx89:

From E 233rd Street and White Plains Road to Bay Plaza, serving Wakefield, Willamsbridge, Co-Op City, and Bay Plaza via Barnes Av, E 236 Street, White Plains Road (Northbound), E 233 Street, Bronxwood Av (Southbound) E Gun Hill Road, Bartow Av, Sections 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, Co-Op City Blvd and Terminates at Bx29 terminal.

 

Bx37:

From Valentine Av and E 192 Street, to Gateway Center Mall, serving Bedford Park, Fordham, Tremont, Highbridge and Melrose, via Grand Concorse, Kingsbridge Road, Valentine Av (Northbound) Fordham Road (Southbound) Grand Concorse, E 149th Street, Gerard Av, E 151 Street, and River Av (Southbound). Terminates infront of North Retail Building.

 

More routes to follow.....

 

Has anyone seen my routes?

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Checkmate...

 

 

 

 

A route traveling from Bath av (period)... cutting through coney island... in order for it to get to kings plaza?

 

elongating a route *somewhere* just so that it can "qualify" for limited service?

 

you may as well have suggest sending the 64 to kings plaza... lol...

which would be even more pointless, due to the fact that bath av riders can xfer to the B3 to that godforsaken mall, by itself...

 

you aint thinkin this through, dude...

 

No, I wasn't saying to extend the B36 just for it to get limited service. I was just saying that that would be one way of doing it if it was necessary (which I don't really think there is too much of a demand for, enough to justify the extension). I wasn't the one who suggested the Bath Avenue service going to Kings Plaza either.

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No, I wasn't saying to extend the B36 just for it to get limited service. I was just saying that that would be one way of doing it if it was necessary (which I don't really think there is too much of a demand for, enough to justify the extension). I wasn't the one who suggested the Bath Avenue service going to Kings Plaza either.

que?

 

That post you just quoted of mine was directed @ NxExpress, not you....

You didn't see that while you were quoting it...

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nah... You quoted that post of mine as if I was specifically talking to you...

 

Nx is the person that quoted you....

maybe you got thrown off by our avatars.... I don't know...

 

Still don't see where you thought I was referring to you, when you knew you didn't make any mention of extending a route, just so that it could be ltd.... especially when I directed my quote at someone else.... lol...

 

but I digress....

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in the literal sense, not everyone is going to manhattan... but the masses are.

Since the ferry is the option for those who don't wanna shell out that $5.50 (express service), The hub & spoke system (for local buses) is far more beneficial to SI than a point-to-point system would ever be (IMO, anyway)....

 

There aren't too many other major destinations w/i Staten Island where you could have other routes terminate elsewhere w/i SI w/o it being "duplicative" (as the MTA would say)... Looking at a good portion of the routes outside of manhattan; they take you from *some* subway station to some neighborhood.... the operative word is "subway"...

 

which, as you know, SI doesn't have....

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On high volume routes (besides the S53/S79/S93, which don't go to the ferry), there are extra buses that don't meet the ferry. During middays, when the ferry doesn't run, by glancing at the schedules the S44, S46, S48, S61, S62, S76, and S78 have 15 minute headways, while the S40, S51, and S74 have 20 minute headways. (The ferry runs every half hour)

Unfortuantely, the only line that runs less than 15 minute midday headways is the S53 (10-12 minutes), which is the most used route on Staten Island (the S79, the second most used route runs every 15 minutes).

I agree that the off peak headways are much lower than many of the routes in the other boroughs, but only 2 routes on Staten Island had enough ridership to make it into the top 100 in terms of ridership (Maybe part of it is the long headways). Sad but true.

Still, some routes need articulated buses during rush hours (the S46/S96 (especially near Port Richmond High School) and S53 immediately come to mind) and/or shorter headways.

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.

 

that's one of the reasons why I don't want artics here in Brooklyn...

~ double the bus = 1/2 the service...

 

 

 

Actually the MTA planning standard isn't that bad. It's 4 artics to 5 40 foot buses. But you are correct. Not only do you get less service. With two door artic, you also get a slower trip because of the increased dwell time and the increased crowding standard to 125% of average seated capacity in the off-peak.

 

.

Yes... crazy... lol...

 

The (notorious) double parking on Coney Island av would have to resolved before a SBS would be thrown on the B68; I don't know of any other commercial street in Brooklyn where you have a propensity of large vans, mini trucks, even full 18 wheelers that double park along it...

 

 

 

Utica Avenue is just as bad between Snyder Avenue and Farragut Road, but that's a much shorter distance than on Coney Island Avenue. I think all the auto-related uses on those streets has something to do with it.

 

 

.

There's talks about throwing SBS along the B44... I don't like the fact that in their plans, SBS buses would be removed off New York av & onto Rogers av... I will keep repeating that (online & offline) until I am blue in the face... demand for service along New York av is much higher than Rogers av (KCH isn't the only reason why that is either)...

 

Only way I'd (maybe) put SBS on the 49 is if the MTA were to consider Brooklyn Bus' idea (the removing of the 49 off rogers/bedford, and having it continue straight up/down ocean, to empire blvd or w/e).... in cohesion with a huge ridership increase along the corridor (Ocean av), which I don't really picture happening no time soon....

 

I'd still be against it even if they did accept my idea of running the B49 straight along Ocean for the reason I previously stated.

 

You should realize if you don't know it already, that the B44 was never planned to operate on New York Avenue and the B49 was never planned to operate along Bedford Avenue. Both were originally trolley car routes on Rogers and Nostrand Avenues operated by competing companies for the same clientele. In the 1960s, when DOT decided to bring the one-way streets idea to Brooklyn with synchronized lights, they one wayed those streets forcing the TA to change the routes. Perhaps they should have put both routes on Nostrand and Rogers back then instead of using Bedford (which is chronically slow between Empire and Church), and New York Avenue.

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In fact they should do the opposite and encourage more people to ride the subway when they have an alternative. If three-legged transfers were allowed, many Kingsborough riders currently transferring to the B49 from east-west bus routes would find it quicker to transfer to the Brighton Line instead and then back to the bus in Sheepshead Bay or Brighton Beach, than to take the B49 at all making it possible to even reduce service on that route.

 

I was actually living in fantasy land of the idea of the SBS on the B49, B44, and B68. I actually made that suggestion if they were to get articulated buses which won't happen. Come to think of it, it's more counterproductive than it sounds.

 

Yes... crazy... lol...

 

The (notorious) double parking on Coney Island av would have to resolved before a SBS would be thrown on the B68; I don't know of any other commercial street in Brooklyn where you have a propensity of large vans, mini trucks, even full 18 wheelers that double park along it...

 

 

Double Parking is a pain, you are right about that. For blocks it's a problem. Even current B68 buses have issues with double parked cars. You're right the SBS won't work with the B68.

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Here are my ideas for new bus routes on both (MTA) bus and (NYCT) if and when the depression *cough cough* woops i mean mega recession ends.:eek:

Sorry if in advance if some of you guys mentioned it before as i just read the thread for 1st time this morning on 4/20/10.

 

1)New bus route between LGA Airport and Fordham Rd in the Bronx via the RFK/Triboro Bridge, the hub aka 149th/3rd (2)(5) station and travel via Webster to help out the busy BX41. "Limited stops' between Tremont and Steinway/Astoria Blvd in Queens.

 

 

2)New Route between Elizabeth, NJ (Elizabeth-Market St (NJT) station)and Eligntville TC center on Staten Island. Mainly via Richmond Ave, Forest Ave, Gothehals Bridge and local streets to the Elizabeth (NJT)station.

 

3)New Q94(when the (MTA) stupidly announced expansion plans 3 years ago right before this economic crisis began)is a great idea and should run between Fordham and Main/Roosevelt-Flushing as a weekday only Bronx limited of the Q44 which is needed. Replaces the X32.

 

4)Extend the Q101 via 57th St to end at 12nd Avenue/57th Street and can the M57. Gives Steinway and LI City Residents access to West Midtown, Columbus Circle area and Clinton area. Also takes riders off the nearby and busy (N)(R) and (E) subway lines.

 

5)Extend the Q4 to Elmont Rd. In North Valley Stream for easy transfer to the N1. It's only about a 6 block extension over the Cross Island Pwy.

 

 

5) SBS and expanded 'limited stops' created for these coordiors not yet listed in no order.

Queens

Q20/44-Main St. between Roosevelt and Queens Blvd/Briarwoood.

Q66(Peak Hour limited)between Main/Roosevelt and Steinway. PS. "hort turn Q66's should start/end at Steinway IMO not currently at 51st/Northern Blvd.

Q1/43 All day Limited service Monday-Saturdays along Hillside between Parsons station and Springfield Blvd. Q1's are extended to Supthin/Archer LIRR and (E)(J) station.

Q5 "Limited' expanded to run all day weekdays and Saturdays to compete with the gyspy vans along Merrick.

 

Q111/113 SBS service 7 days a week along Brewer. Weekdays 6am-9pm, Saturdays 8am-8pm and Sundays 12 Noon-8pm.

 

More to come in part 2 later as I am at work right now.:)

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Here are my ideas....

 

Bx89:

From E 233rd Street and White Plains Road to Bay Plaza, serving Wakefield, Willamsbridge, Co-Op City, and Bay Plaza via Barnes Av, E 236 Street, White Plains Road (Northbound), E 233 Street, Bronxwood Av (Southbound) E Gun Hill Road, Bartow Av, Sections 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, Co-Op City Blvd and Terminates at Bx29 terminal.

 

Bx37:

From Valentine Av and E 192 Street, to Gateway Center Mall, serving Bedford Park, Fordham, Tremont, Highbridge and Melrose, via Grand Concorse, Kingsbridge Road, Valentine Av (Northbound) Fordham Road (Southbound) Grand Concorse, E 149th Street, Gerard Av, E 151 Street, and River Av (Southbound). Terminates infront of North Retail Building.

 

More routes to follow.....

 

I had a similar route, but instead of the Bx8, I created a whole new route, called the Bx89.

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Await reactions from our "NYC Bus expert' B35 or anyone lol from below?:)

 

Here are my ideas for new bus routes on both (MTA) bus and (NYCT) if and when the depression *cough cough* woops i mean mega recession ends.:eek:

Sorry if in advance if some of you guys mentioned it before as i just read the thread for 1st time this morning on 4/20/10.

 

1)New bus route between LGA Airport and Fordham Rd in the Bronx via the RFK/Triboro Bridge, the hub aka 149th/3rd (2)(5) station and travel via Webster to help out the busy BX41. "Limited stops' between Tremont and Steinway/Astoria Blvd in Queens.

 

 

2)New Route between Elizabeth, NJ (Elizabeth-Market St (NJT) station)and Eligntville TC center on Staten Island. Mainly via Richmond Ave, Forest Ave, Gothehals Bridge and local streets to the Elizabeth (NJT)station.

 

3)New Q94(when the (MTA) stupidly announced expansion plans 3 years ago right before this economic crisis began)is a great idea and should run between Fordham and Main/Roosevelt-Flushing as a weekday only Bronx limited of the Q44 which is needed. Replaces the X32.

 

4)Extend the Q101 via 57th St to end at 12nd Avenue/57th Street and can the M57. Gives Steinway and LI City Residents access to West Midtown, Columbus Circle area and Clinton area. Also takes riders off the nearby and busy (N)(R) and (E) subway lines.

 

5)Extend the Q4 to Elmont Rd. In North Valley Stream for easy transfer to the N1. It's only about a 6 block extension over the Cross Island Pwy.

 

 

5) SBS and expanded 'limited stops' created for these coordiors not yet listed in no order.

Queens

Q20/44-Main St. between Roosevelt and Queens Blvd/Briarwoood.

Q66(Peak Hour limited)between Main/Roosevelt and Steinway. PS. "hort turn Q66's should start/end at Steinway IMO not currently at 51st/Northern Blvd.

Q1/43 All day Limited service Monday-Saturdays along Hillside between Parsons station and Springfield Blvd. Q1's are extended to Supthin/Archer LIRR and (E)(J) station.

Q5 "Limited' expanded to run all day weekdays and Saturdays to compete with the gyspy vans along Merrick.

 

Q111/113 SBS service 7 days a week along Brewer. Weekdays 6am-9pm, Saturdays 8am-8pm and Sundays 12 Noon-8pm.

 

More to come in part 2 later as I am at work right now.:P

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