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"To B37 Or Not To B37 -- It's Really Not Much Of A Question


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NY Post.com

 

"To B37 or not to B37 -- it's really not much of a question"

To seniors, it's a vital link to Downtown. To the MTA, it's an easy way to save $3 million.

 

By: Helen Klein

 

Courier-Life

Last Updated: 12:07 PM May 11,2010

Posted: 12:07 PM May 11,2010

 

Seniors don't use the subway!

 

That was the message of more than 60 Bay Ridge residents who protested the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's plan to eliminate the B37 bus, which links the neighborhood to Downtown Brooklyn.

 

The MTA says that the bus line, which runs along the Third Avenue shopping and dining corridor on its' way Downtown is lightly used and duplicates service provided along Fourth Avenue provided by the R train.

 

And besides, the Third Avenue portion of the B37 would be replaced by a rerouted B70, the bus line that currently runs along Eighth Avenue between the Veteran's Administration hospital and the 36th Street subway junction in Sunset Park. From there, passengers can take subways to Downtown or even to Manhattan.

 

But that's not good enough say neighborhood's senior citizens, who prefer to take a bus to Downtown because they can't get up and down subway stairs.

 

"The preponderance of seniors in the area can't take the subway", said senior advocate Jane Kelly. "So it's really not an alternative."

 

Not one subway station in Bay Ridge is handicapped accessible, Kelly pointed out, and when the 86th Street station is finally redone, it will not have an elevator.

 

Peter Killen, the executive director of the Bay Ridge Consumer Federation, said if the MTA can't afford to run the bus day and night, it should at least provide service in the mornings and late afternoons, when old timers, who are unable to use the subway, tend to travel Downtown.

 

"Just give us some bus service", he demanded.

 

The rally was sponsered by Assemblywoman Janele Hyer-Spencer who said the turnout "showed that we will not let the MTA take away this lifeline to our community without a fight."

 

That "lifeline" is used by just 3,197 people on the average workday -- making it the 158th busiest bus line in a system that has only 194 bus routes, MTA statistics show.

 

Eliminating the B37, part of a restructuring of other lines in the neighborhood, would save $2.8 million per year, the agency added.

 

hklein@cnglocal.com

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The mta didn't have to hide behind the reason of the 37 being duplicative.... that's not the reason ppl. don't take that route... the B63 is just as duplicative, running parallel to the 4th av lines to the east (instead of to the west as the 37 does)... Simply put, the route is outdated...

 

Access a ride? FWIW, Bay Ridge residents should've been using the B37 all this time... and I'm not buying that it's only seniors that are fighting to keep this route around... it's also the middle aged, able bodied folk (that don't even use the service) that wanna have their cake & eat it too... full knowing they got their beloved x27 on shore rd... that x27 stop on bay ridge av/3rd av is a heavy dropoff stop... and from what I see, NONE of those people are waiting for 37's...

 

hell, of those 3,197 ppl. or w/e, I'd love to know how many out of that #, are: a] the "senior" population & b] infact riding from bay ridge to downtown....

 

The route doesn't serve much of a purpose anymore - and I will keep repeating that about the B37.

This cut will be 2.8 million well saved....

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There's something called Access A Ride....USE IT!!!!

 

 

You See, It's not that easy, I live on 3rd and 65th at a bus stop and the access a ride bus comes only 2 times a month. Seniors can't wait every 2 times a month to do things they need every week

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You See, It's not that easy, I live on 3rd and 65th at a bus stop and the access a ride bus comes only 2 times a month. Seniors can't wait every 2 times a month to do things they need every week

 

Critics of the B37 like JFK and B35 mention the B63 and (R) train are redudant.

Yet in the Bushwick/Ridgewood coordior between Flushing Ave and Halsey St. the B57, B54, B52 B38 and B26 along with the (M) are all within a mile apart of each other from Broadway-Brooklyn to the Ridgewood Transit Center.

 

The B37 does get riders mostly weekdays while not granted SRO and even more than say the B31 other than rush hours which only overnight service is being cut. Also i don't think it's fair that a route like the M8 crosstown in the Greenwich Village/Lower East Side area which probably had ridership similar to the B37 is saved.

 

I still feel that the B37 should just reduce it's hours running weekdays 530am-11pm and Saturdays 7am-11pm. B63 is a slow route that takes forever from Bay Ridge-Downtown Brooklyn.

 

 

The only agreement i have w/ JFK and B35 with changes to the B37 is that Sunday and Overnight B37 should be gone.

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...Yet in the Bushwick/Ridgewood coordior between Flushing Ave and Halsey St. the B57, B54, B52 B38 and B26 along with the (M) are all within a mile apart of each other from Broadway-Brooklyn to the Ridgewood Transit Center.

 

Out of what you just said, the only 2 that are actually the closest to each other the entire trip is the B26 & B52, but its still about a 10 block difference. The B57 doesn't stop near any of the ones you said except in downtown Bklyn (except for the B38 by the cemetary). True, the B26, B52, & B54 share the same terminals (except for the B54 downtown but the same general area), those 3 are used frequently for the different sides of Bushwick (the B26: closest to the cemetary, B54: closest to Williamsburg and B52 in the middle).

Also, even though the B54 mirrors the (M2) train from Bway to Ridgewood Term, there are several bus stops that the train doesn't go near that are used a lot.

The B57 is in a league of its own, since it doesn't meet any of those buses except for when its downtown.

 

Wirelessly posted via (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 4.6; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

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There's something called Access A Ride....USE IT!!!!

I always say I don't equate elderly as being a disability as it stands now the Paratransit System in New York City is in shambles unorginazed and run very poorly and for a lack of better words it is in a state of disrepair I don't know how NYCT allows someone with a Short Term Disability to continue to use/abuse the service when someone who really needs it is denied I think it is time for NYCT to dig their heels in and take full responsibility for the services that they administer they should also visit other states to see how their paratransit systems are run and implement their findings here what the people with disabilities need is a system that is run effectively and efficiently
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You See, It's not that easy, I live on 3rd and 65th at a bus stop and the access a ride bus comes only 2 times a month. Seniors can't wait every 2 times a month to do things they need every week

 

I know a lady who use it across the street where I live and they come everyday in the morning and evening time...mess up part about this is during the midday she drive her car..she's not allow to do that....BTW she's a bad driver,so she should use access a Ride what ever she need to go.

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I know a lady who use it across the street where I live and they come everyday in the morning and evening time...mess up part about this is during the midday she drive her car..she's not allow to do that....BTW she's a bad driver,so she should use access a Ride what ever she need to go.
She is not the first and won't be the last to abuse the Paratransit System People like her should be banned from using the service and the main reason that this type of stuff goes on is because NYCT is laxed they don't do audits or investigations furthermore they use outside/contracted medical offices to do the certificatons instead of using inhouse MAC centers to certify these people
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What everyone has to realize is that bus usage in northern Brooklyn is much heavier than in southern Brooklyn.

 

That said, if the MTA had only made their process transparent for cutting bus routes, we would not be having this discussion right now if the B37 should stay or go. They presented a lot of numbers and criteria, but never explained how the decisions were made. They showed historical usage that the B71 had a 29% increase in ridership in the past 5 years but chose to discontinue it anyway. They never showed their projections for passenger loss (if any) from reducing service. They chose to return the B4 partial weekday service when their own numbers showed more people would have benefitted and it would have costed less if they chose to return weekend service instead. They are discontinuing X27 and X28 weekend express bus service when virtually all MTA Bus Company weekend ridership is lower and those routes are retaining their weekend service.

 

Anyone who thinks that this process was based on a purely analytical basis is fooling themselves.

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meh...

 

bus usage in northern brooklyn is heavier, due to there being more routes that serve downtown brooklyn (the feeder system based off it), for one... and two, ppl tend to rely less on the subway, compared to southern brooklyn; which has the brighton, west end, culver, and sea beach all in decent proximity of each other....

 

but, north of eastern parkway, your next subway line is at fulton... north of that, it's along broadway.... then you have the L north of that, traveling through bushwick & williamsburg....

 

 

and I'd tend to think most ppl. on here realize that logic & (deep) consistent analyses play no part in these "draconian", "doomsday" cuts.... whereas the general riding public doesn't think twice about none of what we in the transit community constantly discuss....

 

In plain english, they could give a s*** as to WHY one entire route got cut over another... why one route got service cuts over another, why one route is getting rerouted somewheres else over another.... etc etc...

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When I stated that bus usage was heavier in northen Brooklyn than southern Brooklyn, I was mainly thinking that auto ownership and access to an automaobile (meaning virtually no two car householdss) is lower in northern Brooklyn.

 

What you say about subway availablity below Eastern Parkway, may play a small part, but I think most of the people using the subway to commute to work are going to Manhattan, not Downtown Brooklyn so I'm not sure how valid your theory is.

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Good point in that first paragraph... I can even throw in, things like income disparities/levels & property values & what not, b/w the two halves of the boroughs if you'd like....

 

 

BUT... the second part of your post....

I suppose your theories are anymore valid than anyone else's on here... you can play that pissing match game if you'd like....

 

Gettin off all that...

Yeah, most ppl. take the subway to/from manhattan.... okay.

Don't see what that has to do w/ the fact that there are a greater number of bus routes in the more northern half of the borough, compared to the southern half... That was the focal point of that last post of mine... This isn't about people working in downtown brooklyn vs people working in manhattan & their commutes.... but since you bring it up, ever stopped to think people take the train, from manhattan, to downtown brooklyn, to catch any one of those buses?

 

please stop trying to create parallels b/w what I'm saying, and putting your own little spin on things in accordance to what I say.... and then telling me my theories aren't all that valid... Even if so happens that it they are or aren't. It's like you're so quick to discredit someone... and it's not only me you do that with....

 

 

It's like:

me saying: 2+2=4...

you then saying: but you also have to consider the fact that 1+1+1+1=4

 

if I have 2 pairs of pennies, how the hell is it anymore false than 4 pennies equating to 4 cents... that's the equivalent of what you do sometimes...

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Not everybody can have a one-seat ride. The riders in Bay Ridge still have the option of taking the new B70 to Bay Ridge Avenue (?) at 5th Avenue and transferring to the B63 to go Downtown Brooklyn, or crosstown routes like the B4 and B16 to 5th Avenue for the B63. The only thing that they can really say is that the B63 doesn't go as far into Downtown Brooklyn as the B37.

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Not everybody can have a one-seat ride. The riders in Bay Ridge still have the option of taking the new B70 to Bay Ridge Avenue (?) at 5th Avenue and transferring to the B63 to go Downtown Brooklyn, or crosstown routes like the B4 and B16 to 5th Avenue for the B63. The only thing that they can really say is that the B63 doesn't go as far into Downtown Brooklyn as the B37.

 

I would say the 63 doesn't even serve downtown brooklyn; it avoids it...

or, lemme put it this way - the "heart" of downtown brooklyn....

 

Regardless of man-made boundaries, that's the one argument I haven't heard/read from any of these ppl. crying foul over the B37 cut.... Really leads credence to the idea behind these protesters (or w/e you wanna call them) don't use the route.....

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I would say the 63 doesn't even serve downtown brooklyn; it avoids it...

or, lemme put it this way - the "heart" of downtown brooklyn....

 

Regardless of man-made boundaries, that's the one argument I haven't heard/read from any of these ppl. crying foul over the B37 cut.... Really leads credence to the idea behind these protesters (or w/e you wanna call them) don't use the route.....

 

When i lived in SW Brooklyn until 7-8 years ago, at height of both the Stillwell and Manhattan Bridge construction projects. I was attending Long Island Univ Brooklyn campus at time for both classes (2nd bachelor's degree)and work.

 

If i was not in hurray, i would take the B37-B64-74 'home' to the sea gate area once a week or sometimes to go shopping on Saturdays. Not sure in recent years but around 2002/2003, when i would occasional use it, usually in the 6-7pm hour the B37 Bay Ridge bound rarely had SRO but never 'empty' either. Weekdays the B37 does get more ridership than the B24 or M8 which despite service hours being cut was saved. That why i always felt the B37 should be a weekday only line. Even an offical that was commented on in that NY Post article that EE Local brought up, IMO made a fair and honest compromise plea to at least run some form of B37 service.

 

"Peter Killen, the executive director of the Bay Ridge Consumer Federation, said if the MTA can't afford to run the bus day and night, it should at least provide service in the mornings and late afternoons, when old timers, who are unable to use the subway, tend to travel Downtown (Brooklyn)."

 

However on Saturdays and especially Sundays ridership on the B37, 'tanks' and only gets ridership in the coordiors which i describe in a moment. Often, there are no zero riders in sections particuarly after 9pm weekends and holidays.

 

 

The busiest areas of the B37 would usually be two areas. One the area between Downtown and 9th St. and the other between 60th St. and 86th.That why from my experience on being a former semi rider, i always felt the B37 should be a weekday only line with these budget cuts.

 

I am sure the ridership patterns in 2010 is almost the same on the B37 compared to 2002/2003 so that is my take on the B37. Reactions?:eek:

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I live in 5th Avenue near Union Street, and I will definitely miss the B37. It's a nice trip to/from Bay Ridge. (I once had a 16 minute trip from 86th street at 9PM cause no one uses the route late). The 37 will be missed, but there are bigger and MORE vital routes worth saving. B39, B71, B51 are the top three on my list. I don't see why, especially after the B37 is cut, the MTA doesn't have the B103 make local stops or at very least stops at Union, 9th and before the expressway on 3rd Avenue. That would add five minutes to the trip. Not horrible. If they can do that, the B37 won't be as missed because the B70 replaces it in the south and the B103 in the north. The B63 is slow as molasses. The (R) is completely unreliable, but in the wider scope of things, I'd give up the B37 before many of these other routes. The B63 may skip the heart of downtown, but it is a 4 short block walk to Fulton Mall. I really hope the MTA considers having stops for the B103 along 3rd Avenue though to replace what is being lost when the B37 is gone.

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I live in 5th Avenue near Union Street, and I will definitely miss the B37. It's a nice trip to/from Bay Ridge. (I once had a 16 minute trip from 86th street at 9PM cause no one uses the route late). The 37 will be missed, but there are bigger and MORE vital routes worth saving. B39, B71, B51 are the top three on my list. I don't see why, especially after the B37 is cut, the MTA doesn't have the B103 make local stops or at very least stops at Union, 9th and before the expressway on 3rd Avenue. That would add five minutes to the trip. Not horrible. If they can do that, the B37 won't be as missed because the B70 replaces it in the south and the B103 in the north. The B63 is slow as molasses. The (R) is completely unreliable, but in the wider scope of things, I'd give up the B37 before many of these other routes. The B63 may skip the heart of downtown, but it is a 4 short block walk to Fulton Mall. I really hope the MTA considers having stops for the B103 along 3rd Avenue though to replace what is being lost when the B37 is gone.

 

I agree with you jacsnyy 110% on your above comments. While i also will miss the B37 the B39 B71 B51 B4 service to Knapp St in Sheapshead Bay and B64 to/from Stillwell among Brooklyn bus routes are much more urgent to save.

And good idea of adding stops at say Union and 9 Sts. along 3rd Ave as a partial replacement for the B37. Still the B37 IMO could have stayed as a weekday only route for the reasons i been giving before and I won't repeat unless asked.

 

I am surprised not more people in Northern Brooklyn particuarly the political leaders from Williamsburg/Greenpoint have not been more vocal in the local borowide and citywide papers about the B39 cuts.:tdown:

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I suppose your theories are anymore valid than anyone else's on here... you can play that pissing match game if you'd like....

 

Gettin off all that...

Yeah, most ppl. take the subway to/from manhattan.... okay.

Don't see what that has to do w/ the fact that there are a greater number of bus routes in the more northern half of the borough, compared to the southern half... That was the focal point of that last post of mine... This isn't about people working in downtown brooklyn vs people working in manhattan & their commutes.... but since you bring it up, ever stopped to think people take the train, from manhattan, to downtown brooklyn, to catch any one of those buses?

 

please stop trying to create parallels b/w what I'm saying, and putting your own little spin on things in accordance to what I say.... and then telling me my theories aren't all that valid... Even if so happens that it they are or aren't. It's like you're so quick to discredit someone... and it's not only me you do that with....

 

 

 

I really don't know why you are always getting so upset at me. No one else seems to. I'm not trying to have a pissing match or to discredit anybody.

 

First of all, since you brought it up, I don't think there are many people taking the train from Manhattan and changing in Downtown Brooklyn to get a bus. There doesn't seem much of need to do that unless you want to get off the train to ride longer on the bus so you can get a seat at the first stop. There are very few areas north of Fulton Street where you need a bus to access the subway.

 

In southern Brooklyn because of the lack of subways in the southeastern portion of the borough, many people need to take the bus to reach a train.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have brought up people working in Manhattan. Let me say it differently. You said that one of the reasons bus usage is heavier north of Fulton Street is because so many bus routes north of Fulton Street go to Downtown Brooklyn wheras below Eastern Parkway people have a choice of many more subway lines to take.

 

What I was trying to say was most of those people on the trains you mentioned are going to Manhattan not Downtown Brooklyn, but that is still irrelevant because the numbers going to Downtown Brooklyn by train would still be significant.

 

So your point is valid. But I don't believe it is the primary reason why bus usage is heavier north of Eastern Parkway because I could make a counter argument, that more people in southern Brooklyn use a bus to connect to a train than in northern Brooklyn because the whole southeastern portion of the borough lacks subway service, so by that measure, bus service should be heavier in southern Brooklyn. However, it isn't. That's why I believe the automobile theory is the primary reason why usage is heavier in the northern part of the borough, and that the fact that the housing is denser and the routes spaced closer together.

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