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$239,000 Conductor Among M.T.A.’s 8,000 Six-Figure Workers


Harry

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I never said he did not earn his pay. I just said nothing he does warrants $240,000. My fahter knows that he had an easy job. Heck, he usually fell asleep in between stations. And a conductor is not hard work. I know because he would let me open and close the doors sometimes. If a 9 year old can do it, then how hard can it be? I have an uncle who is a doctor and a mother whose a registered nurse. Combined, their pay does not come close to equaling $240k. Do you realize how much yeears of schooling people like doctors and lawyers require? Usually, 7 + years. The average conductor just has a HS diploma.

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I never said he did not earn his pay. I just said nothing he does warrants $240,000. My fahter knows that he had an easy job. Heck, he usually fell asleep in between stations. And a conductor is not hard work. I know because he would let me open and close the doors sometimes. If a 9 year old can do it, then how hard can it be? I have an uncle who is a doctor and a mother whose a registered nurse. Combined, their pay does not come close to equaling $240k. Do you realize how much yeears of schooling people like doctors and lawyers require? Usually, 7 + years. The average conductor just has a HS diploma.

 

Fvck lawyers. They contribute nothing of value to society. What in the good god damn does a lawyer do to help anyone? All they do is waste taxpayer money on frivolous suits and pointless consultations, and when a case is valid they ask for more than is reasonable just so they can line their pockets. I can agree with the argument that teachers, firefighters, cops, and doctors should be paid well, but lawyers? You've got to be kidding me and you undermined your credibility bigtime by including them in that group. Suits as a whole are absolutely USELESS and a drain on society and they deserve to make A LOT LESS.

 

Level of schooling required should not be commensurate with pay. It is, but it shouldn't be. It should be about value created. Lawyers create no value in the economy. I have more respect for janitors, at least they make shit clean instead of adding to the mess.

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And what about doctors and school teachers? Shouldn't they make more than a conductor? And if you don't pay peopele based on their education level, nobody will take jobs that require a graduate degree. There will be no doctors. No teachers. No scientists. No engineers. No pharmicists. Is that what you want?

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Who said that all lawyers sue? No offense, but your knowledge of the legal profession is limited. First, less than 5% of cases ever make it to trial so the vast majority of lawyers will never see a courtroom. Secondly, what about the prosecutirs who keep criminals off the street? They are just as much of a lawyer as an ambulance chaser. What about the TWU lawyers? Are they worth nothing? Everybody hates lawyers UNTIL THEY NEED ONE.

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And what about doctors and school teachers? Shouldn't they make more than a conductor? And if you don't pay peopele based on their education level, nobody will take jobs that require a graduate degree. There will be no doctors. No teachers. No scientists. No engineers. No pharmicists. Is that what you want?

 

Hey Conductors don't make the rules they just follow them.The six figures you see are not straight time but are lots and lots of OT.Lots of sacrifice from home,long hours dealing with the public and making sure your doctors and lawyers and teachers are able to make it home safe.If you want to be mad then be mad at the graduate degree managers who agreed with the UTU in a written contract.Hey there are plenty and I mean plenty of people who are not working in their field that have a degree in. I know some union steamfitters and operating engineers who don't have a degree or college education at that and make $93 per hour and again someone with this so called degree agreed to this salary.You can't kill people for following the rules and making more if its legal.

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Who is this guy to decide who makes how much money. Something that a lot of people forget is that wages are agreed upon by BOTH the company AND the union. Apparently there are a LOT of people who think train service employees should make a lot of money. Enough is enough with defending white collar "workers" (I use that term loosely).

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Who is this guy to decide who makes how much money. Something that a lot of people forget is that wages are agreed upon by BOTH the company AND the union. Apparently there are a LOT of people who think train service employees should make a lot of money. Enough is enough with defending white collar "workers" (I use that term loosely).

 

Only reason I could see why anyone would have an issue with this conductor is jealousy. They simply don't like seeing somebody else making more than they do who may have less education. So they think that anyone w/o a Master's degree shouldn't be entitled to a DECENT wage. The maximum C/R salary in NYCT is not high by any means. Yet we still have people who think that it should be lowered despite higher costs of living. "You get what you pay for." and if we ever did follow the advice of those saying that high school kids should be hired to do it for minimum wage .. that's the kind of quality that you're going to see on the road.

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Did the conductor really "earn" his salary? Did he rush into a burning building to save someone? Did he help a failing student excel in school? Did he remove a tumor from a cancer patient? No, all he did was open and close doors. Is it really fair for the conductor to make MORE than most lawyers and doctors? And I am not anti-civil servant, as my father is a retired NYCTA conductor. I've went to work plenty of times with my father back when I was in grade school, and nothing he did warrants a 6 digit salary. Don't mean to be harsh, but that is my opinion.

 

Unless you know this conductor personally, or you know someone who knows this conductor well, you really don't have any right to comment on what this conductor did or did not do to earn his salary. For all any of his know, he may have helped save the life of a passenger 15 years ago, or he might be one of the most reliable conductors at the LIRR in terms of showing up for work every day, valuing the safety of and courtesy towards the fare-paying passengers as the most important part of his job, and having a personnel file filled with sterling evaluations and more commendations than supervisory write-ups. You also severely sell the man short and make him out to be little more than a piss-poor building doorman with your derogatory comment about opening and closing doors.

 

I'm not limiting this statement to just you, but while people are most certainly entitled to their own opinions, they are NOT entitled to phrase their opinions as if they are facts. Look at how your posts present themselves, and realize that a visitor to this site may read them as if they are the absolute truth. The mere addition of "I don't believe. . . . ," or "I don't feel. . . . ," as in "I don't feel that anything he did warrants a six-digit salary," makes an enormous difference. I rarely see that around here lately, and I find it to be misleading and a genuine patronization to pull that "word is bond" card when the bond is counterfeit.

 

Moreover, I'm sure you appreciated your father's salary anytime you got a piece of it.

 

I never said he did not earn his pay. I just said nothing he does warrants $240,000. My fahter knows that he had an easy job. Heck, he usually fell asleep in between stations. And a conductor is not hard work. I know because he would let me open and close the doors sometimes. If a 9 year old can do it, then how hard can it be? I have an uncle who is a doctor and a mother whose a registered nurse. Combined, their pay does not come close to equaling $240k. Do you realize how much yeears of schooling people like doctors and lawyers require? Usually, 7 + years. The average conductor just has a HS diploma.

 

Again, your opinions are presented as facts. Diplomatically working for and with the public is one of the hardest tasks that anyone may ever have to endure and ultimately master, which I feel is the largest part of any civil servant job. And do you realize that all the degrees in the world mean absolutely nothing if the principles and skills that are taught in school and SHOULD be learned by prospective lawyers and doctors and teachers and nurses are not correctly applied and used while working in that professional title? That piece of paper has not become little more than a tuition bill printed in Olde English font neatly housed within a beautiful frame and under a piece of clear glass for all to view. Idiot savants are capable of memorizing the PDR, birth-delivery procedures and dramatic diagnostic tactics learned by watching House, M.D. Those real life Raymond Babbits would function as better doctors and a lot of those actively practicing medicine in our society.

 

Fvck lawyers. They contribute nothing of value to society. What in the good god damn does a lawyer do to help anyone? All they do is waste taxpayer money on frivolous suits and pointless consultations, and when a case is valid they ask for more than is reasonable just so they can line their pockets. I can agree with the argument that teachers, firefighters, cops, and doctors should be paid well, but lawyers? You've got to be kidding me and you undermined your credibility bigtime by including them in that group. Suits as a whole are absolutely USELESS and a drain on society and they deserve to make A LOT LESS.

 

Level of schooling required should not be commensurate with pay. It is, but it shouldn't be. It should be about value created. Lawyers create no value in the economy. I have more respect for janitors, at least they make shit clean instead of adding to the mess.

 

God, you'd make a shitty attorney due to the fact that your post above accurately portrays our degenerate-defending urchins of society. The bottom of the food chain has never looked so dapper with all of the pin stripes, gold cuff links, Audi's and beach houses.

 

Most lawyers are the Rumpelstiltskins of the law, weaving bullshit and nonsense into pure gold. I've never met people who command egregious salaries by promoting lies and making the justice system appear to be a game of Simon Says by leading juries to acquit probable murders if gloves don't fit and I've never met such an unethical and immoral bunch of sleep well at night knowing that their bank account is safe because they effectively put the public in danger by keeping criminals and losers out of jail.

 

And what about doctors and school teachers? Shouldn't they make more than a conductor? And if you don't pay peopele based on their education level, nobody will take jobs that require a graduate degree. There will be no doctors. No teachers. No scientists. No engineers. No pharmicists. Is that what you want?

 

Yes, I personally do.

 

Who said that all lawyers sue? No offense, but your knowledge of the legal profession is limited. First, less than 5% of cases ever make it to trial so the vast majority of lawyers will never see a courtroom. Secondly, what about the prosecutirs who keep criminals off the street? They are just as much of a lawyer as an ambulance chaser. What about the TWU lawyers? Are they worth nothing? Everybody hates lawyers UNTIL THEY NEED ONE.

 

Law and Order has been announced as a cancelled series. Please live with it.

 

Only reason I could see why anyone would have an issue with this conductor is jealousy. They simply don't like seeing somebody else making more than they do who may have less education. So they think that anyone w/o a Master's degree shouldn't be entitled to a DECENT wage. The maximum C/R salary in NYCT is not high by any means. Yet we still have people who think that it should be lowered despite higher costs of living. "You get what you pay for." and if we ever did follow the advice of those saying that high school kids should be hired to do it for minimum wage .. that's the kind of quality that you're going to see on the road.

 

I was told long ago that interpersonal issues and resentments almost always relate to jealousy.

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I love how words are being put in my mouth. I've never said Doctors deserve to be paid less. Doctors deserve to be paid MORE! The drug companies and insurance company executives who rake in huge salaries are the drain on the medical system. The useless millions of human resources employees are the drain on the economy. The frivolous lawsuits and the lawyers that take them on for a $0 retainer and 50% of the winnings if they can convince a judge to rule in favor of a million dollar judgment are the drain on the legal system.

 

Somehow in our country, businessmen and lawyers have been glorified but for TOO LONG. They do not contribute anything to the economy. Essentially all businessmen do is meet to make decisions as a group (usually the wrong ones). All lawyers do is offer advice and try to convince judges that someone deserves money or to go/not go to jail.

 

WHY are those the highest paying types of jobs in our country? What about people who make things (the few that are left)? What about farmers who grow the food that sustains this country...do you feel that they should be underpaid so the fat cats can make their Lexus payments and the whole country can starve while they just hop in their private planes and fly to Europe where they eat until the mess is resolved back here?

 

I am SICK of people defending the fat cats. Just because you WANT TO BE ONE doesn't MAKE YOU ONE. You are NOT one, and the longer you sit here defending them the bigger it will be and the faster it will come at you when they decide to bend you over and rape you for what little money you have.

 

The American dream used to be rags to riches, and that dream is less possible than ever nowadays. But people are pathetic creatures by nature who need this thing called "hope" and if they don't have it, they flip, so they continue to believe in an American dream that hasn't been possible for most of the last 30-40 years. And they'll defend the rights of the very people screwing them out of the possibility of an American dream just because it allows them to keep their sanity at night that, someday, maybe, they just might be able to be one of those very same people.

 

Makes. No. Sense.

 

But "it is what it is" and I'm just calling a spade a spade. Open your eyes and see things for what they really are.

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I never defended "fat cats." I never defended business executives or the like. Just lawyers. And I have met plenty of lawyers. I have a BS in legal studies so virtually all of my professors were attorneys. Before I started the program, I was expecting them to be arrorgant jerks on the basis that they were lawyers. But that was hardly the case. They were not super rich. Most of them had never gotten anywhere near a 7 digit award for a client. I had one who was a judge and another who was ex CIA. The vast majority of lawyers are just ordinary people.

 

Now yes, I agree with your hatered of business executives. I think we have too many of them. But that does not mean we should pay conductors $240k a year. If we paid them all that much, would you be willing to pay $25 for a one way subway ride?

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I never defended "fat cats." I never defended business executives or the like. Just lawyers. And I have met plenty of lawyers. I have a BS in legal studies so virtually all of my professors were attorneys. Before I started the program, I was expecting them to be arrorgant jerks on the basis that they were lawyers. But that was hardly the case. They were not super rich. Most of them had never gotten anywhere near a 7 digit award for a client. I had one who was a judge and another who was ex CIA. The vast majority of lawyers are just ordinary people.

 

Now yes, I agree with your hatered of business executives. I think we have too many of them. But that does not mean we should pay conductors $240k a year. If we paid them all that much, would you be willing to pay $25 for a one way subway ride?

 

Those conductors and engineers making that money did so because they cashed in earned vacation and sick time, and worked a lot of overtime. The vast majority of conductors and engineers don't even sniff those kinds of salaries. You are bashing this guy for going above and beyond what he's expected to work to get more money, but he had to do something to do it.

 

A standard salary for most lawyers is around $200K / year, at least in NYC. That's standard. That's not doing anything extra. That's just doing the bare minimum. And most lawyers are dicks. Your professors may be lawyers on the side, but they are also getting paid by the school you are at to teach. They are earning two paychecks. Anyone who is a judge or ex CIA is not going to get paid much compared to lawyers at private "firms", which are where all the lavish paychecks are. That is also where 90% of the lawyer jobs are (and where the d-bags go). Those lawyers DON'T teach legal studies programs because the programs don't pay them enough to make them care. Using a sampling of lawyers who work second jobs to supplement their incomes to justify the incomes of all lawyers is a straw man argument and doesn't work.

 

Also your teachers are doing the same thing the conductor is...doing the most possible to increase their income. So why the double standard?

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Did the conductor really "earn" his salary? Did he rush into a burning building to save someone? Did he help a failing student excel in school? Did he remove a tumor from a cancer patient? No, all he did was open and close doors. Is it really fair for the conductor to make MORE than most lawyers and doctors? And I am not anti-civil servant, as my father is a retired NYCTA conductor. I've went to work plenty of times with my father back when I was in grade school, and nothing he did warrants a 6 digit salary. Don't mean to be harsh, but that is my opinion.

 

YES the conductor did. He may not have helped a failing student (although you dont know if he has kids or any relatives in school) nor did he cure cancer, turn water into wine or stop a bullet with his chin hair, but that doesn't mean he didn't work hard for god knows how long to get the paycheck he has.

 

And by your logic, you didn't deserve a lot of the stuff you got since your dad did an apparently half-assed job. In fact, do you think he deserves his retirement if all he did was open and close doors?

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My father never saw a 6 digit paycheck in his life nor will he. I think he deserved his paycheck. But when your talking a quarter million dollars, there is a different standard. And the MTA railroads are a bunch of corrupt people who only hire their cronies. In 06, I took an exam for 3rd railman with MNR. I got a call from HR saying I was the next on the list to be called in 07. That was the last I ever heard from them.

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The LIRR conductor did not earn his $240k. It's hard to justify a conductor earning that much when a Siemen's computer can do his job. Heck, an airline pilot does not earn anywhere near that. And flying a plane is certainly a lot harder than opening and closing doors. Someone who is worth $240k a year should have a job that is impossible to automate, like a doctor.

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The LIRR conductor did not earn his $240k. It's hard to justify a conductor earning that much when a Siemen's computer can do his job. Heck, an airline pilot does not earn anywhere near that. And flying a plane is certainly a lot harder than opening and closing doors. Someone who is worth $240k a year should have a job that is impossible to automate, like a doctor.

 

Do you know how many hours an airline pilot is allowed to work a week? Come on your talking apples and oranges .If an airline pilot worked a conductors "straight" time without OT it would be double $240 k.And personally I don't think you know all the responsibilities of an commuter rail conductor. All I see is opening and closing doors is not only their job.If you don't know Transit and RR have different responsibilities,different qualifications and different rules.

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The LIRR conductor did not earn his $240k. It's hard to justify a conductor earning that much when a Siemen's computer can do his job. Heck, an airline pilot does not earn anywhere near that. And flying a plane is certainly a lot harder than opening and closing doors. Someone who is worth $240k a year should have a job that is impossible to automate, like a doctor.

 

Even flying a plane has its share of automation, and pilots tend to not be paid very well either. But yet LAWYERS and BUSINESSMEN are. You continue to use doctors to defend your points, but everyone here has already said they agree with high doctor pay. They just DISAGREE with low conductor pay.

 

You seem to continue to argue that "if conductors all made this much" - THEY DON'T. One did, by working a TON of overtime and cashing in YEARS of unused sick and vacation time that HE ALREADY EARNED.

 

Continue bashing the working man at the defense of the fat cats, that's what they want. The poor all kill each other on the streets of the hood and trailer parks while the rich sit in their ivory towers and toast to their demise.

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"The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.. corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed." -Abraham Lincoln

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Not all lawyers are paid well. There are countless lawyers making less than LIRR conductors doing document review with no benefits. Only those who graduate from top tier law schools stand a chance of making big money. I'm not defending lawyers, but am just trying to point out some facts. If all lawyers really made $200k, do you think I would be posting here right now or would I be in law school?

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Not all lawyers are paid well. There are countless lawyers making less than LIRR conductors doing document review with no benefits. Only those who graduate from top tier law schools stand a chance of making big money. I'm not defending lawyers, but am just trying to point out some facts. If all lawyers really made $200k, do you think I would be posting here right now or would I be in law school?

 

Yes, because you appear to think that ALL conductors make over $200 G's.

 

How much do you feel that LIRR conductors, who, as you so misinformatively put it "open and close doors" should make?

 

How much do you feel that attorneys should make?

 

It's a good thing that O.J. Simpson didn't have to go to Sunnyside to assemble his defense team, or he'd never have been able to come close to affording the fee for his team of liars, er. . . . lawyers. ;)

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I don't know of a specific salary that condctors should make but LIRR, MNR, and NYCTA conductors should all make the same.

 

Which is what? And why should they all be the same when the duties of the job vary between those agencies? Contrary to popular belief, their jobs CANNOT be automated. There is no way currently to assure the safety and efficient flow of passengers on and off of LIRR trains and collect the fares w/o conductors. There is no way for them to operate w/o engineers. The same is true for NYCT as well as most other transit agencies including those which have full ATO which usually have at least one crew member on board. You would spend more on the computes, fare control, and everything else needed to replace them.

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Not all lawyers are paid well. There are countless lawyers making less than LIRR conductors doing document review with no benefits. Only those who graduate from top tier law schools stand a chance of making big money. I'm not defending lawyers, but am just trying to point out some facts. If all lawyers really made $200k, do you think I would be posting here right now or would I be in law school?

 

You are in law SCHOOL and are therefore not a lawyer yet. Come back in 10 years and if you're still crying poverty, maybe you'll have a point.

 

Student don't make shit for anything this is common fact.

 

I'm not being a dick, I'm just being real. "You're not there yet", so don't pretend you are. Get out in the working world and see both sides of the picture before you open your mouth about real world things. That's all I'm saying. I may say it bluntly but that's my big point.

 

Students should never comment on real world happenings until they've experienced them for themselves. The real world has a way of reshaping people's uninformed opinions faster than you can say "Whoops!"

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Which is what? And why should they all be the same when the duties of the job vary between those agencies? Contrary to popular belief, their jobs CANNOT be automated. There is no way currently to assure the safety and efficient flow of passengers on and off of LIRR trains and collect the fares w/o conductors. There is no way for them to operate w/o engineers. The same is true for NYCT as well as most other transit agencies including those which have full ATO which usually have at least one crew member on board. You would spend more on the computes, fare control, and everything else needed to replace them.

 

Never mind system maintenance costs which would include salaries of trained computer engineers and programmers, as well as replacement parts etc. and supervisors.

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Fvck lawyers. They contribute nothing of value to society. What in the good god damn does a lawyer do to help anyone? All they do is waste taxpayer money on frivolous suits and pointless consultations, and when a case is valid they ask for more than is reasonable just so they can line their pockets. I can agree with the argument that teachers, firefighters, cops, and doctors should be paid well, but lawyers? You've got to be kidding me and you undermined your credibility bigtime by including them in that group. Suits as a whole are absolutely USELESS and a drain on society and they deserve to make A LOT LESS.

 

Level of schooling required should not be commensurate with pay. It is, but it shouldn't be. It should be about value created. Lawyers create no value in the economy. I have more respect for janitors, at least they make shit clean instead of adding to the mess.

 

+10...my dad was a janitor for 37 yrs(32BJ)in a midtown office building. Oh the stories he told us about the tenants,some of whom were lawyers(liars for hire) who had offices in there.

 

During Christmas/New Years he would get enough wine/liquor to stock a wine cellar.:tup:

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You are in law SCHOOL and are therefore not a lawyer yet. Come back in 10 years and if you're still crying poverty, maybe you'll have a point.

 

Student don't make shit for anything this is common fact.

 

Ah another "know-it-all" Student huh?

 

They make me laugh....

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