R142 Trucks

[m7zanr160s]

Do R142's squeal less on turns than do R142A's? The trucks on the 142's look as if they allow the individual axles in each truck to pivot slightly. Or, is that just for suspension?

[SubwayGuy]

It's a radial truck design meant to allow pivoting around turns. However, this lead to bad wear patterns on the brakes because the tread brake units were fixed on the truck rather than pivoting along with the axles. As I understand it, the system has been changed slightly to prevent wear and tear, but I don't know the specifics, perhaps an RCI could add something if they're aware of what specifically was done to fix this and reduce brake wear.

[DOB2RTO]

Kawasaki.........

 

 

 

Bombardier.....

 

 

 

Even though both have air ride suspension, they are different. Whatever the technical differences, the Bombs, are the superior train, between them too. The bombs trucks up-close, seems fixed (like a fixed M). Maybe the Chevron suspension (air ride suspension from wheels to truck), allows from some slight movement..........

 

Next time I am in the yard, I will try to get some pics of the trucks...........

[Grand Concourse]

A few years ago [2006], when the borrowed R142As from the and lines, I think the BBD R142s were getting their 'brakes fixed'. What I wonder is: have the Kawasaki ones had the same 'treatment' yet?

[DOB2RTO]

A few years ago [2006], when the borrowed R142As from the and lines, I think the BBD R142s were getting their 'brakes fixed'. What I wonder is: have the Kawasaki ones had the same 'treatment' yet?

 

239yard keeps both their dynamic (maintaining the traction motors), and friction brakes working superbly most of the time............

 

Westchester Yard, all I can say is Oh Boy!!!!!!! The line, most of those trains have dead motors. Yes I said most, cause just about all those trains brakes scream. Not squeal, or squeak, but scream. Just terrible.........

[m7zanr160s]

Even though both have air ride suspension, they are different. Whatever the technical differences, the Bombs, are the superior train, between them too. The bombs trucks up-close, seems fixed (like a fixed M). Maybe the Chevron suspension (air ride suspension from wheels to truck), allows from some slight movement..........

 

Next time I am in the yard, I will try to get some pics of the trucks...........

 

I see what you're saying, but I'm talking more so the axle area. It looks like they have their own suspension, which thought was for pivoting.

[DOB2RTO]

I see what you're saying, but I'm talking more so the axle area. It looks like they have their own suspension, which thought was for pivoting.

 

Not that big air bag in the pic. There are 3 suspensions on the Bombs. The Chevron (aka the Primary suspension, the V looking one attached from the wheels to the truck), the air bag (the one in the pic, from the carbody to the truck), and the shock absorbers (the vertical bar)..........

 

The Kawasakis have the same thing (different shape and look), just the ones from the truck to the wheels, are basically hidden under the truck frame, as they are attached from the top of the wheels, not from the sides like the Bombs..........

 

I have the books for the R142 and R142A from schoolcar, and read the suspension stuff.........

[St Louis Car 09]

Kawasaki.........

 

 

 

Bombardier.....

 

 

 

Even though both have air ride suspension, they are different. Whatever the technical differences, the Bombs, are the superior train, between them too. The bombs trucks up-close, seems fixed (like a fixed M). Maybe the Chevron suspension (air ride suspension from wheels to truck), allows from some slight movement..........

 

Next time I am in the yard, I will try to get some pics of the trucks...........

Bombardier R142 has the better truck design.Although heavier,it provides for a smoother ride,especially around curves as mentioned above.Kawasaki lighter truck allows for slightly faster acceleration and speed.Winner Bombardier.And yes DOB2RTO R142A`s have a lot of dead motors and don`t for get bucking broncos.

[rr4567]

239yard keeps both their dynamic (maintaining the traction motors), and friction brakes working superbly most of the time............

 

Westchester Yard, all I can say is Oh Boy!!!!!!! The line, most of those trains have dead motors. Yes I said most, cause just about all those trains brakes scream. Not squeal, or squeak, but scream. Just terrible.........

 

I remember riding on a R142A with dead motors AND bad air conditioners. during acceleration, you heard nothing, then when slowing down.....EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! is all you heard from those damned 1 shoe* brakes

 

 

*1 shoe: One shoe per wheel, a stupid design in my opinion. When one car is using just friction brakes, you see the front car is being pushed by said dead car, and you see the rest of the cars behind it pulling back on it.

[St Louis Car 09]

Is it possible for the R142 airspring to pop or rupture? And if so would the train still be operable with a popped airspring?

[6 Lexington Ave]

Ok... this question may be stupid but if a train has dead motors how does it move?

[Joe]

Ok... this question may be stupid but if a train has dead motors how does it move?

 

If the whole train has dead motors, it simply cannot move on its own. However, if only one car has dead motors, then the other 9 cars (obviously this differs based on line and car type) will push/pull.

[Chrystie Street Cut]

 

Is it possible for the R142 airspring to pop or rupture? And if so would the train still be operable with a popped airspring?

Yep, happens from time to time and the train has to be taken out of service and is labled a B/Oed Air Bag

[St Louis Car 09]

Yep, happens from time to time and the train has to be taken out of service and is labled a B/Oed Air Bag

Wow thanks for the info.Imagine that.

[Grand Concourse]

239yard keeps both their dynamic (maintaining the traction motors), and friction brakes working superbly most of the time............

 

Westchester Yard, all I can say is Oh Boy!!!!!!! The line, most of those trains have dead motors. Yes I said most, cause just about all those trains brakes scream. Not squeal, or squeak, but scream. Just terrible.........

 

Oh damn, so I dare say Westchester yard is like then TBC/LGA for the subway in terms of deferred maintenence?

Shame too, but since I ride the (2)/(5) most of the time, I'm not complaining Kudos to 239th!

[SubwayGuy]

Is it possible for the R142 airspring to pop or rupture? And if so would the train still be operable with a popped airspring?

 

Yes it can happen...train would be taken out of service for repairs.

 

Ok... this question may be stupid but if a train has dead motors how does it move?

 

Other motors in the set would provide the power unless they were all dead, then the set would have to be towed back to the yard. With a dead motor, the dynamic brake will not work through that motor, which means the truck with the dead motor will always use the brake shoes to stop...that wears on the brake shoes a lot and also contributes to the squealing you hear the brakes on the train making at high speeds...common thing on the as DOB2RTO mentioned

[Grand Concourse]

Come to think of it, I think I have rode on probably a train with a 'dead motor' in one of the cars. Not a smooth ride - I'll put it at that.

[LRG]

A dead motor can also result in the entire trainset to run slower than usual, doesn't it?

[SubwayGuy]

A dead motor can also result in the entire trainset to run slower than usual, doesn't it?

 

Acceleration rate will be slowed, particularly climbing grades. If enough motors go dead, yes the train's top speed will be effected.

[Joe]

A dead motor can also result in the entire trainset to run slower than usual, doesn't it?

 

One dead motor in a consist probably won't have a noticeable effect.

 

I would assume a few dead motors might result in an overall decrease in acceleration rate, but not top speed. However, given physical constraints, acceleration rate implies a realistic top speed.

[St Louis Car 09]

If im not mistaken.Isn`t the R142 air bag suspension is made by Firestone.There was a pic I seen some years back and it was a upclose shot of the spring and it bore the Firestone name.Just curious.

[North-Eastern T/O]

Other motors in the set would provide the power unless they were all dead, then the set would have to be towed back to the yard. With a dead motor, the dynamic brake will not work through that motor, which means the truck with the dead motor will always use the brake shoes to stop...that wears on the brake shoes a lot and also contributes to the squealing you hear the brakes on the train making at high speeds...common thing on the as DOB2RTO mentioned

 

Believe it or not, I have had train with Dead motors for acceleration, but would work for Dynamic Braking. I checked Circuit brakers and they were all on.

 

The problem with the R142/a's are that the middle car of the five are trailers te begain with and the 2 and 4 cars only have 1 truck with motors on them. I full 10 car train of R142/a's only have 24 motors instead of 40 motors like on the older cars and R143's and R160's. I fell someone got paid off when these are were order so this could have gone thought.

[RTOMan]

Believe it or not, I have had train with Dead motors for acceleration, but would work for Dynamic Braking. I checked Circuit brakers and they were all on.

 

The problem with the R142/a's are that the middle car of the five are trailers te begain with and the 2 and 4 cars only have 1 truck with motors on them. I full 10 car train of R142/a's only have 24 motors instead of 40 motors like on the older cars and R143's and R160's. I fell someone got paid off when these are were order so this could have gone thought.

 

Need to clarify this Robert(not saying you are wrong) In a R142 consist the Bombs and the Kawasakis, it goes likes this A-B-B-B-A-A-B-B-B-A.

 

Now all "A" cars are the ones with two traction motors ALL "B" cars have trailer trucks with one traction Motor. So instead of twenty motors in the consist you have fourteen motors in the consist. Yeah they stink with the slip slide, and the 142A's motors drop out like flies even while you are operating sometimes they reset sometimes they dont.

 

As i said not saying you was wrong but had to claify something. :tup:

[6 Lexington Ave]

So the dead motors: are they caused by poor maintenance at Westchester Yard or do they occur at the R142As on the as well? Can the bucking also be caused by dead motors? I thought these cars were generally reliable...

[SubwayGuy]

So the dead motors: are they caused by poor maintenance at Westchester Yard or do they occur at the R142As on the as well? Can the bucking also be caused by dead motors? I thought these cars were generally reliable...

 

Bucking can be caused by any number of things, the short answer is as the train accelerates one car bangs into another, which bangs into the ones in front of it, and all of them buck for a few seconds as a result until they settle into a spot where they are all accelerating together and the couplers are not pushing and pulling anymore.

 

A dead motor can cause that effect. Also since R142A propulsion is electronically controlled, sometimes the computer won't "get it right" and the cars will buck with no dead motors.

 

The cars are said to be reliable because they have a high MDBF (mean distance between failures). A failure is any maintenance issue that causes the train to lose 5 minutes or more. Dead motors won't cause a failure because the train can stay in service...well, unless there are so many dead motors on the train that it must be taken out of service, but one or two won't do that.