On The Subject of R44 Retirements: Possible Preservation

[Ian Lennon]

What about Flushing Meadow Park? There is plenty of room to build something there. You can build a track from Jamaica Yard to have access to it.

[NX Express]

To be honest, they should consider looking at another site to preserve additional subway cars (if they want to save one example from each fleet). Court Street really can't handle it all. Besides, Court Street is being considered for an active station along a future extension of the SAS into Brooklyn.

 

When the is eliminated, City Hall BMT station can be used to store the cars. The actual museum can be in City Hall IRT station. There can be metal detectors...and the two stations can be connected by an underground passageway.

[Grand Concourse]

They can't even have the City Hall loop station open, I really doubt they would use the BMT CH ll platform for that. Although it is possible and there is the room for it. I just really doubt it.

[Guest lance25]

With all this talk of moving the Transit Museum, I'm surprised no one has mentioned expanding the Coney Island Yard to accommodate the Museum's spatial needs.

[MTR Admiralty]

What about Flushing Meadow Park? There is plenty of room to build something there. You can build a track from Jamaica Yard to have access to it.

That is a great idea since FMP is actually between two yards: Corona on the northern end and Jamaica. But you have to go through the Parks Department. Not only that, the tree huggers might bounce off the walls if you want to carve out park space for a transit museum.

When the is eliminated, City Hall BMT station can be used to store the cars. The actual museum can be in City Hall IRT station. There can be metal detectors...and the two stations can be connected by an underground passageway.

No it can't, the IRT station is situated where the turns. That is just totally impractical. How else are you going to turn the ? Bowling Green?

They can't even have the City Hall loop station open, I really doubt they would use the BMT CH ll platform for that. Although it is possible and there is the room for it. I just really doubt it.

City Hall lower level is used to store trains during the midday period. This has been done before the implemenation of the from Whitehall. The is a long line and thus, it may have to turn at City Hall LL or Whitehall to ensure that more service is being pumped. It's basically storage space. You don't want to minimise the amount of storage space available.

[Grand Concourse]

Actually he means maybe 'close off' the platform so that people don't get close to the train. [using baracades.] But still be allowed to take pics of the station itself.

It was opened once for the public on the 100th Anniversary in 2004 [it was a Thursday, the 28th], but after that they closed it up again. I missed it by just one day cuz I was in LI. I was so ticked off.

[MTR Admiralty]

Actually he means maybe 'close off' the platform so that people don't get close to the train. [using baracades.] But still be allowed to take pics of the station itself.

It was opened once for the public on the 100th Anniversary in 2004 [it was a Thursday, the 28th], but after that they closed it up again. I missed it by just one day cuz I was in LI. I was so ticked off.

In a post-9/11 world with all that security phenomena, all plans to permanently reopen City Hall IRT are obliterated. So even if they have all of that security equipment, the City would just say no.

[Bill from Maspeth]

When the is eliminated, City Hall BMT station can be used to store the cars. The actual museum can be in City Hall IRT station. There can be metal detectors...and the two stations can be connected by an underground passageway.

When City Hall Yard is no longer needed to store W trains, Q trains (astoria put-in's and lay-ups) will be stored there.

[SubwayGuy]

All of these offsite museum "expansion" ideas are far fetched and ridiculous. The museum is at Court St. It is NOT going to "Expand" or "relocate" to somewhere completely different in the system, and they are not going to spend millions digging new tunnels specifically for the museum. Remember that Court St was planned as a real station, it was never "meant" to be a museum, and no additional digging was done to make it a museum. It just became one.

 

As I've said before, the only possibility for expansion is to the unused platforms at Hoyt Schermerhorn. That's it. But they're not going to turn part of a yard into a museum, build a new museum, or start connecting unused stations in an intricate under Manhattan network to make a museum that uses parts of 5 stations. There is just no chance in hell that is going to happen so please stop dreaming...

[Joe]

Holy crap, I split for the weekend to play with some trains and when I come back, people are talking about DIGGING TUNNELS under the City just for the Transit Museum.

 

Wow. SubwayGuy, can you drop that slack adjuster on my foot just to make sure this isn't just all a bad dream?

[DJ MC]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[SubwayGuy]

Holy crap, I split for the weekend to play with some trains and when I come back, people are talking about DIGGING TUNNELS under the City just for the Transit Museum.

 

Wow. SubwayGuy, can you drop that slack adjuster on my foot just to make sure this isn't just all a bad dream?

 

No problem: CLANK. Yup, you ain't dreamin'.

[R10 2952]

All of these offsite museum "expansion" ideas are far fetched and ridiculous. The museum is at Court St. It is NOT going to "Expand" or "relocate" to somewhere completely different in the system, and they are not going to spend millions digging new tunnels specifically for the museum. Remember that Court St was planned as a real station, it was never "meant" to be a museum, and no additional digging was done to make it a museum. It just became one.

 

As I've said before, the only possibility for expansion is to the unused platforms at Hoyt Schermerhorn. That's it. But they're not going to turn part of a yard into a museum, build a new museum, or start connecting unused stations in an intricate under Manhattan network to make a museum that uses parts of 5 stations. There is just no chance in hell that is going to happen so please stop dreaming...

 

I ain't dreamin'... All I'm saying is that one day in the not-so-distant future, there will be a relatively large amount of preserved subway cars, and a comparatively small amount of space. If this problem (as minor as it might be), isn't addressed when the museum fleet might one day be twice as big as it is now, then can you imagine the problems? As good a plan as the Hoyt-Schermerhorn storage plan might be, a more permanent solution would eventually be required. To overlook this would be a big mistake...

[Guest lance25]

While following this thread, I've been on the fence concerning this debate. After thinking about it however, it's kind of silly that the museum would need any space especially considering that the only car class that would be retiring anytime soon is the R44. The R32s and R42s should stay here for at least the next five years. The R46s have more than five years left (someone correct me if I'm wrong about this) and the R62s and R68s should be around at the very least through the next couple of decades. The museum won't need more space because there aren't more cars that need to be preserved currently.

[SubwayGuy]

I ain't dreamin'... All I'm saying is that one day in the not-so-distant future, there will be a relatively large amount of preserved subway cars, and a comparatively small amount of space. If this problem (as minor as it might be), isn't addressed when the museum fleet might one day be twice as big as it is now, then can you imagine the problems? As good a plan as the Hoyt-Schermerhorn storage plan might be, a more permanent solution would eventually be required. To overlook this would be a big mistake...

 

Yeah well you can think what you want about it, but that doesn't change the fact that tens and hundreds millions of dollars aren't going to be pulled out of nowhere to dig new tunnels or put trains all over the system in multiple disconnected locations just because the train buffs with no money for their grand ideas want to the museum to save a full sample of everything ever.

 

This is where (historically) other museums have come in and saved cars from a certain end, and this is where that happens, every now and then comes a time to "clean house" in the eyes of TA management and some stuff stays, and some stuff goes. Rather than coming up with cockamamie schemes to make the Transit Museum huge (which will never materialize and are as dumb as those fantasy maps that call for 6 track lines down 10th avenue in Manhattan), it might be better to focus on the very real possibility in the future that some cars may be ticketed for reef or scrap and seen as redundant, and doing the best everyone can to make sure those cars can find new homes at other museums so that they are still saved.

 

This is why I knock those who criticize the BERA's of the world, because if it wasn't for the BERA's, and the Seashore's, there might be even less of this stuff in the world. More might have gone to the scrapper in the 1970's/80's when they were "cleaning house" last.

 

Hey, just being a realist. It's happened before, it can easily happen again.

 

And before you criticize me, remember: I AM a preservationist. I just see things the way they are, not the way they might be in la la land if I'm daydreaming.

[Grand Concourse]

So I guess they wasted time and effort to paint some R33MLs as silverbirds and redfoxes? Cuz I would kinda expect that group to go if yard space is such an issue.

[SubwayGuy]

So I guess they wasted time and effort to paint some R33MLs as silverbirds and redfoxes? Cuz I would kinda expect that group to go if yard space is such an issue.

 

It's not an issue. However someday it will be. Probably during our lifetimes. We'll see what happens.

[Grand Concourse]

It's a shame. I mean not that they are R33mls, but it is nice to see various paint schemes from the past. That would be a shame to no longer see in person.

[SubwayGuy]

It's a shame. I mean not that they are R33mls, but it is nice to see various paint schemes from the past. That would be a shame to no longer see in person.

 

And somewhere at that point in time, the buffs who loved the BMT Multi-Sections, the BMT Bluebirds, the IRT Composites, and the MUDC Manhattan El cars will sympathize with your pain

[R10 2952]

Yeah well you can think what you want about it, but that doesn't change the fact that tens and hundreds millions of dollars aren't going to be pulled out of nowhere to dig new tunnels or put trains all over the system in multiple disconnected locations just because the train buffs with no money for their grand ideas want to the museum to save a full sample of everything ever.

 

This is where (historically) other museums have come in and saved cars from a certain end, and this is where that happens, every now and then comes a time to "clean house" in the eyes of TA management and some stuff stays, and some stuff goes. Rather than coming up with cockamamie schemes to make the Transit Museum huge (which will never materialize and are as dumb as those fantasy maps that call for 6 track lines down 10th avenue in Manhattan), it might be better to focus on the very real possibility in the future that some cars may be ticketed for reef or scrap and seen as redundant, and doing the best everyone can to make sure those cars can find new homes at other museums so that they are still saved.

 

This is why I knock those who criticize the BERA's of the world, because if it wasn't for the BERA's, and the Seashore's, there might be even less of this stuff in the world. More might have gone to the scrapper in the 1970's/80's when they were "cleaning house" last.

 

Hey, just being a realist. It's happened before, it can easily happen again.

 

And before you criticize me, remember: I AM a preservationist. I just see things the way they are, not the way they might be in la la land if I'm daydreaming.

 

1. I am not in "la la land", "day-dreaming"; I am as much of a realist as you are (i.e. I am not one of those 'foamers').

2. I wasn't criticizing you. I was just explaining my concern that one day, there might not be enough room for the old cars.

3. I'm not saying that half the city should be dug up to build miles and miles of accomodatrions for the Transit Museum; I'm just saying that accomodations will have to be made (and not necessarily major/large accomodations).

4. I understand the point being made. I simply have a different way of approaching it/thinking about it. That's all.

 

Peace:cool:

[SubwayGuy]

Well as a realist, I am telling you that extending the Transit Museum platforms in either direction (your idea) would cost a massive amount of money. It would also remove some of the authenticity of the Court St. station, which contains an electrical closet at one end of the station, and a signal tower and relay room at the other end.

 

And building a "lower level" beneath the platform level would cost even more. The amount of money that would be spent on such a project would dwarf the museum's budget, and if paid for out of operations would negatively impact operations, which is the one thing the museum DOESN'T want because you do not want operating departments to begin questioning the preservation of cars. That's what happened in the 70's and 80's and why so many perfectly good cars like 1208 were scrapped and are no longer here.

[INDman]

The only possible solution I see is that the TM rotate their collection. A change up of the cars displayed would be great, say every 6 or 12 months different cars would be on display. It's too bad that the attitude twards preservation in the Untied States is not the same as that in the UK. The London Underground has a museum very much like ours and the have a museum yard of which they give tours of at times too.

[Joe]

Replace NYCHA properties with museum yards.

 

Hahaha.

[LRG]

Replace NYCHA properties with museum yards.

 

Hahaha.

 

That'd be awesome. trains can turn early at Utica Avenue and park across the street from me since I live across the street from slum housing...lol. I won't have to wake up to eyesore buildings anymore but rather the sound of trains dumping and what not :cool:

[Zman]

From what I've heard, this Sunday will be the last day in service for the R44's. Get 'em while you can.

 

After Sunday, you'll have to go to Staten Island to ride an R44.