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What NYCT/MTA Bus service cuts you feel might be restored in few years if any?


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Guys let us for a short while look positive and the near future with this question. When this despression *cough* i mean global mega recession ends in few years, what (MTA) New York City Transit or (MTA) Bus cuts you feel might be or should be restored in few years if any are restored?

I offer my suggestions in bit.

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Guys let us for a short while look positive and the near future with this question. When this despression *cough* i mean global mega recession ends in few years, what (MTA) New York City Transit or (MTA) Bus cuts you feel might be or should be restored in few years if any are restored?

I offer my suggestions in bit.

Hell no

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To be honest, I can't really picture a whole lot of lines being restored. Even in 1995, when we had our last round of service cuts, you didn't see any of the lines being brought back in 2000 when the economy was booming.

 

Maybe the B24 weekend service, B71 service, and Q76 weekend service will come back. Other than that, I think the rest of the reductions are here to stay.

 

By the way, on the partial discontinuations, I found an approximate cost per passenger on that segment of the line based on the total number of people affected:

 

Baretto Park Pool Shuttle: $13.30

B3 Bergen Beach segment: $2.36

B4 Sheepshead Bay segment: $2.57

B12 Liberty Avenue segment: $1.52

B13 Williamsburg segment: $1.72

B48 Prospect Heights segment: $1.26

B64 Coney Island segment: $1.17

Q24 Bushwick segment: $0.83

M10 Midtown segment: $1.17

*M22 Battery Park City segment: $0.94

M42 Javits Center branch: $12.14

M98 Midtown segment: $13.33

M104 42nd Street segment: $0.46

S40/S90 Howland Hook segment: $25.64

 

* No longer under consideration

 

These figures were arrived at by multiplying the number of weekday riders affected by 5, adding on the number of weekend riders affected, and multiplying the result by 52 weeks. I then divided the savings by that many people to get the cost per rider.

The savings assume, of course, no loss in ridership (as the MTA probably did), and the cost per passenger can't be split up into weekday or weekend service.

 

My thoughts:

 

It looks like the Baretto Park Pool Shuttle, M42 Javits Center branch, M98 Midtown segment (surprising), and S40/S90 Howland Hook segment were wise choices.

As many of us have expressed, it is now clear that they plan to discontinue Bath Avenue service on the B64, as Harway Avenue was even more efficient than the main B64 route ($1.29 weekdays/$1.44 weekends vs. $1.17)

The M104 is probably really efficient on 42nd Street because it is a short segment of the route with a lot of turnover. The same reason why the B74 is really efficient even though the buses aren't always crushloaded (it feeds into the CI subway station and only goes a mile or so, while dropping off the loads it gets as a result of serving the subway station).

No comment on the B12, B13, B48, Q24, and M10.

 

Some of these routes were more efficient than we thought, and some were a lot less efficient than we thought.

 

This also leads into a way to calculate customer impact. Simply multiply the cost per passenger by the number of minutes that their trip will increase to find out which reductions are the least efficient in that regard.

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Guys let us for a short while look positive and the near future with this question. When this despression *cough* i mean global mega recession ends in few years, what (MTA) New York City Transit or (MTA) Bus cuts you feel might be or should be restored in few years if any are restored?

I offer my suggestions in bit.

I don't think all of the cuts will be restored, but some of them are gonna have to be revised in some way. I mean like checkmate said, when the cuts in 1995 occurred, did any of them came back? One exception was restoring weekend service on the Q42 but that backfired.

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I don't think all of the cuts will be restored, but some of them are gonna have to be revised in some way. I mean like checkmate said, when the cuts in 1995 occurred, did any of them came back? One exception was restoring weekend service on the Q42 but that backfired.

 

Well said both Q43 and Checkmate sadly.;)

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Never mind just 1995, bus cuts done in the past (before 1995) were not replaced or restored. Take a look at a crosstown running on Grand Street, that was cut in 1990, based on looking at past maps. I was never alive to testify the ridership, but all I can say is, it never got replaced. Talks were made to do something about it as recent as 5 years ago, but nothing happened.

 

Some of the services overlap anyway, for example the Bx25 is essentially the Bx26 except the Co-op City portion. If they do have the money in the future, chances are that they would take suggestions from the community boards and work on service that is going to exist.

 

And I think Kris mentioned this earlier on, a great deal of express bus routes overlap in the outer boroughs because they were from different companies. So reorganising them makes sense because you want to avoid costly redundancies.

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Some of the services overlap anyway, for example the Bx25 is essentially the Bx26 except the Co-op City portion. If they do have the money in the future, chances are that they would take suggestions from the community boards and work on service that is going to exist.

Also, the B67 and B69 on 7 Avenue are fairly redundant. The MTA is setting itself up for future cuts.

And I think Kris mentioned this earlier on, a great deal of express bus routes overlap in the outer boroughs because they were from different companies. So reorganising them makes sense because you want to avoid costly redundancies.

Agreed. This should have been done long ago, but it hasn't.

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There were plans to run the Q94 from Fordham Plz to Flushing. I don't know if that will get through once the dough comes later.

 

 

I think the only major 'new routes' extensions besides mergering Eastern Queens/western Nassau (NYCT)(MTA)bus lines like the Q12/N20-N21 on Northern Blvd, and on Hillside the Q43/N22/N22a is these 3 new extensions and routes.

 

 

1)Q94 that MTR mentioned.

 

2)New LGA-Bronx(Fordham Plaza area)route via the RFK Triboro Bridge also proposed by former (MTA) CEO Eliot Sander before this ecomonic crisis.

 

3)New Elizabeth/Newark Airport-Port Richmond route possibly run by Coach USA or Acemedy. If anyone has driven the Outerbridge and Gothelas Bridges are both busy 7 days a week not just weekday rush hours. Friday Nights and Sunday Nights(or Monday Evening of long Holiday weekend)can be brutal with bumper-bumper traffic.

 

I am not saying it will happen but based on future ridership patterns but we shall see around 2013-14 when the recession hopefully has ended.:)

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I just wanted to add to my list of costs for partially discontinued routes:

 

Q42 off-peak: $2.75

Q42 peak: $2.80

B4 Sheepshead Bay segment peak hours: $6.15

B4 Sheepshead Bay segment off-peak hours: $1.49

B13 Myrtle/Wycoff-DeKalb Avenue: $5.20

B13 DeKalb Avenue-Graham/Metropolitan Avenue: $1.72

B13 west of Myrtle/Wycoff: $2.76

 

I question why the B13 wasn't totally saved. I guess the MTA is trying to save every penny, even if it means eliminating a relatively efficient part of the route.

Once again, I can't imagine why B4 service wasn't maintained off-peak.

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I think the only major 'new routes' extensions besides mergering Eastern Queens/western Nassau (NYCT)(MTA)bus lines like the Q12/N20-N21 on Northern Blvd, and on Hillside the Q43/N22/N22a is these 3 new extensions and routes.

 

 

1)Q94 that MTR mentioned.

 

2)New LGA-Bronx(Fordham Plaza area)route via the RFK Triboro Bridge also proposed by former (MTA) CEO Eliot Sander before this ecomonic crisis.

 

3)New Elizabeth/Newark Airport-Port Richmond route possibly run by Coach USA or Acemedy. If anyone has driven the Outerbridge and Gothelas Bridges are both busy 7 days a week not just weekday rush hours. Friday Nights and Sunday Nights(or Monday Evening of long Holiday weekend)can be brutal with bumper-bumper traffic.

 

I am not saying it will happen but based on future ridership patterns but we shall see around 2013-14 when the recession hopefully has ended.:)

Hmm.. EWR to Staten Island.. Academy could run this. But not the MTA itself, I think.

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My opinions:

 

The (V) will never come back, but the new (M) might get more rush-hour service.

The (W) will have to come back when SAS Phase I enters service. I don't think it will run middays/evenings though.

 

Q79 peak/Q76 Saturday might return

 

B39/B51/x25/x90/x20/x16/x18/N93/N65-67 will never come back

 

M6 might come back, if only south of Houston St

M21 weekend service on the new route might come back

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If we see anything, it will probibly be brand new routes or extenstions of the existing ones.

 

One I could see is extending the M15 Houston Street short-turns to Marcy Avenue if the MTA's hand is forced by a federal judge, if there is an ADA lawsuit over the B39 being axed.

 

The B13 was maintained to Wyckoff Heights Hospital for ADA reasons. I will bet the house that the B39 discontinuing draws a lawsuit.

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My opinions:

 

The (V) will never come back, but the new (M) might get more rush-hour service.

The (W) will have to come back when SAS Phase I enters service. I don't think it will run middays/evenings though.

 

Q79 peak/Q76 Saturday might return

 

B39/B51/x25/x90/x20/x16/x18/N93/N65-67 will never come back

 

M6 might come back, if only south of Houston St

M21 weekend service on the new route might come back

 

The X25/X90 are being brought back by a private operator June 28th. How long he will hold on to the routes is anybody's guess.

I agree with your thoughts about the X20 and N93 (not at $83.97 per passenger :eek:).

The X18 wasn't the best choices of routes to cut, since their cost per passenger reallly isn't that high ($8.76). Taking local routes to the ferry would increase the trip time of an average X18 customer by 30-40 minutes (though surprisingly, taking a local route down to Narrows Road South only increases the trip time by about 10 minutes). Community protest might be able to get them to bring the X18 back (though it is, admittedly, highly unlikely)

They were actually correct about the X16. Due to its circuituous route, alternatives such as local buses to the ferry, local buses to other express routes, and the X14 actually are a few minutes faster than the X16. That cut probably is there to stay.

The B39 might come back because Delancey Street isn't ADA accessable (then again, we have yet to hear from Bushwick about the Q24).

The B51 isn't coming back because it duplicates subway routes.

The N65-67 might be able to be saved if the school pays LI Bus for the operating expenses (highly unlikely)

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One I could see is extending the M15 Houston Street short-turns to Marcy Avenue if the MTA's hand is forced by a federal judge, if there is an ADA lawsuit over the B39 being axed.

 

The B13 was maintained to Wyckoff Heights Hospital for ADA reasons. I will bet the house that the B39 discontinuing draws a lawsuit.

 

Great point. Or maybe an extension/merger of either the B24 or Q59 on soon to be former B39 as well if that ADA Willie B lawsuit occurs. I am surprised it has not already happened.

 

In end I think the Broad St bound (J) platform at Essex will become ADA accesible and then Brooklyn(Williamsburg Bridge)Queens ADA riders will have to transfer at Bowery or Canal to go back.

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Great point. Or maybe an extension/merger of either the B24 or Q59 on soon to be former B39 as well if that ADA Willie B lawsuit occurs. I am surprised it has not already happened.

 

In end I think the Broad St bound (J) platform at Essex will become ADA accesible and then Brooklyn(Williamsburg Bridge)Queens ADA riders will have to transfer at Bowery or Canal to go back.

There's gonna be plenty more ADA lawsuits where that came from

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The New M will have ADA acces, a deferince if anything.

 

 

It wont be at Essex anytime soon. It be at Bway/Lafeyette, (soon to open)West 4th or 34th St/Hearld Sq that is ADA ready. The West 4th elevators are always seem to be out of service.Plus not everyone is going to Central Midtown, or the Village.

That why the B39 IMO should have stayed at least as a Monday-Saturday route for those going to the East Side via the M15as most of the (6) Lex Line stations are still not ADA ready and access to the Lower East Side.

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I think the B71 will come back for the fall due to it being a high school route. That's about it...

 

I doubt it. Almost all of the affected routes/route segments serve one school or another. If it were to be restored, it would be because of community outcry and complaints about long walks to the B61/B65.

 

By the way, I found a good thing about the M5 extension. It has all day limited-stop service compared with peak hour-only limited-stop service on the M1.

From the new timetable, it says limited-stop service will start at Waverly Place. That serves former M6 customers in Lower Manhattan and speeds up the trip for the Midtown-bound customers.

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The B51 and B39 will likely return because the elderly and disabled will have an incredibly difficult time crossing boroughs, and several stations aren't ADA-compatible.

 

By the way, I found a good thing about the M5 extension. It has all day limited-stop service compared with peak hour-only limited-stop service on the M1.

From the new timetable, it says limited-stop service will start at Waverly Place. That serves former M6 customers in Lower Manhattan and speeds up the trip for the Midtown-bound customers.

With the M5's rep of being a constantly late bus route, I doubt that will help the customers. The M5/6 merger makes the M5 the longest Manhattan route, and longer routes tend to make routes much slower and harder to keep on track, limited or not. I wouldn't be shocked if the M6 returns by next year because no one would want to take a much slower M5 all the way.
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I don't think the M5 would be slower than the M6. It would be more delay-prone, but on the segments that it is replacing the M6, it wouldn't be slower.

Nobody right now takes the M5 all the way. As a long route, it is much quicker to take the subway if you are traveling long distances (Nobody is going to go from Lower Manhattan to Washington Heights on one bus, they'll get to the A train and take that to the bus terminal).

As far as lateness goes, that is, obviously a problem over the shorter M1/M6 routes. If the MTA truly wants to figure out a way of making this extension work, they'll probably shorten it on the northern end (like some people suggested, swap the M5/M104 terminals, since the M104 is being shortened to 8th Avenue).

All I'm saying is that this is one bright side of the M5 extension. The issue of lateness is an issue that will have to be worked on.

 

By the way, if the M5 were to be shortened to Houston Street, I wouldn't be too sure that the M6 would be brought back. The MTA still wants to save on operating costs and might try extending the M7 to South Ferry (the M1 is being shortened to 106th Street weekends), or just leave Broadway/6th Avenue south of Houston Street without bus service, like their original plan.

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The B51 and B39 will likely return because the elderly and disabled will have an incredibly difficult time crossing boroughs, and several stations aren't ADA-compatible.

 

With the M5's rep of being a constantly late bus route, I doubt that will help the customers. The M5/6 merger makes the M5 the longest Manhattan route, and longer routes tend to make routes much slower and harder to keep on track, limited or not. I wouldn't be shocked if the M6 returns by next year because no one would want to take a much slower M5 all the way.

I could see the B39 getting revived for that reason. Less likely the B51. I think though, that the MTA might provide a special bus running from Willy B Terminal to Essex or Allen, similar to the one that runs from 14th Street/8th Ave to WTC because the (E) formerly used the PATH elevators at WTC and those were taken OOS. That bus in on-demand. If anything, the MTA might run something like that rather reinstating the B39.

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I'm still waiting for the B82 to get split back... guess I'll keep waiting

 

My point?

aint none of these routes (or portions of routes) are gonna be reverted....

 

Baretto Park Pool Shuttle: $13.30 - why the MTA even provided this service is beyond me....

 

* B3 Bergen Beach segment: $2.36 - should've never gotten reinstated after the first time it was set to get cut...

 

* B4 Sheepshead Bay segment: $2.57 - as much as I want the B4 to continue serving that area full time, the MTA is gonna simply direct riders to "take the 36"...

 

* B12 Liberty Avenue segment: $1.52 - this wont come back in any form; that area has NO political pull... demand is next to nothing... and the MTA kept sending more & more 12's to end at Alabama {before it was every other bus... then every two buses... then every three buses)... I think this truncation was going to happen sometime soon anyway (as being part of a string of massive cuts throughout the system, or not)

 

* B13 Williamsburg segment: $1.72 - that extension to Williamsburg was done to shut up w/e riders existed on the old B18... Having it go no further than Wyckoff hosp. is what the original extension should've encompassed....

 

* B48 Prospect Heights segment: $1.26 - this one I don't quite fully understand... I mean, outside of forcing riders on the Franklin av (S)... not sure if the mta is looking to restructure this route in the future, or outright cut it, or what....

 

* B64 Coney Island segment: $1.17 - looks like the B3 & the 64 will interline... if this was the focal point of that part of the cut... all I have to say is lol.....

 

* Q24 Bushwick segment: $0.83 - another useless portion of the route (similar situation w/ the B12 along liberty)... justified... that part of broadway is dead... this aint coming back....

 

* M10 Midtown segment: $1.17 - wish this one wouldn't have happened, but it made sense to cut this short *somewhere*

 

so megabus (and all the tour buses) now have more room to park along 31st now *shrugs*

 

* M98 Midtown segment: $13.33 - if something isn't anymore obvious, the axing of this route in the future due to this truncation, is it.... I wanna know what study was done as to where stopping the route short, around 68th st or w/e was justified... I mean, that seems so... random....

 

* M104 42nd Street segment: $0.46 - one of the few cuts that I think, that would impact as many riders, made sense...

 

artics on the M42 anyone?

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