No more repairs on the R-44

[QDover]

The R-44 type car are no longer being repaired. If they have problems that are not able to bear with, the train gets taken out of service for good, so keep fighting 44s because its almost time for retirement. The is going 100% R-46.

[MTR Admiralty]

The R-44 type car are no longer being repaired. If they have problems that are not able to bear with, the train gets taken out of service for good, so keep fighting 44s because its almost time for retirement. The is going 100% R-46.

Not necessarily. There may be a few sets of R32s that hang around. But yeah, the R44s would be off the road by September. Them getting not repaired makes total sense because there is no intention of keeping them right now.

[St Louis Car 09]

 

The R-44 type car are no longer being repaired. If they have problems that are not able to bear with, the train gets taken out of service for good, so keep fighting 44s because its almost time for retirement. The is going 100% R-46.

Is this for real?

[LRG]

Is this for real?

 

Yup he's right. Like if a train has a dead motor they're not going to fix it.

 

ALSO (be prepared), at the pace things are going right now, there's a possibility that they'll be off the road by NEXT MONTH!

[Nova RTS 9147]

Yup he's right. Like if a train has a dead motor they're not going to fix it.

 

ALSO (be prepared), at the pace things are going right now, there's a possibility that they'll be off the road by NEXT MONTH!

 

Dont they have over 150 in service?

[SubwayGuy]

Dont they have over 150 in service?

 

Whatever the exact number is (I don't keep track of these things because they change constantly), it is greatly reduced from even last month, and certainly from 2 months ago.

 

They are going gradually, but make no mistake, they ARE going.

[Fan Railer]

Dont they have over 150 in service?

 

yeah, but they're dropping like flies...

with the R160 order complete, the spare factor is high enough that they can just retire them like that. I believe they're going about a set and a half a week right about now. if not, they will be soon.

[Nova RTS 9147]

Whatever the exact number is (I don't keep track of these things because they change constantly), it is greatly reduced from even last month, and certainly from 2 months ago.

 

They are going gradually, but make no mistake, they ARE going.

 

yeah, but they're dropping like flies...

with the R160 order complete, the spare factor is high enough that they can just retire them like that. I believe they're going about a set and a half a week right about now. if not, they will be soon.

 

So the moral of this story: Get to the and get your R44 pics now!

 

Thanks for the info.

[R32 3838]

Not necessarily. There may be a few sets of R32s that hang around. But yeah, the R44s would be off the road by September. Them getting not repaired makes total sense because there is no intention of keeping them right now.

 

Trust me, The might still be 100% R46's, As for the R32's Im not saying a word.

[R44 5278]

It reminds me of the MK R42s at the Chamber St. Incident a couple of years back in that despite minor frame damages in 2 of the cars, the entire set was reefed with the rest of the CI R42s.

[LRG]

It reminds me of the MK R42s at the Chamber St. Incident a couple of years back in that despite minor frame damages in 2 of the cars, the entire set was reefed with the rest of the CI R42s.

 

Getting rid of those undamaged R42s at the time was a stupid move in my opinion.

[MattTrain]

R44s are the most unique subway cars around, too bad their condition suggests otherwise.

[Fan Railer]

Getting rid of those undamaged R42s at the time was a stupid move in my opinion.

those cars weren't undamaged...

they suffered internal structural frame damage that would have been irreparable.

to put those cars in service would be an unacceptable safety risk to the public. think a little deeper before you post something like that.

[R32 3348]

They do that with any car being retired. They did the same with the R32-R42 classes.

[LRG]

those cars weren't undamaged...

they suffered internal structural frame damage that would have been irreparable.

to put those cars in service would be an unacceptable safety risk to the public. think a little deeper before you post something like that.

 

If you're responding to my post, there were at least TWO cars that were fine but were rid of anyway.

[R32 3348]

those cars weren't undamaged...

they suffered internal structural frame damage that would have been irreparable.

to put those cars in service would be an unacceptable safety risk to the public. think a little deeper before you post something like that.

Only the first 1-2 cars had heavy damage. Cars 3 and 4 had very light damage, and the rest of the train was fine, but they were retired since they probably would have been retired by the time they were to be fixed again.

Is this for real?

They do that with any car being retired. They did the same with the R32-R42 classes.

[SubwayGuy]

those cars weren't undamaged...

they suffered internal structural frame damage that would have been irreparable.

to put those cars in service would be an unacceptable safety risk to the public. think a little deeper before you post something like that.

 

A couple of those cars weren't that badly damaged and could have been repaired fairly easily. The rest of the ones that were scrapped did suffer frame damage and were write offs, but a couple that went to scrap could have been repaired and returned to service.

[R44 5278]

Getting rid of those undamaged R42s at the time was a stupid move in my opinion.

 

Either way, the current fleets of R32 and R42 have the same number of trains as the retiring R44 fleet after the service cuts. Getting off topic, but giving the R42 a small overhaul is a waste of money considering that the trains will need a paintjob later on as only their sides are stainless steel.

[LRG]

Either way, the current fleets of R32 and R42 have the same number of trains as the retiring R44 fleet after the service cuts. Getting off topic, but giving the R42 a small overhaul is a waste of money considering that the trains will need a paintjob later on as only their sides are stainless steel.

 

They could take the rooflines from the R44s and install it on the R42s considering there's are stainless steel.

[R44 5278]

They could take the rooflines from the R44s and install it on the R42s considering there's are stainless steel.

 

Haha, if they are scrapping the R44s entirely to tiny scraps of metal then I'm guessing that the R42s won't use their parts.

 

On a side note, the R44s' exteriors are entirely stainless steel except for the side strip, which really puzzles me as to how much the graffiti removal liquid penetrated their frames when they are 75% protected by stainless steel vs. the R42s having only stainless steel sides. I seriously need to see a picture of the R44s' rotting frames.

[SubwayGuy]

Haha, if they are scrapping the R44s entirely to tiny scraps of metal then I'm guessing that the R42s won't use their parts.

 

On a side note, the R44s' exteriors are entirely stainless steel except for the side strip, which really puzzles me as to how much the graffiti removal liquid penetrated their frames when they are 75% protected by stainless steel vs. the R42s having only stainless steel sides. I seriously need to see a picture of the R44s' rotting frames.

 

It's nothing that special to look at. Just picture the side sill underneath the door threshold. Now cut a small hole in the stainless to see the frame beneath the exterior. Now picture a very rusty, very mildly twisted piece of steel with some holes in it. Now picture that running the length of the car along that sill.

 

Safe (for now), but not for long. Hence why they're going.

[LRG]

It's nothing that special to look at. Just picture the side sill underneath the door threshold. Now cut a small hole in the stainless to see the frame beneath the exterior. Now picture a very rusty, very mildly twisted piece of steel with some holes in it. Now picture that running the length of the car along that sill.

 

Safe (for now), but not for long. Hence why they're going.

 

And compared to their frame, the R42s are structurally sound at least.

 

Bottom line, the 32s and 42s are capable of getting the job done in the long run. Running the R44s any longer will be more detrimental (speaking in general).

[LRG]

I found this post made my Widecab5 on SubChat that many of you should find informative (regarding why the train is rusting out at the frame):

 

Originally Posted by Widecab5

 

On the R-44's the framing is all carbon steel with a stainless skin (one reason for their being overweight). Why is unclear but two most likely explanations are cost to SLC-GSI or that metal technologies had not yet developed (at least as of 1968) to allow the stainless steel framing that was needed. Whatever, the issue was addressed before Pullman-Standard began construction of the R-46's in 1974 and they were most definitely built with stainless steel underframing.

 

The mid-body "blue belly band" on the R-44 was originally a thin sheet metal bridge between the two flash welded sections of stainless steel skin (upper and lower). This was done because during their construction the R-44 bodies were over the prescribed weight and this was a seemingly non-controversial (and desperate) way to shed pounds.

 

Then came the grime, then the graffiti, and with it in 1982 came acid baths. Not only were the bodies scrubbed to base skin, but the bare sheet metal was eventually exposed to the acids. As it hit pre-existing rust pockets on the sheet metal, these were eventually eaten away and the subsequent acids released into the underlying frame members. Moreover, as each train was bathed repeatedly in the acids, and as the fluid more easily invaded the underframing each time, it would run down the verticals to the base, and pool at the sill members until it either evaporated (dried) or was absorbed into the steel (and that was originally very robust steel). As the acid and bare steel co-mingles, the massy goo that results (and is perpetually developing once set in motion) has been gradually decomposing the steel framing from within and pushing against the visible stainless steel skin without like a fist. This threatens the original SLC-GSI flash welds on the back side. It produces those noticeable "dimples" at the sill line of the R-44's (and formerly of the Redbirds and carbon steel SMEE's before them).

 

When the R-44's went to M-K, M-K alerted NYCTA to the issue but TA knew about it long before. M-K recommended a stainless steel bridge sheet to replace the original sheet metal, weight considerations aside, but (apparently because the powers that be felt this too costly given that the R-44's were already too far gone and would only be needed for about another 15 years at most [until approx. 2005]) this was nixed and the sheet metal bridges salvaged or replaced with like materials.

 

Dimples = Rot. Can't stop it. Can't cure it unless you can replace all the underlying steel.

 

The Staten Island R-44's have the same construction, but because they were not bathed in acid over and over (not as much graffiti?) do not exhibit the same kind of inherent deterioration. They are rusted, however, in large part because of exposure to the natural elements of their operating environment for 35 years. As a temporary measure (5-10 years?), CI Shops is cutting vent holes into the body skin beneath the door thresholds and covering them with a screen. The hope is to allow air to circulate within the framing overlays (which are in fair shape at best for their age and construction) to prevent undercar moisture (in this case from rain, snow and frost) from washing at the aging steel any further. You might notice these little screens on the rehabbed SIR R-44's.

 

 

Link: http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=887778

 

Hope this helps!

[R44 5278]

Then, time to roll out the duct tape!

[SubwayGuy]

And compared to their frame, the R42s are structurally sound at least.

 

Bottom line, the 32s and 42s are capable of getting the job done in the long run. Running the R44s any longer will be more detrimental (speaking in general).

 

The 42's are not that long for this world relatively speaking either, but they will try to get 5 years out of them. The bottom line is this is not a good choice but rather a lack of options, and keeping the R32's and R42's around is a lot safer than trying to squeeze any extra life out of the R44's at this point.