Far Rockaway "Still" Having Problems With Their O7 OG HEVs

[RockParkH]

I was on Orion VII HEV 3755 this morning and the Metrocard reader was busted but I didn't care because the bus was empty and I got a seat (weird for the Q22 to be empty around 7:45/8:00am) but to make matters worse the bus ten minutes ahead of us #3757 broke down in the middle lane on Seagirt Blvd. so all of the people on the packed bus had to get on the bus I was on making the ride HELL.

 

Another bus that was crap (you probably saw my other post) is 3751 yes that bus still has problems and yet they are still running it, the problems on 3751 ranged from cosmetic damage and yes engine trouble, I know there are worse depots out there but I personally think FRD should step it up. :mad::mad:

[Cait Sith]

I was on Orion VII HEV 3755 this morning and the Metrocard reader was busted but I didn't care because the bus was empty and I got a seat (weird for the Q22 to be empty around 7:45/8:00am) but to make matters worse the bus ten minutes ahead of us #3757 broke down in the middle lane on Seagirt Blvd. so all of the people on the packed bus had to get on the bus I was on making the ride HELL.

 

Another bus that was crap (you probably saw my other post) is 3751 yes that bus still has problems and yet they are still running it, the problems on 3751 ranged from cosmetic damage and yes engine trouble, I know there are worse depots out there but I personally think FRD should step it up. :mad::mad:

 

JFK & Far Rockaway Depots have a history of having beat up and problem buses, they pretty much do have the most beat-up type lines in the MTA Bus system right next to La Guardia. Those buses are about 2-3 years old and they were bound to have problems sometime in the future. Every depot has their own bus issues and sometimes its not because of maintenance. :tdown:

[error46146]

its not the depot's fault lol the MTA shoulda ordered hybrid orion 5s or somethin...

[LRG]

I was on Orion VII HEV 3755 this morning and the Metrocard reader was busted but I didn't care because the bus was empty and I got a seat (weird for the Q22 to be empty around 7:45/8:00am) but to make matters worse the bus ten minutes ahead of us #3757 broke down in the middle lane on Seagirt Blvd. so all of the people on the packed bus had to get on the bus I was on making the ride HELL.

 

Another bus that was crap (you probably saw my other post) is 3751 yes that bus still has problems and yet they are still running it, the problems on 3751 ranged from cosmetic damage and yes engine trouble, I know there are worse depots out there but I personally think FRD should step it up. :mad::mad:

 

Of course Far Rock is having trouble with their Orion 7s...because they don't know how to take care of their buses for reasons Cait Sith has stated. Other crappy depots also include the likes of LaGuardia and Flatbush.

 

its not the depot's fault lol the MTA shoulda ordered hybrid orion 5s or somethin...

 

IAWTP

[Cait Sith]

Of course Far Rock is having trouble with their Orion 7s...because they don't know how to take care of their buses for reasons Cait Sith has stated. Other crappy depots also include the likes of LaGuardia and Flatbush.

 

 

 

IAWTP

 

I disagree with Flatbush being a crappy depot. Gotta remember they also have some long distance and beat-up type routes themselves like the B41 Kings Plaza / Downtown Brooklyn route, thats abuse for the bus along that line in itself!

 

Those buses run really well and look great from my experiences, I often go to Kings Plaza via the B41 or the B2 and I never had any bad experiences with Flatbush and their buses. Right now, East New York is worse than Flatbush. Flatbush is pretty high up there in terms of maintenance in my view, Ulmer Park went downhill, perfect example is when they had to change NovaBus RTS-06 5075's ZF Transmission into an Allison Transmission, that ZF transmission was through!

[LRG]

I disagree with Flatbush being a crappy depot. Gotta remember they also have some long distance and beat-up type routes themselves like the B41 Kings Plaza / Downtown Brooklyn route, thats abuse for the bus along that line in itself!

 

That's true, can't really argue with that.

 

Those buses run really well and look great from my experiences, I often go to Kings Plaza via the B41 or the B2 and I never had any bad experiences with Flatbush and their buses. Right now, East New York is worse than Flatbush. Flatbush is pretty high up there in terms of maintenance in my view, Ulmer Park went downhill, perfect example is when they had to change NovaBus RTS-06 5075's ZF Transmission into an Allison Transmission, that ZF transmission was through!

 

Well my opinion on Flatbush is kinda dated. I really haven't taken a Flatbush-oriented route in quite some time. I'll take a ride on one and see if my opinion changes.

[MattTrain]

Flatbush based buses run through some rough roads. Try the B46 route via Utica Avenue and you'll see.

 

Back to topic, I've had a Flatbush bound Q35 bus break down in Kings Plaza due to engine failure.

[LRG]

Flatbush based buses run through some rough roads. Try the B46 route via Utica Avenue and you'll see.

 

Well I haven't taken the B46 since freshman year of high school...afterwards I found a better alternative to school which was the train.

[MattTrain]

Well I haven't taken the B46 since freshman year of high school...afterwards I found a better alternative to school which was the train.

 

Lucky you. :cool:

[Grand Concourse]

Well my opinion on Flatbush is kinda dated. I really haven't taken a Flatbush-oriented route in quite some time. I'll take a ride on one and see if my opinion changes.

 

Well please do.

[to anyone in general]: I don't understand why everyone is bad mouthing FB all of a sudden. I ride their buses almost daily and I don't see what makes them so horrible. I don't claim they are the best, but at least ride the buses before passing judgement.

[Grand Concourse]

:tup:

I disagree with Flatbush being a crappy depot. Gotta remember they also have some long distance and beat-up type routes themselves like the B41 Kings Plaza / Downtown Brooklyn route, thats abuse for the bus along that line in itself!

 

Those buses run really well and look great from my experiences, I often go to Kings Plaza via the B41 or the B2 and I never had any bad experiences with Flatbush and their buses. Right now, East New York is worse than Flatbush. Flatbush is pretty high up there in terms of maintenance in my view, Ulmer Park went downhill, perfect example is when they had to change NovaBus RTS-06 5075's ZF Transmission into an Allison Transmission, that ZF transmission was through!

 

Exactly, totally agreed.

[St Louis Car 09]

The should have stuck with High-floor buses.They absorb shock better with the high ground clearance asa well as having a more rigid Frame to take on cities like NYC which is the perfect test bed for any bus.Ride a low floor through the roughest NYC roads and the whole bus rattles with every bump,especially sitting in the low-floor section.

[Fresh Pond]

Well I haven't taken the B46 since freshman year of high school...afterwards I found a better alternative to school which was the train.

 

Take a SRO B46 NB from ENY av to Eastern Pkwy. That'll put some hair on the bus :cool: (metaphorically speaking lol)

 

Well please do.

[to anyone in general]: I don't understand why everyone is bad mouthing FB all of a sudden. I ride their buses almost daily and I don't see what makes them so horrible. I don't claim they are the best, but at least ride the buses before passing judgement.

 

Flatbush isn't bad at all. I find it one of the best ones in Brooklyn right now (the other being Grand Av). The Only problem is that Flatbush has some of the busiest lines in the city and with the crowds and tough roads, it kinda takes a year or two off the lifespan

[engineerboy6561]

The should have stuck with High-floor buses.They absorb shock better with the high ground clearance asa well as having a more rigid Frame to take on cities like NYC which is the perfect test bed for any bus.Ride a low floor through the roughest NYC roads and the whole bus rattles with every bump,especially sitting in the low-floor section.

 

I agree with you completely. Like I said earlier, I have nothing in particular against NGs or aganst low floors in general; they are decent buses. However, I still feel that making a massive portion of (MTA)'s fleet low-floored is seriously bad news, particularly when (as is the case of the Orion VII) we own upwards of 1600 buses of this type over two generations. While I am not arguing that FR's issues with the OGs and some of MHV/MJQ's issues with the NGs indicate that the Orion VII is a POS, I am saying that it is a reminder why we should not go all or even majority low-floor.

My first gripe with this is that such a large order of one type of bus risks amplifying any issues the fleet may have. Remember, we haven't done single orders that big since 1980-1981 when we took delivery of our first round of GMC RTSs and Grumman 870s (839 and 851 buses, respectively). Of those models the RTS wound up staying on and we wound up taking delivery of 3000+ as well as being the guinea pigs for CNG, methanol, and hybrid RTSs. Were it not for the technical and legal fiasco over 6360-6364 this argument would be moot because we would have 1600+ HEV RTSs. The Grummans are equally well-known among even non-busfans, but for the opposite reasons. Within months of the delivery they manifested serious issues such as cracking A-frames and they all had to be yanked for good by 1984. We wound up bumming buses off of both WMATA and some random bus dealer just to prevent serious shortages. Now in no way am I saying that the OG/NG order will be or have been a repeat of the Grumman debacle, but there were issues with spontaneously combusting space heaters and jammed windows on other agencies' NG orders and serious battery life problems on other agencies' OG orders. If we were to have flaming heater issues (no pun intended) with nearly 900 NGs and another 800+ OGs spread across most of our depots, what would that do to our fleet? Even if the issues with OGs are confined to FR because of poor maintenance or hard-to-drive-on streets, the fact that practically all of our post-2001 fleet (excepting the Galaxies, which are needed elsewhere and cannot be sent out to FR for at least the time being) is OG or NG means that we cannot simply trade the buses to a more attentive depot with routes that are less exacting because we don't have anything new to replace them with that would not most likely wind up in the same shape within 1-2 years.

More generally, I still do not believe that a 40-foot low floor bus can act as a staple on high-capacity lines as efficiently as a high floor model. Yes, they are better with wheelchairs and the elderly/infirm. However, think of what you give up in exchange for that. First of all, between the wheel wells and the multiplex wiring system you lose 5-6 seats right there. Of those seats you may be able to get 3 back by putting them atop the wheel well but if you do that you need an intermediate step and that narrows the aisle so you lose anyway. Second, if you order a stepped low floor bus (as most if not all of the low floors on the USA market are) you lose standing space due to the steps. Also, many customers will not be willing to climb the steps to stand in the back so your effective capacity decreases further. On a true low floor model you end up with serious drivetrain issues that I can only see being addressed through an awkward drive configuration that increases the size of the engine block and thus cuts capacity anyway. On lower-capacity lines and/or lines that serve a disproportionately elderly/infirm clientele that is not a problem, but who in their right mind would want low floors predominating on the B44/B46 during rush hour or the Q44 on a weekend afternoon when they can't even handle SAT morning on the Bx28 (SRO from Bainbridge Av/206 St to Harry Truman HS, sardine-can packed from Montefiore to Truman)?

I personally see the massive NG order as an option squandered; when this was going down Daimler was on the verge of axing the Orion V barring a decent-sized order. The MTA had a chance to provide that order, probably by splitting it between Orion Vs and NGs. Had that been done, we would have been able to get Orion Vs on lines they would never see, such as the aforementioned B44/B46 as well as seeing fewer packed buses for us to be stuck with. Finally, with the Orion V there would have been practically no risk; the model would have turned 21 this year and if the 2006 Bee-Line Orion Vs are any indication it just kept getting better. For those reasons, I say :cry::cry::cry: to the end of the Orion Vs and :confused: to the massive NG order.

Returning to the topic of FR, I believe that it is a case study as to why typical low-floor buses can prove to be a liability. FR is pretty legendary on these forums for its poor maintenance and not all of the FR routes run on well-paved or well-maintained streets. Many of the buses that came in under the takeover were either too old to be maintained in regular service or, like the ex-WMATA Orion Vs, are pretty much considered to be on their last legs. If I were and planning on a takeover of the PBLs, the very first thing I would have done was make inquiries at Orion about the possibility of getting new Orion Vs to replace the buses that wee going to have to be retired. I say Orion Vs because that bus has been proven in NYC time and again. Our 1993 units, while getting on in age at about 15-16 years old, were still barreling down Northern Blvd at 60+ mph and doing 40 with nary a complaint on the GH cross-Bronx lines, while at only 1-2 years old some of GH's NGs have already begun to acquire whines in their engines and other signs that they were not taking the use very well. As I said earlier in the post, the Bee-Line Orion Vs are at least as powerful and probably more so than the 1993 units that we had, and thus would be perfectly suited to running out of FR for at least a decade (maybe more) without complaint. The same can be said for long-distance/high demand routes at better depots, as much because of increased seating capacity as more durability. Now that the Orion V option is gone, let us only hope that (NJT)'s order or NABI 416s works out really well and can get us some high-performance NABIs to run service on longer or more demanding runs and in general complement our low-floor fleet.

[w8Hou]

^^^ You really need to seperate in paragraphs.

 

and for MTA ordering NABI 416. HA, MTA is so scared to order NABI buses with the recent bad reviews of NABI buses in the local area.

[East New York]

The should have stuck with High-floor buses.They absorb shock better with the high ground clearance asa well as having a more rigid Frame to take on cities like NYC which is the perfect test bed for any bus.Ride a low floor through the roughest NYC roads and the whole bus rattles with every bump,especially sitting in the low-floor section.

 

I agree HF's are better, but will most likely never have anything to do with NABI. Ever! It seems as if NJT and DART are the only (major) operators still ordering high floors anyway!

[D.J.]

I agree HF's are better, but will most likely never have anything to do with NABI. Ever! It seems as if NJT and DART are the only (major) operators still ordering high floors anyway!

 

DART Dallas is considering Gillig CNG buses

http://www.examiner.com/x-45825-Dallas-Alternative-Transportation-Examiner~y2010m4d28-DART-to-purchase-as-many-as-594-CNG-buses

 

More than likely, they will be Low Floor since Gillig no longer produces the Phantom model, although I could be wrong since NABI stopped producing the 416 model for a while too