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Which Bus Routes Would be Better Off at Other Depots?


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The thread about AMS closing got me thinking. Which bus routes should be swapped to other depots (or be split) in order to make a more sensible assignment based on where the depot is? What assignments would save the most time/money/fuel on deadheads and location? Here are some of my ideas:

 

 

  • The M96/M106 should be based out of 100th St. instead of MHV. The depot is literally 4 blocks away from the M96 on Park Ave.

  • The Q39 and Q67 should be out of Fresh Pond instead of LGA.

  • The QBx1 Co-Op City runs make more sense being based out of GH than ECH.

  • The M66 and M72 should be based out of MJQ instead of 126th.

  • The Q44 should be split between CS/WF. I would say JAM/WF, but IINM the Q44 is interlined with the Q20, which is based out of CS.

  • The Q53 should be split between LGA and FR.

  • The Q35 should be split b/w FLA and FR.

  • The Bx33 is closer to MHV than MCH (which is what it was based out of before it closed IINM).

 

 

Feel free to discuss. I know I included the moving of routes between (MTA) bus and NYC bus depots, but we're only a few years away from complete integration of both entities anyway.

 

1:100St(Tuskegee Airmen Depot) is a artic only depot.No way in hell artics need to be on the 96.

2:There would have to be a union agreement in order for the Q39 and 67 to leave MTA Bus and become NYCT routes.

3:ECH is close to Co-Op city and Pelham Bay.QBX1 can stay where it is.Its no more than a 10min deadhead from the depot to Pelham Bay.

4:Who knows it just might happen but I guess they want to keep a certain number of routes at 126St.

5:Any split of the Q44 would need union agreement and all that twiny goodness stuff.Plus it would need to become its own route seperate from the Q20A/B.

6:Ehhhh....I dunno about the Q53.FR is just pitiful as a depot,can't even call it a depot anyway!Its the very definition of a crapshack!Might as well leave it entirely at LGA.

7:Q35 is fine as it is.No touch please!

8:Some very makes sense type move(s) would have to occur to send the Bx33 to MV.

 

As for me personally,move the B35 to ENY and make sure NO hybrids are allowed on that route!It needs to be 100% RTS.(1)(A)(C)

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Here are my thoughts:

Manhattan

M31-split with 126/MJQ since it runs with the M57

M60-split with 126 or LGA

M66-split with MJQ (WB only)

M72-same as M66

M96-split with 100

M100-split with 126 or MV

M104-split with MJQ

More to come

 

Have you lost your mind?! The M66/72 is only like 15 or so buses, more or less, there's no point in having those lines split with MJQ when 126 covers those lines perfectly.

 

Splitting the M60 with LaGuardia and you will have more reliability issues than you already have on the M60, 126 dont have that much 40 foot buses to spare, they already got 8983 and 8992 from Quill, I dont know how much they would have left to spare.

 

Splitting the M100 with 126 OR MHV would be a total disaster, the M100 is a relatively long line and splitting it with 126 wont do any good along with the fact that most of Manhattanville's buses are mostly on the 5th Avenue / Madison Avenue lines, they wouldnt have much to spare as well.

 

Dont bother splitting the M104, its already coming to Quill. And with the cutback to the Port Authority Bus Terminal, that makes PERFECT sense.

 

Splitting the M96 with 100th? Bad idea, the ends of each section of the M96 become so narrow-a$$ed that the artics would struggle having to get through those streets.

 

The M31, dont bother, 126 throws in artics on that line quite often, splitting it would just be a waste in itself.

 

Thats my 2 cents of the night.

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I was waiting for someone to make a thread about this. Here are my suggestions (pre-service cuts)

 

Brooklyn

B13: Back to Fresh Pond (the last 4 buses of the night terminate at Myrtle-Wyckoff anyway)

B17: Flatbush

B36: Flatbush

B39: interline it with the B60 and make it ENY

B47: Flatbush

B51: interline it with the B61 and make it Gleason

B60: ENY

B82: Ulmer Park

B100: Flatbush

 

Manhattan

M1-M3: Hale when it reopens

M31: 100 St

M60: LGA

M79: 100 St

M98: 126 St

 

Queens

Q4: Queens Village

Q5: Queens Village

Q24: Jamaica

Q25: Jamaica

Q27: Stengel

Q35: Flatbush

Q38: Grand Avenue

Q39: Grand Avenue

Q44/20A/20B: Jamaica & Stengel split

Q48: LGA

Q53: Far Rockaway

Q54: Grand Avenue

Q66: Stengel

Q67: Fresh Pond

Q85: Queens Village

Q113: Far Rockaway

 

Don't really know much about Bronx or Staten Island

 

B13:Ehhh maybe.

B17:Thats 50/50.

B36:If it gets moved to Flatbush,service should be extended to Kings Plaza.

B39:This could work except late nights.

B47:Leave it alone.Wether it stays at Grand or goes to Flatbush it'll be a mess.

B51:CNG are not allowed on the Manhattan Bridge.

B60:100% agree.It makes no sense especially for those that have to deadhead back to Grand from Canarsie.Agnonizingly passing by 2 depots is a real waste.

B82:Its better split between Ulmer and ENY but we'll see.

B100:Again serious union agreement would have to happen for it to leave MTAB and join NYCT.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

M2,3:Makes no sense for it to be at MCH.Going across 145St from the west side is a *****.

M31:100ST is artic only.Can't happen.

M60:Don't know WHY you would even go there.This would require all buses to pull in and out of the airport and that is NOT happening!

M79:I guess,why not.

M98:Yeah.....HOW BOUT NO!!Especially with pull ins from Cabrini Blvd that is NOT happening.That would require cutting across 125St end to end and that is a MAJOR no no!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q4,5,85:All 3 buses end right by Jamaica Depot.No need for them to go to QV.

Q24,25,35,38,39,66,67:Union agreements would need to occur for these moves to happen and I dont see it ever happening.

Q48:See M60.

Q53:Like I said before.FR is a crapshack.That place is the whalesballs.Not happening.Not enough space either.

Q113:As stated above,NOT HAPPENING!!!Too many buses and it would have to become its own route as it interlines with the Q111.

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i disagree! why? because 100 is a all artic depot and the 96/106 do not need artics!

When you say it's an all artic depot do you mean that all the buses it has are artics, or that the depot can only physically handle artics? If it's the first one then you can just send the 40-footers the M96/M106 need to 100th St.

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[*]The QBx1 Co-Op City runs make more sense being based out of GH than ECH.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, and no.

 

Yes, because all the other Co-Op City buses do.

No, because unlike the other Co-Op City buses, it doesn't begin/end in Co-Op City.

 

Turns out moving it to Eastchester hasn't helped in terms of delays either. Plus, I really don't think you should give old, dilapidated buses to a route that carries tons of people. I say, keep it in College Point. It's technically an express bus, anyway. College Point has done a superb job at handling the route for years, and I doubt any other depot can do such a good job.

 

In other news, I think the Bx8 and Bx31 should be operated by Gun Hill. I really don't understand why they're not. Especially the Bx8... the Bx40/42 are operated by Gun Hill and they go to the same bloody place!

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comments in red....

 

id say the B35/B35 LTD should be split cuz its alot of ppl using that bus. ENY is also close by Brownsville area. why not be split?

 

B46/B46 LTD has a long congested route as well. id say let it be split wit ENY and Flatbush because ENY isnt too far from where the B46 runs as well.

 

B61 should be back to its normal route. if its too congested, they should've done a B61/B61 LTD instead of splitting it to the B61/B62.

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id say the B35/B35 LTD should be split cuz its alot of ppl using that bus. ENY is also close by Brownsville area. why not be split?

 

B46/B46 LTD has a long congested route as well. id say let it be split wit ENY and Flatbush because ENY isnt too far from where the B46 runs as well.

 

B61 should be back to its normal route. if its too congested, they should've done a B61/B61 LTD instead of splitting it to the B61/B62.

 

since you asked...

 

There's a B35 "relief" point right over there on 39th & 5th; a hop, skip, and a jump away from Gleason.... what most B35's (leaving Brownsville) do, is either make a final run to McDonald (or Sunset Park), then head back to JG from there... Mother Gaston/Hegeman isn't as close to ENY, as the B35 (along 39th st) is, with respect to Gleason....

 

IMO, you'd have a better argument if you said the B8 should be split b/w ENY & Gleason (or UP).....

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Yes, and no.

 

Yes, because all the other Co-Op City buses do.

No, because unlike the other Co-Op City buses, it doesn't begin/end in Co-Op City.

 

Turns out moving it to Eastchester hasn't helped in terms of delays either. Plus, I really don't think you should give old, dilapidated buses to a route that carries tons of people. I say, keep it in College Point. It's technically an express bus, anyway. College Point has done a superb job at handling the route for years, and I doubt any other depot can do such a good job.

 

In other news, I think the Bx8 and Bx31 should be operated by Gun Hill. I really don't understand why they're not. Especially the Bx8... the Bx40/42 are operated by Gun Hill and they go to the same bloody place!

 

 

It's more like a limited imo. No express costs $2.25 B)

 

When you say it's an all artic depot do you mean that all the buses it has are artics, or that the depot can only physically handle artics? If it's the first one then you can just send the 40-footers the M96/M106 need to 100th St.

 

But then you'd have to wonder if 100th Street is equipped to handle Hybrids. I can't see where they are going to get the RTSs from.

 

B13:Ehhh maybe.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

M2,3:Makes no sense for it to be at MCH.Going across 145St from the west side is a *****.

M31:100ST is artic only.Can't happen.

M60:Don't know WHY you would even go there.This would require all buses to pull in and out of the airport and that is NOT happening!

M79:I guess,why not.

M98:Yeah.....HOW BOUT NO!!Especially with pull ins from Cabrini Blvd that is NOT happening.That would require cutting across 125St end to end and that is a MAJOR no no!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------.

 

Thats odd, because when the M2 & M3 were originally based out of MCH, they didnt have any problems getting to the depot. Obviously because they take different deadhead paths to get to the depot.

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Thats odd, because when the M2 & M3 were originally based out of MCH, they didnt have any problems getting to the depot. Obviously because they take different deadhead paths to get to the depot.

 

when was the M3 based out of mother hale? i live on the M3 route and i dont remember that... the only other depot i remember the M3 running out of was Amsterdam and that was like damn near 20 years ago!

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When you say it's an all artic depot do you mean that all the buses it has are artics, or that the depot can only physically handle artics? If it's the first one then you can just send the 40-footers the M96/M106 need to 100th St.

 

they made it all artic for a reason! i dont think 100 will be getting any new routes no time soon. that was made to handle the lex/3rd ave lines. the only thing i can maybe see happening there is when and if 126 ever close down, the M86 going to Quill and the M15 going to 100, but that would be rough on 100!

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when was the M3 based out of mother hale? i live on the M3 route and i dont remember that... the only other depot i remember the M3 running out of was Amsterdam and that was like damn near 20 years ago!

 

MCH had some trips on the M3 during the midday, wasnt really a split, more like some extra trips to cover ground. The deadhead they took wasnt that bad as they dont go straight down 145th.

 

M86 to Quill? That's going to be one long deadheading. Wouldn't it make sense to send the M86 to 100 and the M15 [at least most of it] to MJQ?

 

That in itself is a pain in the ass deadhead, but on the other hand, operators can just use the West Side Highway to get to the depot much like the M79 operators, I can somewhat see the 86 there, but only for some trips.

 

Imo, when 126 closes, the M15 should split it with MJQ and 100th Street, my only question is will they be able to house the extra artics including the Novas. This would also make you wonder how far the interlining system would go in Manhattan when this happens, like the M15 from MJQ turns into an M14A/D or whatnot (feasible interlining course since the southern terminals are not that far apart)

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Imo, when 126 closes, the M15 should split it with MJQ and 100th Street, my only question is will they be able to house the extra artics including the Novas. This would also make you wonder how far the interlining system would go in Manhattan when this happens, like the M15 from MJQ turns into an M14A/D or whatnot (feasible interlining course since the southern terminals are not that far apart)

 

Wait...126 is closing?:eek:

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since you asked...

 

There's a B35 "relief" point right over there on 39th & 5th; a hop, skip, and a jump away from Gleason.... what most B35's (leaving Brownsville) do, is either make a final run to McDonald (or Sunset Park), then head back to JG from there... Mother Gaston/Hegeman isn't as close to ENY, as the B35 (along 39th st) is, with respect to Gleason....

 

IMO, you'd have a better argument if you said the B8 should be split b/w ENY & Gleason (or UP).....

 

u right.....Brownsville isnt close to ENY.

 

and Yes, B8 should be split. i remember the B8 like this:

-All Ulmer Park

-Split with Ulmer Park and East New York

-All East New York

-Now Jackie Gleason.

 

id say keep it split with jackie gleason and ENY at least. its a long route. (not as long as the B6, but its pretty long.)

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u right.....Brownsville isnt close to ENY.

 

and Yes, B8 should be split. i remember the B8 like this:

-All Ulmer Park

-Split with Ulmer Park and East New York

-All East New York

-Now Jackie Gleason.

 

id say keep it split with jackie gleason and ENY at least. its a long route. (not as long as the B6, but its pretty long.)

 

The B8 is not even THAT close to Gleason to begin with, unless it uses the highway to make its deadheads.

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B8's coming from rockaway av just take linden blvd, caton, ft hamilton, and 37th st (or 39th st) to get to JG....

(pretty much what the B35's do also)

 

B8's coming from 95th st (or the [VA] hospital) either take 3rd or 4th av (usually 4th av), and turn onto 39th st

(most of the SW brooklyn Gleason routes, coming from SW Brooklyn, take 4th av; except for the B11's coming from Lutheran, which actually takes 2nd av, to 39th st)

 

 

I might make a thread on what b/o's on certain routes do to get to their depots...

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Yes, and no.

 

Yes, because all the other Co-Op City buses do.

No, because unlike the other Co-Op City buses, it doesn't begin/end in Co-Op City.

 

Turns out moving it to Eastchester hasn't helped in terms of delays either. Plus, I really don't think you should give old, dilapidated buses to a route that carries tons of people. I say, keep it in College Point. It's technically an express bus, anyway. College Point has done a superb job at handling the route for years, and I doubt any other depot can do such a good job.

 

In other news, I think the Bx8 and Bx31 should be operated by Gun Hill. I really don't understand why they're not. Especially the Bx8... the Bx40/42 are operated by Gun Hill and they go to the same bloody place!

Gun Hill's 40-foot base is primarily NG's which are much newer than the CNG's. Even their Orion V's are just as old as the V CNG's at College Point. Also it's more of a limited-stop route, not really an express. It just happens to be a very fast route.

Wait...126 is closing?:eek:

It's scheduled to close for rehab once MCH reopens in 2012.

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M86 to Quill? That's going to be one long deadheading. Wouldn't it make sense to send the M86 to 100 and the M15 [at least most of it] to MJQ?

 

Not really.The M86 used to be out MJQ when it was a 40ft route and even after it became an artic route.It only moved to 100St when it opened.If 100St didn't open,it'd still be at MJQ to this day.(1)(A)(C)

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Here are my thoughts:

Bronx

Bx4-split with WF

It ends at PBP, deadhead to WF is a bit much

Bx5-split with WF

agree

Bx8-split with GH (SB runs only)

The whole thing needs to be out of GH. I don't get why WF got it in the 1st place and come June it'd be more realistic to have short turns end at PBP

Bx9-split with WF (NB runs only)

Okay quick question how would they split one direction runs. Like what would be the point of a Bx9 pulling out of WF running to Riverdale and deadheading back?

Bx15-split with 126, MV or KB

I forsee that happening come June (split WF/KB). KB's losing the 55 but WF isn't losing any routes (due to cuts) and the Bx15 is supposed to be all Artics. Theres no way WF is going to be able to cover that alone. Plus the Bx41 will be deadheading to Fordham Plaza full time, so its the same route.

Bx26, 28, 29, 30-Split with Eastchester

good idea but I wanna say I'd rather see some 28s come from KB and the rest from ECH

Bx31-split with Gun Hill

Another swap I still don't get

Bx32-back to KB

I see it going back in June

Bx33-after looking at this, I can see why some ppl want it Manhattanville than West Farms

MCH if anything but MHV over WF

Bx34-split with KB (last SB run only)

I agree with the Split but see my answer to the Bx9

Bx40/42-split with WF

I don't want to West Farms bash, but I could see this ending really badly, really quickly. Yes WF is in the middle of the route but they can't even keep up with the Bx19 being Artics

 

Queens

Q83-should go to Jamaica. Late nights from QV

Q111/113-split with JA and FR

Q25/34-split with CS

Q27-split with JA

Q30/31-split with JA/QV/CS

JAM is but so big and the Q27 out of that place would result in something moving someplace else. Plus the 27 runs by QV (short-turns/locals end at Jamaica Av). My main issue with the Q30 is the fact that it really has no business being out of JAM period. If something happens to a bus out in Little Neck, riders get screwed because the depot is so far and the headways are so bad. They should be consistent in that general area and keep all the routes out of QV.

 

 

comments in green, ill have actual splits later

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Q31 at CS/QV, Q30 at JA. Q27 should stay at QV. BX15 at 126,KB but must be Artics because it get about more than 50% of riders. BX4/BX5/BX8 at GH/WF. BX9 at KB/WF. BX26/BX28/BX29/BX30 stay at GH(BX28 can go to KB as well that mean KB/GH). I did say that the BX33 should go to AM, but it could go back to MCH. BX34 should go to KB & BX40/BX42 should stay in WF for good because it run by their.

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