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Nexis4Jersey

New York Regional Rail Expansion?

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New-York-Regional-Rail-Coda.jpg

Fulton-Street-Drawing.jpg

Downtown-Manhattan-Regional-Rail-Map.jpg

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/10/new-york-regional-rail-a-coda/

 

Do you think this could happen? I think by 2040 , we might have a few of these lines crossing through Manhattan. The population and system constraints on the NYC subway / LIRR system will be terrible. NJT will also need to upgrade to keep up with demand.

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Um is this a joke because if it is then it isn't funny at all

And this will be verry dificult to make.

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Nice idea. Who's going to pay for it?

 

Private - Public investment , its estimated to cost around 45-60 billion $$$ and will ease some moderate congestion. But the long term benefits out weigh any cost.

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Um is this a joke because if it is then it isn't funny at all

And this will be verry dificult to make.

 

Not really , we have machines / Tech that can make this very easy and do it very fast. B)

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He plans for the future , we may not need this now......but in 30 years we will. Other cities around the world are doing it. Tokyo , London , Paris , and Berlin are good examples of this. In 30 years i estimate that the NJT Rail network will be used by at least 3 million ppl daily. The MTA will expand there Rail network and will service at least 4 million daily , when you overlap the planned lines and population growth thats very easy to believe. Yes the Blue line to is a bit absurd , but the rest aren't and the NJ ones are planned. & The Cross-Rail idea is queit smart when you think about it.

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Absolute waste of money.

 

Agreed. Transferring trains at NY Penn never hurt anyone. There should be a shuttle between Grand Central and Pann though. I know theres a shuttle between Time Square and Grand Central, reroute that shuttle to Penn.

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You're overestimating. 3 million in one day on a system that today doesn't even carry 300,000 a day. That's today's daily ridership, times 10. A million in 30 years, maybe (and that's a big maybe). For every person on a train right now, you're adding 9 more.

 

I know that might sound crazy now , but the population of the Region has been rapidly growing over the past 20 years and with that Transit Ridership has been too. When NJT & The MTA get back on there feet and find some funding for some key projects i think we will see an increase again. Projects like the MOM network and West shore line i do see adding at least 40,000-100,000. Population booms along those corridors are starting to boom. Its all about future planning and thinking ahead 10-30 years.

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This is at best just proposals

That may or may not happen in the forseable future.

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let's just put this into mathematical perspective for a second. You're talking about the three railroads carrying eventualy what the subway carries right now. right now, together, they don't even carry a million day yet and they're already packed to the gills. unless these expansion project can incress the capcity ten fold...

 

Transit doesn't automaticly work out to "if you build it, they will come" (heck, that's not even the actual line to begin with),not even around here. People have to find it's use nessisary, and until the EU can stablize itself and stop making a wreck of our hard work here to fix our own problems, our economy is not going to stablize and we are not going to have a major incress in jobs. If there are no new jobs, then there will be no real growth in ridership.

 

If city jack up the gasoline taxes so that its $20 a gallon, we might be able to justify building this thing. And also solve traffic problems.

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Well a new Crosstown link could allow Amtrak to go to Long Island...:cool:

 

Amtrak is intercity rail, not commuter rail. Besides it is physically possible already for Amtrak to go to Long Island but that would never happen. What new crosstown link would give it access it doesn't already have?

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There have been a few wild but , doable ALT NEC Proposals. Build a Cross Town link , go through Long Island and over the Sound into Eastern CT. A few ppl put this line at 60 billion $$$ , but relieving the current NEC and serving more of the Region's population. Amtrak does need to build a New Cross-Town Tunnel , the current ones are 2 Dangerous and crumbling.....they also need to be brought up to In't Standards. Are you saying Hoboken Terminal has to be put underground?:eek:

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There have been a few wild but , doable ALT NEC Proposals. Build a Cross Town link , go through Long Island and over the Sound into Eastern CT. A few ppl put this line at 60 billion $$$ , but relieving the current NEC and serving more of the Region's population. Amtrak does need to build a New Cross-Town Tunnel , the current ones are 2 Dangerous and crumbling.....they also need to be brought up to In't Standards. Are you saying Hoboken Terminal has to be put underground?:eek:

How else are you going to cross the Hudson? It would have to be by tunnel. I mean yeah, it makes sense because you want to relieve pressure off the Pennsy tunnels. But then again, that means more money.

 

So, you would have to do either of the following to get that done:

-build a new station under Hoboken Terminal for the trains to NY, so that they can cross the Hudson

-build a new station further west along the tracks so that a doable slope can be done leading to a portal accessing a trans-Hudson tunnel

-landfill into the Hudson

 

The last option is by no-way feasible. Besides, the tree-huggers would go apesh!t about it. As for the first option, it would have to be below and perpendicular to the existing PATH tunnels. Which mean that there would be a steep gradient for trains going from the existing tracks west of the station into the new underground station. Because you are going to cross a rather wide river, the tunnel would have to be deep enough. More bucks on that. Lastly, a new station further west would be impractical as it would poorly connect to existing infrastructure.

 

So while the Hoboken thing looks nice on paper, it's impractical for obviating engineering reasons.

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In principle this looks like a great idea, but in reality it would take several modifications to work.

 

First of all, I would love to see Fulton via Hoboken, but to do that he would have to scrap the plans for the West Village station and build south-facing tracks, a tunnel portal south of the station, and a wide curve so that trains can descend in NJ and avoid the grade issues. As to the tunnel, I would definitely like to see a way to kill the bottleneck in the old Pennsy tunnels and this could work. The idea of bringing commuter rail to the Fulton Transit Center is definitely a good one; perhaps it will make the whole complex worth building after all.

I like the idea of a Sunnyside/East Bronx connection to the New Haven line. However, I do not like the idea of running commuter trains along dedicated Amtrak trackage. If you want to do that, then put the Amtrak trackage in a tunnel at least as far as New Rochelle and dedicate the old stretch to commuter rail service. I like the idea of stations at Sunnyside, Astoria, the South Bronx, and Pelham (in the Bronx). I am also completely liking the ideas of a connection between GCT and Penn, as well as the proposed GCT-Fulton and Fulton-Atlantic connections so that it would theoretically be possible to operate service between NJT, MNRR, and LIRR areas without a problem.

As to the idea of connecting the North Shore line and the SIR main line via direct tunnel to Fulton and GCT and via the Goethals Bridge to NJ, that leaves things to be desired. I don't mind seeing it done; however, I would prefer building additional trackage and routing that service via an offshoot tunnel leading out of Atlantic Terminal under 7 Av, curving east under Prospect Pk to avoid the cemetery, and continuing under McDonald. From there, it would curve around to face the Verrazano by about Bay Ridge Av, then tunnel under the Narrows to enter SI and stop at St. George (on new quadruple track) before connecting to the ball park station and then serving the North Shore to NJ as in the plan. An alternate route would be to follow the proposed route to Fulton St, then cut west to Hoboken via the proposed new Hudson tunnel. From there it would run down via Bayonne to SI and connect with the North Shore line. What do all of you think?

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I mean, aren't we building the ARC now? And isn't the ARC supposed to relieve pressure off the Pennsy? I get the point that yeah, only 2 new tunnels are built. But we have to see how much pressure is relieved before we go on to building additional Trans-Hudson tubes. Just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it's pragmatically good.

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