The lines affected by the cuts the worst?

[Shortline Bus]

Gerritsen Beach is far from "rich". At best it is middle class. Have you ever been there and seen some of those small houses on tiny lots?

 

True. I mistyped and meant to say Bergen Beach/Mill Basin have expensive homes and are among one of the richest neighborhhods in Brooklyn not Gerristean Beach. Thanks for clearing it up.B)

 

With that said, I still stand by my earlier comments that handful at best between Gerrtisen and their nearest subway station are using the B31 Midnight Hours.B)

[checkmatechamp13]

Would it? Because then it wouldnt make sense for it to run the M9 to where it runs now.

 

The M21 would run across Houston Street and terminate near the FDR Drive. The M9 would take over the section on Avenue C and until the terminal at 27th(?) Street.

[Luis1985]

its a really bad choice to extend the M5 down to south ferry. they shouldve just left the M1 alone. they gonna regreat doing this BIG TIME!

[Amtrak7]

Of course those people dont have to be stranded. What the MTA should do is extend the N48 or N49 to Woodbury Crossways via Jericho Turnpike, the N81 should continue up S.Oyster Bay Rd to serve the Shoprite and shopping areas on Woodbury Rd, then go left onto Woodbury Rd into Hicksville (via the N94 routing). Portions of the N95 could've been replaced by the N70, and some N23's in rush hours could go via W.Shore Rd to serve the area left by the N28.

 

In your rides of the N94, do most of the riders come from Crossways or the Shoprite? I like your proposals, and wish they could be implemented, but there is one big barrier:

 

The N81 is the only route on Old Country Road between S Oyster Bay and Rt 107. The N79 uses Plainview Road in this stretch. I think the MTA will think this ridership base (National Grid/LIPA) is more important than the Shoprite/Crossways ridership. Although rerouting the N78/79 down Old Country won't sacrifice many passengers from the mostly-residential Plainview Road, I doubt the MTA would do this.

[Shortline Bus]

Good riddance to the X32...that bus route really isn't needed at all...it costs too much to run and at what price? NO ONE USES IT!!!

 

 

 

The M21 will still run on weekdays though.

 

I am sure the only reason the M21 still running at least weekdays is related to fact its only bus line that stops near the Manhattan VA Medical Center as well.:confused:

[BrooklynBus]

I still stand by my earlier comments that handful at best between Gerrtisen and their nearest subway station are using the B31 Midnight Hours.

 

The MTA reports states there are 54 overnight users of the B31, but I heard that all of those people get off or on before Gerritsen Beach and really there are zero riders in Gerritsen Beach.

[checkmatechamp13]

The MTA reports states there are 54 overnight users of the B31, but I heard that all of those people get off or on before Gerritsen Beach and really there are zero riders in Gerritsen Beach.

 

According to the service cuts booklet, the B31 gets 36 riders at night, below the 45 rider threshold required to keep late night service.

 

For future reference, here are the late night ridership figures:

 

B75 - 14 riders, M8 - 14 riders, M22 - 15 riders, B39 - 16 riders, B67 - 21 riders, M66 - 24 riders, M50 - 27 riders, M16 - 27 riders, Q30 - 28 riders, Bx34 - 31 riders, B37 - 32 riders, B45 - 33 riders, B64 - 33 riders, B31 - 36 riders, B77 - 39 riders, M1 - 39 riders, B57 - 41 riders, B65 - 41 riders, B7 - 44 riders, M79 - 46 riders, M23 - 47 riders, Bx10 - 51 riders, B14 - 51 riders, B25 - 53 riders, Q59 - 53 riders, M2 - 57 riders, B48 - 58 riders, M96 - 59 riders, B1 - 65 riders, Bx22 - 70 riders, M42 - 71 riders, Q36 - 78 riders, Q28 - 80 riders, Bx27 - 83 riders, B68 - 84 riders, M103 - 85 riders, S51 - 87 riders, Q55 - 88 riders, B63 - 89 riders, Q1 - 89 riders, B26 - 92 riders, B3 - 93 riders, Q2 - 95 riders, M86 - 96 riders, B47 - 97 riders, B52 - 98 riders, M102 - 99 riders, M7 - 104 riders, B60 - 104 riders, Q56 - 107 riders, B43 - 107 riders, Bx35 - 109 riders, Q12 - 114 riders, B36 - 124 riders, Bx21 - 126 riders, B42 - 126 riders, B54 - 129 riders, S40 - 130 riders, M104 - 131 riders, S62 - 135 riders, B17 - 139 riders, B38 - 142 riders, Bx28 - 145 riders, Q24 - 146 riders, S78 - 147 riders, Q43 - 149 riders, Q27 - 151 riders, B8 - 151 riders, S53 - 156 riders, S48 - 158 riders, Q83 - 162 riders, Q54 - 164 riders, S74 - 167 riders, S46 - 168 riders, Q17 - 169 riders, Bx41 - 171 riders, Bx9 - 173 riders, Q46 - 179 riders, B61/62 - 202 riders, Q5 - 207 riders, B82 - 214 riders, B12 - 220 riders, Q85 - 224 riders, Bx40 - 227 riders, Bx36 - 241 riders, Q4 - 243 riders, Bx19 - 244 riders, M101 - 261 riders, M14 - 267 riders, Bx12 - 267 riders, B44 - 280 riders, M60 - 319 riders, Q58 - 319 riders, Q3 - 328 riders, B41 - 329 riders, B35 - 340 riders, Bx6 - 365 riders, Bx15 - 378 riders, M15 - 379 riders, B6 - 387 riders, B46 - 503 riders, Q44 - 521 riders, B15 - 574 riders

 

All of these riders are the total numbers on the route between 1 AM and 5 AM on an average night.

[BJC]

O

The X32 is a very important line to those who have to travel to the Bronx School of Science. Despite cutting through the heart of Flushing, the X32 is an effective way to get to the Bronx without painstakingly cutting through the very heart of Manhattan or spending who knows how much by cab. With the X32 cut, it will take a much longer time to get there, and it can result in some students dropping out of that school because they can't afford the time and money to get there.

 

 

I'll just tell the student just take the Q 44 and find your way to school from there.

[MTR Admiralty]

I'll just tell the student just take the Q 44 and find your way to school from there.

No, that's not a good recommendation.

Just take the cheese bus, or deal with the subway. Everyone else does it.

[checkmatechamp13]

Stupid question: Will there be a period of time after the service cuts when the MTA restores certain discontinued routes if the change is found to be extremely inconvenient? Will they wait a month or so before adjusting any routes? For example, how long would it take if they were to bring back a route like the B39 or the B71 if there was enough protest?

[BrooklynBus]

According to the service cuts booklet, the B31 gets 36 riders at night, below the 45 rider threshold required to keep late night service.

 

For future reference, here are the late night ridership figures:

 

B75 - 14 riders, M8 - 14 riders, M22 - 15 riders, B39 - 16 riders, B67 - 21 riders, M66 - 24 riders, M50 - 27 riders, M16 - 27 riders, Q30 - 28 riders, Bx34 - 31 riders, B37 - 32 riders, B45 - 33 riders, B64 - 33 riders, B31 - 36 riders, B77 - 39 riders, M1 - 39 riders, B57 - 41 riders, B65 - 41 riders, B7 - 44 riders, M79 - 46 riders, M23 - 47 riders, Bx10 - 51 riders, B14 - 51 riders, B25 - 53 riders, Q59 - 53 riders, M2 - 57 riders, B48 - 58 riders, M96 - 59 riders, B1 - 65 riders, Bx22 - 70 riders, M42 - 71 riders, Q36 - 78 riders, Q28 - 80 riders, Bx27 - 83 riders, B68 - 84 riders, M103 - 85 riders, S51 - 87 riders, Q55 - 88 riders, B63 - 89 riders, Q1 - 89 riders, B26 - 92 riders, B3 - 93 riders, Q2 - 95 riders, M86 - 96 riders, B47 - 97 riders, B52 - 98 riders, M102 - 99 riders, M7 - 104 riders, B60 - 104 riders, Q56 - 107 riders, B43 - 107 riders, Bx35 - 109 riders, Q12 - 114 riders, B36 - 124 riders, Bx21 - 126 riders, B42 - 126 riders, B54 - 129 riders, S40 - 130 riders, M104 - 131 riders, S62 - 135 riders, B17 - 139 riders, B38 - 142 riders, Bx28 - 145 riders, Q24 - 146 riders, S78 - 147 riders, Q43 - 149 riders, Q27 - 151 riders, B8 - 151 riders, S53 - 156 riders, S48 - 158 riders, Q83 - 162 riders, Q54 - 164 riders, S74 - 167 riders, S46 - 168 riders, Q17 - 169 riders, Bx41 - 171 riders, Bx9 - 173 riders, Q46 - 179 riders, B61/62 - 202 riders, Q5 - 207 riders, B82 - 214 riders, B12 - 220 riders, Q85 - 224 riders, Bx40 - 227 riders, Bx36 - 241 riders, Q4 - 243 riders, Bx19 - 244 riders, M101 - 261 riders, M14 - 267 riders, Bx12 - 267 riders, B44 - 280 riders, M60 - 319 riders, Q58 - 319 riders, Q3 - 328 riders, B41 - 329 riders, B35 - 340 riders, Bx6 - 365 riders, Bx15 - 378 riders, M15 - 379 riders, B6 - 387 riders, B46 - 503 riders, Q44 - 521 riders, B15 - 574 riders

 

All of these riders are the total numbers on the route between 1 AM and 5 AM on an average night.

 

You are correct. It is 36. Somehow the number 54 stuck in my mind. I should have double checked it.

[checkmatechamp13]

I wrote a couple of letters to the MTA saying which routes should be restored in some form or another. I used some of my own opinions plus a few ideas from these boards that I thought made sense. I am also aware that it may be too late for some changes (like combining the B69 and B71, as they have already updated the signs):

 

Manhattan Bus service:

 

Have select M5 buses terminate at Houston Street-LaGuardia Place:

Currently, the frequency of the M6 is lower than that of the M5. Therefore, the portion of Broadway/6th Avenue below Houston Street does not need the extra buses. Also, the M5 is already a very long route, and this proposed extension would make it even longer, running from the George Washington Bridge Bus Terminal down to South Ferry. As a result of its length, this route would become very delay-prone. By terminating certain buses (possibly every 3rd bus) at Houston Street, you wouldn't be subjecting those buses to traffic in Lower Manhattan, meaning that those buses wouldn't be delayed if there was congestion in Lower Manhattan.

 

Maintain M98 service to at least 59th Street, as opposed to terminating at 68th Street:

The MTA's plan to discontinue back M98 service to 68th Street means that the M98 would miss some vital connections and stop well short of Midtown Manhattan. If the M98 were to run to 59th Street, customers would still have a connection to the F train at 63rd Street and the N, Q, and R trains at 59th Street, as well as a connection to the Q32 bus to Queens, and a connection to the Roosevelt Island Tramway at 59th Street-2nd Avenue. Even better would be to have the M98 have service maintained to 42nd Street, which would serve Grand Central and be much closer to the United Nations on 1st Avenue. However, I find it a necessity to maintain service at least to 59th Street.

 

Maintain weekend M50 service:

The discontinuation of the M50 would leave no crosstown service between 42nd Street and 57th Street. The MTA says that the direct cost per rider for running M50 service is $3.29 per passenger. However, with the discontinuation of the M27 bus (in total), cost efficiency would definitely improve, probably to $2.25 to $2.50 per passenger.

 

Brooklyn Bus Service:

 

Combine B69 service with B71 service:

The MTA currently plans to reroute the B69 onto 7th Avenue south of Grand Army Plaza, and reducing the frequency of the B67 so that the frequency of buses along 7th Avenue remains the same. I propose that, instead of that, B69 buses could be rerouted from south of Grand Army Plaza to Union Street to replace the B71 in Brownstone Brooklyn. I find that discontinuing the B71 a bad idea because the route has seen a 29.4% increase in weekday ridership over the past 5 years, and a 35.4% increase in weekend ridership over the past 5 years. This would maintain access to the Brooklyn Public Library, Brooklyn Museum, and Botanic Gradens for residents of Brownstone Brooklyn, which is not provided on the B65 or extended B61 bus, both of which are a half mile or more from the B71's route in

Brownstone Brooklyn. As a result of this, I feel that this new B69/B71 combination route should run on weekends as well as weekdays (the B69 has seen an increase of weekend ridership of 9.8% over the past 5 years).

 

Maintain off-peak B4 service in Sheepshead Bay:

The MTA's proposal to discontinu off-peak B4 service east of Coney Island Avenue is poorly thought out. There are many points of interest along the Sheepshead Bay waterfront, including a movie theater, diners, boat-based activities, etc. First of all, the MTA's own numbers show that it would be more efficient to restore off-peak service than to restore peak-hour service. 1,600 weekday passengers would still be impacted, and 2,300 weekend passengers would still be impacted. To get the weekly figure, that would mean that 1,600 x 5 = 8,000 + 2,300 = 10,300 passengers weekly that would still be affected. 500 weekday passengers would not be affected. 500 x 5 = 2,500. The percentage of passengers no longer affected would be 2,500 / (10,300 + 2,500) = 2,500 / 12, 800 or about 19.5% of the

passengers who would no longer be affected. However, it would reduce the projected savings by 50%. If money can be found to restore service at a less efficient time (peak hours), it can be found to restore service at a more efficient time (off-peak hours).

 

Maintain B64 service to Coney Island:

The B64 has seen a very large increase in ridership over the past 5 years. Weekday ridership increased by 11.1% and weekend ridership increased by 12.9%. However, under the MTA's plan to truncate service back to 25th Avenue/Harway Avenue, this would severely hurt ridership in Coney Island. Out of the 2,500 weekday passengers and 3,250 weekend passengers that would be projected to use the B82, I predict that only 1,700 weekday passengers and 2,400 weekend passengers would actually do so. The reason is that half of all B82s terminate at Cropsey Avenue/Beach 38th Street. Therefore, the frequency of buses that actually go to Coney Island is low enough to discourage riders from using the service. The rest of the passengers would most likely switch to non-MTA modes of travel, reducing the

savings. If the MTA does not wish to maintain service along Harway/Stillwell Avenues, it can run with the B82 along Cropsey Avenue. This would give Cropsey Avenue riders the choice of either the B64 or B82 at the same bus stop and would prevent the B82 from being overwhelmed with former B64 riders from Surf Avenue to 25th Avenue.

 

Combine B39 service with B24 service:

The B39 serves Williamsburg and the Lower East Side. Although the Marcy Avenue station is ADA accessable, the Essex Street/Delancy Street is not. If you combine the B39 with the B24 bus (which runs less frequently than the B39), ridership will increase as you will be giving residents of an area currently not served by the subway (sections of East Williamsburg, Sunnyside, and Greenpoint) direct access to Manhattan, which should increase ridership on the portion of the route currently served by the B24, while maintaining service on the portion of the route currently served by the B39 for the elderly disabled, who may otherwise take Access-A-Ride, which is much more costly to run than a local bus. This B24/B39 combination route should run every day, during the hours that the current B24

runs.

 

Maintain weekend B24 service:

The B24 runs through certain areas that are not served by any other bus routes. There is no alternate service for Greenpoint Avenue customers, and no alternate service from Brooklyn into Queens for customers riding over the Kosciusko Bridge. An alternative to discontinuing weekend B24 service is to combine at least one section with the Q104, whose operating expenses are covered the the City of New York. If the MTA determines that it is the loop-like route of the B24 that is responsible for the high operating cost, it could extend the Q104 over the southern portion of the B24 (which would incorporate the current B39 into the route), leaving the northern portion along Greenpoint Avenue as a shuttle. This service pattern could run weekdays in addition to weekends, as it may be more

cost-efficient than the current pattern.

 

Maintain overnight B31 service:

The B31 has 36 passengers between the hours of 1 AM and 5 AM. This falls short of the 45 passenger guideline required to keep overnight service, partially due to its short length. It is the only overnight service in Gerittsen Beach. It should be investigated further if there are riders in Gerittsen Beach, as it is a mile walk to the B3.

 

Maintain either overnight B65 service or overnight B45 service:

Maintaining service on one of these routes is necessary as the B65 is only 4 riders short of the 45 rider guideline required to maintain overnight service. The elimination of the B45 would bring the B65 over the threshold. If the B65 is not kept, then the B45 should be kept overnights, as there is no alternative east-west bus service near St Johns Place (the B65 is near the B25 on Fulton Street). In either case, the remaining route would be over the 45 rider guideline required to maintain overnight service.

 

Queens Bus Service:

 

Extend select Q46 trips to cover part of the discontinued Q79:

The Q79 serves Little Neck Parkway, a street where the nearest parallel bus line is on Springfield Boulevard. Instead of making passengers spend an extra 30 minutes traveling to Springfield Boulevard and back to complete the trip, the MTA could extend every 3rd Glen Oaks Q46 up to the Little Neck LIRR station. This would allow riders on the northern portion of the Q79 to maintain their service. Ridership would probably even increase slightly on this portion of the route, as the Q46 offers connections to more bus lines along Union Turnpike (such as the Q27/Q88 on Springfield Boulevard, the Q17 on 188th Street, the Q65 on 164th Street, the Q25/Q34 on Parsons Boulevard, the Q20A/Q20B/Q44 on Main Street, and the E, and F subway lines, as well as the Q10 and Q37 buses at Queens Boulevard).

The increased ridership as a result of the increased number of connections made available to riders along the portion of Little Neck Parkway where bus service is maintained should offset part of the costs of the extension.

 

Maintain weekend Q76 service:

The Q76 serves almost 2,000 passengers on Saturdays, when it operates. Those passengers would have an increased travel time of up to 30 minutes if this route were to be discontinued, enough to make a serious dent in the projected cost savings. This route costs only $2.70 per passenger to operate, and a result of having connections to subway lines only at Jamaica, most likely has a higher average fare paid than the systemwide average of $1.29.

If the MTA wishes, they can combine the Q76 with the Q77 to create a through-Francis Lewis Boulevard route. This would be dependant on the MTA allowing unlimited transfers, but if this were to be implemented, this could result in a cost savings as a result of running 1 service on Hillside Avenue (the Q43), as opposed to 3 (the Q43, Q76, and Q77).

 

Bronx Bus Service:

 

Maintain Bx41 service along White Plains Road instead of Bx39 service:

The advantage of maintaining Bx41 service would be the fact that the Bx41 offers more popular destinations, including Fordham Plaza and ''The Hub''. If the MTA wishes, they could terminate select Bx41 trips at Gun Hill Road/White Plains Road, while the rest continue to 241st Street.

 

Add some short-turn Bx15 trips from 149th Street-3rd Avenue:

The advantage of adding these trips (which could run using regular 40-foot buses) would be that riders coming from ''The Hub'' with shopping bags have a chance at getting a seat, as 149th Street would be the first stop. This also reduces the chance of the buses being caught in traffic on 125th Street in Manhattan. The riders who currently take the Bx55 may not take the Bx15 if they need space for their shopping bags, which they may not have as a result of the Bx15 already having passengers from Manhattan. As a result, these riders may switch to other non-MTA forms of transportation.

 

Maintain overnight Bx34 service, or add overnight service to the Bx16:

Overnights, th Bx34 carries only 31 passengers between the hours of 1 AM and 5 AM. However, this is partially due to the fact that it runs a short route. If the Bx34 were to be cut, riders in Woodlawn would have no transit service at all between 1 AM and 5 AM, as a result of being isolated by parks/cemetaries from the rest of the Bronx. Therefore, some form of transportation should run to Woodlawn during the overnight hours.

 

Extend the Bx16 on weekends to Fordham Road/Valentine Avenue:

The Bx34 runs down to Fordham Road, offering connections to the Bx26 route at Bedford Park Boulevard, as well as the Bx9, Bx12, Bx22, and the Bee-Line 60 and 61 routes. If the Bx34 were to be discontinued on weekends, the Bx16 should be extended to Fordham Road on weekends to maintain these connections. Also, unless the MTA plans on implementing unlimited transfers, or 3-legged transfers for riders affected by discontinued routes, Bx34 weekend service should remain, as riders would have to take the Bx31 to the Bx16 to the 4 train, requiring an extra fare unless they make a 1/4 mile to a 1/2 mile walk to the Bx16 on East 233rd Street or Webster Avenue.

 

Staten Island Bus Service:

 

Extend the S57 on weekends to Ebbitts Street/Cedar Grove Avenue to compensate for the loss of the S76:

Riders along that portion of Ebbitts Street are the furthest, out of all of the S76 riders from any alternative bus route. Extending the S57 to Ebbitts Street/Cedar Grove Avenue allows those riders to still have an option of getting to the ferry (or any other location along the S76 route for that matter) by taking the S57 to Hylan Boulevard for the S78, to South Railroad Avenue for the Staten Island Railway, or to Richmond Road for the S74. While there would still be riders affected, this proposal would help alleviate the trip for riders in New Dorp Beach.

 

Run the ''new'' S66 on weekends:

Running the rerouted S66 on weekends would help fill in a gap in north-south service that would be caused by the elimination of the S54 bus on weekends. Ths S66 would be positioned slightly more than halfway in between the service gap between the S53 on Clove Road and the S57 on Willowbrook Road. The S66 would be able to take some of the former S54 weekend customers, and would offer riders direct access to the Staten Island Ferry. It would also help fill in the service gap on Grymes Hill caused by the elimination of the S60 bus. This new route could run hourly between approximately 7 AM and 9 PM. Cost efficiency would improve over the current S54 and S60 services as a result of the service offered to the Staten Island ferry and the less frequent headways requiring fewer drivers.

Efficiency should improve from $7.57 (S54) and $13.52 (S60) per passenger to about $5 - $6 for the whole route. Although this is still the highest cost in the system, LI Bus runs inefficient routes (like the N73/N74 and N80) for the same purpose of network coverage.

 

Reroute the S61/S91 to Manor Road instead of Bradley Avenue:

By doing so, this would enable some weekend S54 customers to have their service maintained. Service would be improved for some customers along the route (particularly in the Todt Hill Houses) as a result of having more frequent service and direct access to the Staten Island Ferry. The cost shouldn't increase, as taking Harold Street to Manor Road to Victory Boulevard is the same distance as taking Harold Street to Bradley Avenue to Victory Boulevard. The S57 will serve customers on Bradley Avenue.

 

Add short-turn weekday S57 trips to/from Victory Boulevard/Watchogue Road, Susan Wagner High School, or Seaview Hospital:

This would help alleviate crowding on the portion of the route that would no longer be served by the S67. This would also help alleviate crowding on the Bradley Avenue portion of the route if the S61/S91 were to be shifted to Manor Road.

 

Subway Service:

 

As opposed to running all Q trains to Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard, stopping at 49 Street, use the tracks north of the 57 Street station to turn excess trains around and allow all Q trains to bypass the 49 Street station:

You will alleviate confusion as to which train is leaving frst from 57th Street, as all Q trains will be entering on the correct track at 57th Street. Currently, trains coming from the south enter on either track, leading to confusion as to which train (the one on the northbound or southbound track) will be leaving first. All Q train service (including trains coming from Astoria) would be on the same track.

 

LIRR service:

 

Run substitution bus service from Jamaica to Flatbush Avenue during the overnight hours:

The alternative of going into Penn Station and transferring to the subway is longer and more costly for overnight commuters.

 

I also wrote a letter suggesting some ways to cut costs by making some routes limited-stop routes. I posted it in the thread about which limited-stop routes are useless. Again, some ideas from these boards are mentioned in the letter.

[checkmatechamp13]

I have a question: Other than the service cuts published in the booklet, will there be any changes to the frequency of changes of certain routes? I know some subway routes will run less frequently during off-peak times, and that is only mentioned for informational purposes, since that doesn't require a public hearing. But is it the same situation with the buses, even though they didn't list the affected routes?

[checkmatechamp13]

No, that's not a good recommendation.

Just take the cheese bus, or deal with the subway. Everyone else does it.

 

There is no yellow bus service to the Bronx High School of Science. The only service is a private bus company, which charges fares.

[NX Express]

I have a question: Other than the service cuts published in the booklet, will there be any changes to the frequency of changes of certain routes? I know some subway routes will run less frequently during off-peak times, and that is only mentioned for informational purposes, since that doesn't require a public hearing. But is it the same situation with the buses, even though they didn't list the affected routes?

 

They're probably cutting hours and/or frequency of almost all bus routes.

[BrooklynBus]

CheckmateChamp13

 

You are obviously too intellegent to be working at Operations Planning.

 

Routine service changes occur four times a year. Since the Planning Guidelines were changed last year to allow for additional crowding, there will be more cuts than service additions.

 

While it would take me too much time to look at all your ideas, let me just say this. Regarding the B31, it is my understanding that Gerritsen Beach gets zero ridership between midnight and 5 AM with everyone boarding or alighting before Gerritsen Beach, mostly along Avenue R.

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who analyzed the MTA's B 4 numbers and came to the same conclusion you did that it would have been more cost efficient to retain weekend rather than weekday ridership.

 

Agree with your B64 analysis. The sad part is that this cut will destroy ridership along Bath Avenue. Most everyone will now walk to 86th Street instead. Their next move will be to terminate the B64 at the VA Hospital coming from Bay Ridge due to lack of demand along Bath Avenue.

 

I'm surprised one is complaining about not getting three-legged transfers.

 

I'm starting to wonder if they took NX Express's suggestion that I suggested to them that the B4 terminate at Sheepshead Bay Station instead of Coney Island Avenue because Page 56 of their Revised Booklet shows no westbound B4 service along Avenue Z between Ocean Parkway and Coney Island Avenue, but puts it all times on the Shore Parkway North Service Road instead. But DOT already installed B4 signs along that portion of Avenue Z in both directions.

 

If it it still will terminate at Coney Island Avenue, people along this portion of Avenue Z will be very confused, not knowing when the bus stops there.

[JohnQPine]

They're probably cutting hours and/or frequency of almost all bus routes.

 

All routes? So come July I'll be standing on the roof of the N27?

[Shortline Bus]

cool checkmated.

 

Of all of your proposals listed above the only major disagreement i have with you is the B31. On most trips it gets zero riders overnights. That one of the few cuts i agree with the with.

 

I would also add maintaining Saturday X27/28 service as well.

[checkmatechamp13]

cool checkmated.

 

Of all of your proposals listed above the only major disagreement i have with you is the B31. On most trips it gets zero riders overnights. That one of the few cuts i agree with the with.

 

I would also add maintaining Saturday X27/28 service as well.

 

I would really say only the X27. It carries more weekend riders (1,080 as opposed to 760 for the X28) and has seen less ridership loss than the X28 (-4.2% vs -4.8% for the 1-year trend, and -16.5% vs -28.3% for the 5-year trend).

How would this idea work?: If the X27 were to be combined with the X28 on weekends. The new route could run down Bay Ridge Avenue and Shore Road, and then use 86th Street to get across to the X28 route. I put in the numbers into Google Transit and I figured that it would increase the trip time for passengers along the X28 section of the route only by about 10 minutes.

 

I have an idea: Should certain express routes be allowed to pick up outbound and drop off inbound in the outer boroughs? The advantage of this would be that, since certain express routes serve areas that required 2 or 3 local routes to reach, there could be a certain number of passengers that are willing to pay the extra fare to avoid the transfers and the longer wait for the local bus.

For example, I live near the last stop on the X17 before it gets onto the Staten Island Expressway. If, for example, I wanted to reach a place along Arden Avenue, for example, I would have to take the S59 to the Eltingville Transit Center for the S56, which runs every half hour (And on weekday evenings and Saturdays, I wouldn't be able to get there by public transportation, as the S56 doesn't run). Yet, even if I were willing to pay the extra $3.25 for the express bus over the local bus, I wouldn't be able to get on.

Another example would be that if somebody lived near Victory Boulevard at the West Shore Expressway and wanted to reach the Arthur Kill Road/Hugenot Avenue, they would have to take the S62 to Richmond Avenue, take the S59 to Arthur Kill Road, and then take the S74/S84 to Hugenot Avenue, which would take close to an hour. If they were able to take the X19 or AE7 (I don't think the X22/X23/X24 stop at Victory Boulevard). the trip could be reduced to about 10-15 minutes when the express buses run during peak hours.

 

Even on the "new" Saturday X27/X28, it would allow customers in Bay Ridge to have direct access to Coney Island, since the MTA plans to have the B1 cover the B64 west of 13th Avenue, and the B64 is being cut back to 25th Avenue.

 

What does everybody think? It could be a source of revenue for the MTA, as some people would be taking the $5.50 express bus instead of the $2.25 local bus to save time, and some new riders who would've driven or used another non-MTA mode of transportation would be using the express bus. It could be used on routes that don't have parallel local service (for example, not on routes like the X68 (completely parallels the Q43), QM4 (parallels the Q64), or X1/X2/X3/X9 (parallel the S79)). The only disadvantage I could think of would be an increase in dwell time at the stops where people both alight/disembark, but I think this idea merits consideration.

 

Comments?

[B35 via Church]

I have an idea:

 

Should certain express routes be allowed to pick up outbound and drop off inbound in the outer boroughs? The advantage of this would be that, since certain express routes serve areas that required 2 or 3 local routes to reach, there could be a certain number of passengers that are willing to pay the extra fare to avoid the transfers and the longer wait for the local bus.

 

For example, I live near the last stop on the X17 before it gets onto the Staten Island Expressway. If, for example, I wanted to reach a place along Arden Avenue, for example, I would have to take the S59 to the Eltingville Transit Center for the S56, which runs every half hour (And on weekday evenings and Saturdays, I wouldn't be able to get there by public transportation, as the S56 doesn't run). Yet, even if I were willing to pay the extra $3.25 for the express bus over the local bus, I wouldn't be able to get on.

 

Another example would be that if somebody lived near Victory Boulevard at the West Shore Expressway and wanted to reach the Arthur Kill Road/Hugenot Avenue, they would have to take the S62 to Richmond Avenue, take the S59 to Arthur Kill Road, and then take the S74/S84 to Hugenot Avenue, which would take close to an hour. If they were able to take the X19 or AE7 (I don't think the X22/X23/X24 stop at Victory Boulevard). the trip could be reduced to about 10-15 minutes when the express buses run during peak hours.

 

Even on the "new" Saturday X27/X28, it would allow customers in Bay Ridge to have direct access to Coney Island, since the MTA plans to have the B1 cover the B64 west of 13th Avenue, and the B64 is being cut back to 25th Avenue.

 

What does everybody think? It could be a source of revenue for the MTA, as some people would be taking the $5.50 express bus instead of the $2.25 local bus to save time, and some new riders who would've driven or used another non-MTA mode of transportation would be using the express bus. It could be used on routes that don't have parallel local service (for example, not on routes like the X68 (completely parallels the Q43), QM4 (parallels the Q64), or X1/X2/X3/X9 (parallel the S79)). The only disadvantage I could think of would be an increase in dwell time at the stops where people both alight/disembark, but I think this idea merits consideration.

 

Comments?

 

yeh, the x22-24 doesn't make that "request only" stop @ Victory....

 

 

 

anyway, If I'm understanding you correctly, in other words, should certain express buses run open door in its respective outerborough of service.....

 

I could only see that maybe working for the better:

 

1) in Staten Island... where there are a lot of express routes, tied into the fact that there are a fair number of local routes that run at poor headways.... and

2) maybe that x27/28 combo,as you state, for service b/w bay ridge & CI/Bath Beach/Bensonhurst....

 

Here in Brooklyn, the BM2 & the x29 completely parallels some local route in some fashion, so that's out...

 

- The BM1 does run standalone on Av K, but south and east of av K.... Mill Basin, Bergen Beach, and Georgetown riders aren't looking to get to Flatbush av or Ocean Av....

- The BM3 runs standalone along av X & along Batchelder (and pretty soon, along most of Emmons, w/ the B4 getting truncated)... for your idea to work for the BM3, that would have to serve the Sheepshead bay station, for possible potential riders looking to get to those particular areas w/i the neighborhood of Sheepshead bay itself....

- Despite of what I think about the BM4, I don't see ppl. that'd be willing to wait for an express bus @ cortelyou rd station, for the BM4 to get to gerritsen....

- The BM5... I'm not convinced that there are riders along Woodhaven *slash* Cross bay blvd, that are seeking service to ENY/Starrett (or vice versa)....

 

 

now that I think of it, over in Queens, maybe it could work out up there w/ the areas that the QM2 serves (but in order to attract riders seeking flushing, it would have to turn down main st, and then turn on northern, where it would continue towards manhattan).... If I lived in bay terrace/beechhurst/clearview, I would easily consider taking the QM2 to flushing, before having to rely on a Q14, 15, 16....

 

If I'm missing something regarding your idea, plz. tell me....

 

 

I will say that the idea sounds like a noble one, I'll give you that much....

(btw, while commenting on this, I've completely ignored the notion that you won't get most people to consider paying 5.50 over 2.25)

[Grand Concourse]

Well if service is so terrible on the local routes, perhaps at some point it becomes 'what's a few $ more if I can get to point b sooner'. I could see it as possible a person wouldn't mind to pay more over waiting longer for a local bus.

If it gets more people to ride the express bus then all the better.

[Shortline Bus]

Actually i wrote that suggestion about 10 years to letter to (NYCT) and that rejected it stating express buses is for 'interborough service' only.

 

Still now that times have changes, maybe it should be looked at again.

Even if this 'open door intraborough' is ever created, IMO it should be only 'off peak' meaning weekdays only after 8pm and any times weekends/major holidays if that route is running.

 

What you guys think?:confused:

 

 

 

yeh, the x22-24 doesn't make that "request only" stop @ Victory....

 

 

 

anyway, If I'm understanding you correctly, in other words, should certain express buses run open door in its respective outerborough of service.....

 

I could only see that maybe working for the better:

 

1) in Staten Island... where there are a lot of express routes, tied into the fact that there are a fair number of local routes that run at poor headways.... and

2) maybe that x27/28 combo,as you state, for service b/w bay ridge & CI/Bath Beach/Bensonhurst....

 

Here in Brooklyn, the BM2 & the x29 completely parallels some local route in some fashion, so that's out...

 

- The BM1 does run standalone on Av K, but south and east of av K.... Mill Basin, Bergen Beach, and Georgetown riders aren't looking to get to Flatbush av or Ocean Av....

- The BM3 runs standalone along av X & along Batchelder (and pretty soon, along most of Emmons, w/ the B4 getting truncated)... for your idea to work for the BM3, that would have to serve the Sheepshead bay station, for possible potential riders looking to get to those particular areas w/i the neighborhood of Sheepshead bay itself....

- Despite of what I think about the BM4, I don't see ppl. that'd be willing to wait for an express bus @ cortelyou rd station, for the BM4 to get to gerritsen....

- The BM5... I'm not convinced that there are riders along Woodhaven *slash* Cross bay blvd, that are seeking service to ENY/Starrett (or vice versa)....

 

 

now that I think of it, over in Queens, maybe it could work out up there w/ the areas that the QM2 serves (but in order to attract riders seeking flushing, it would have to turn down main st, and then turn on northern, where it would continue towards manhattan).... If I lived in bay terrace/beechhurst/clearview, I would easily consider taking the QM2 to flushing, before having to rely on a Q14, 15, 16....

 

If I'm missing something regarding your idea, plz. tell me....

 

 

I will say that the idea sounds like a noble one, I'll give you that much....

(btw, while commenting on this, I've completely ignored the notion that you won't get most people to consider paying 5.50 over 2.25)

[checkmatechamp13]

@B35 via Church: No, you understand everything about my idea. I agree with you about not having this on all express routes, just ones without the parallel local service.

The idea was that, since express bus service operates most frequently during rush hour, where people need to get to work, there might be some people willing to pay the extra $3.25 to get where they need to go. For example, there are some hotels in Travis, and some of the people who work at the hoteld and live on the South Shore might be willing to take the express bus rather than take 3 local buses in almost a full circle.

There are instances, expecially with the reductions in local service, where people would be willing to pay slightly more just to maintain their one-seat ride. Senior citizens come to mind as those kinds of people, since my grandmother often ends up needing a lift because she needs to take 2 or 3 buses to get where she needs to go.

Routes that this could work on might be:

The BxM4B: The Bx34 is being eliminated on weekends (though the BxM4B runs hourly)

The QM2: As you said (since the Q15 is being split to serve the Q14 route) and QM2A: It is kind of far to the Q16 from Willets Point Boulevard

The X10 (I've seen some riders get on on South Gannon Avenue and disembark along Narrows Road South, since the S62 is kind of far on Victory Boulevard and requires a transfer to the S53)

The X12/X42: Since the S67 is going to be eliminated and the S57 runs infrequently

The X17: Going from Richmond Avenue to Arden Heights requires a transfer to the S56, which runs infrequently and doesn't run evenings/weekends

The X19: The only direct route from Travis to the South Shore

The X27/X28 if they were to be combined on Saturdays: There would be no direct route from Bay Ridge into Coney Island anymore.

 

I can't really see it working on the BM3, as that route is too circuituous within Sheepshead Bay and only runs every hour. Even if it served the subway station, I still couldn't see too many people riding it, since the B49 and B36 run are only a few blocks away from the points on Avenue X, and the people along Emmons Avenue would probably rather pay for a cab than wait for a bus, which wouldn't save that much more money.

[checkmatechamp13]

Actually i wrote that suggestion about 10 years to letter to (NYCT) and that rejected it stating express buses is for 'interborough service' only.

 

Still now that times have changes, maybe it should be looked at again.

Even if this 'open door intraborough' is ever created, IMO it should be only 'off peak' meaning weekdays only after 8pm and any times weekends/major holidays if that route is running.

 

What you guys think?:confused:

 

The advantage of only doing it off-peak is that you don't have so many people lining up at the door while one person gets off of the bus (going to Manhattan), and the reverse is true going outbound, where the person would have to wait until all of the people got off before they could board. Also, the local buses themselves run less frequently, so they could fill in gaps in the network.

As I said, only lines that serve fairly isolated areas should have this service. Whether it should be applied in the peak, I don't know. (As I stated, sometimes the express route is the only direct route between 2 points even during rush hours).

Pretty much, every route should be examined on a case-by-case basis to see if it could work on the route and at what times.