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One Little Question


MTAFan

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I never saw the Low V's run on the Flushing line. On nycsubway.org, I saw pictures of the Low V's on the Flushing line in 1979. Why dosen't the Low V's run on the Flushing line anymore?

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I never saw the Low V's run on the Flushing line. On nycsubway.org, I saw pictures of the Low V's on the Flushing line in 1979. Why dosen't the Low V's run on the Flushing line anymore?

Because they got retired. That's why they don't run on them anymore.

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I never saw the Low V's run on the Flushing line. On nycsubway.org, I saw pictures of the Low V's on the Flushing line in 1979. Why dosen't the Low V's run on the Flushing line anymore?

 

The Low V's on the Flushing Line in 1979 were for the Diamond Jubilee Anniversary (75th Anniversary of the I.R.T.). That year, they also ran on the White Plains Road Line and other I.R.T. Lines.

 

The original Steinway Lo V's were supplemented in 1939 by 50 new World's Fair Low V's (named for the great 1939-1940 World's Fair that was held in Queens).

 

These began being replaced in 1948-1949 with the arrival of 50 new R12s. The Steinway Lo V's were retired and the 1939-1940 World's Fair cars went to the Third Avenue El 70(8) being retired by 1970.

 

It's possible the Board Of Transportation based their figure on the 1939-1940 World's Fair Low V order and that could be why the R12s totaled only 50 cars. They were followed in 1950 by 100 new R15s and together these provided service supplemented with R14s and R17s until the R36 World's Fair cars began to arrive in 1964.

 

Until the R62As, the Flushing Line had a tradition of receiving its' own cars (Steinway Lo V's, 1939-1940 World's Fair Low V's, R12s, R15s and R36 World's Fair).

 

There were forty R33 World's Fair cars built as singles to make eleven car trains (the R36 World's Fair cars were built as "married pairs".)

 

Low V = Low Voltage and the Steinways were one of three: Standard Low V; The Flivver Low V and the Steinway Low V. These replaced the High V's (High Voltage) of which there were the Gibbs High V and Hedley High V.

 

On a side note: The Flushing Line was interesting, car-wise, in the days when the I.R.T., Second Avenue El and the B.M.T. all provided service.

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The Low V's on the Flushing Line in 1979 were for the Diamond Jubilee Anniversary (75th Anniversary of the I.R.T.). That year, they also ran on the White Plains Road Line and other I.R.T. Lines.

 

The original Steinway Lo V's were supplemented in 1939 by 50 new World's Fair Low V's (named for the great 1939-1940 World's Fair that was held in Queens).

 

These began being replaced in 1948-1949 with the arrival of 50 new R12s. The Steinway Lo V's were retired and the 1939-1940 World's Fair cars went to the Third Avenue El 70(8) being retired by 1970.

 

It's possible the Board Of Transportation based their figure on the 1939-1940 World's Fair Low V order and that could be why the R12s totaled only 50 cars. They were followed in 1950 by 100 new R15s and together these provided service supplemented with R14s and R17s until the R36 World's Fair cars began to arrive in 1964.

 

Until the R62As, the Flushing Line had a tradition of receiving its' own cars (Steinway Lo V's, 1939-1940 World's Fair Low V's, R12s, R15s and R36 World's Fair).

 

There were forty R33 World's Fair cars built as singles to make eleven car trains (the R36 World's Fair cars were built as "married pairs".)

 

Low V = Low Voltage and the Steinways were one of three: Standard Low V; The Flivver Low V and the Steinway Low V. These replaced the High V's (High Voltage) of which there were the Gibbs High V and Hedley High V.

 

On a side note: The Flushing Line was interesting, car-wise, in the days when the I.R.T., Second Avenue El and the B.M.T. all provided service.

 

How did they handle the wider BMT cars in that era? Was there a huge gap when IRT cars pulled into the stations?

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How did they handle the wider BMT cars in that era? Was there a huge gap when IRT cars pulled into the stations?

During the Joint Service Era, the B.M.T. provided service with el cars from Queensborough Plaza to Main Street (and to Ditmars Boulevard).

 

For the same 1939-1940 World's Fair, the B.M.T. converted these cars (dating from 1903) into the Q Cars by enclosing the ends. The Q Cars retired with the closing of the Myrtle Avenue El on October 4, 1969.

 

B.M.T. cars like the AB Standards, D-Triplexs, Bluebird, Green Hornet and Multis never served on the Flushing (or Astoria Line (before 1948-1949)).

 

Queensborough Plaza station used to be twice its' present size.

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Couple of things in response to everyone who commented, a few things that need to be corrected:

 

FIRST, With Lo-V's there are different types, and within each type there are motors and trailers.

 

Standard Lo-V's - ran on the mainlines

Steinway Lo-V's - looked like standard Lo-V's, although the gear ratio was different to allow a train to climb the steep grades of the Steinway tubes

World's Fair Lo-V's - the cars built for the 1938 Worlds Fair, the last IRT order of subway cars. Featured bulkhead destination signs (standard and Steinway Lo-V's did not). These cars were geared like Steinway Lo-V cars to climb the Steinway tubes. Therefore all World's Fair Lo-V's are Steinway Lo-V's, but not all Steinway Lo-V's are World's Fair Lo-V's.

Flivvers - Technically a Lo-V because it used Low Voltage (battery circuit) propulsion control. However, it had a Hi-V brake package with ME-21 brake stand and under car "R" type triple valve (AMRE) as opposed to the AMUE set up used by Lo-V cars which used an ME-23 stand and UE-5 universal valve. Flivvers were incompatible with all other Lo-V's as a result.

 

SECOND, to the OP: The cars that run on Flushing had to be Steinway Lo-V's or World's Fair Lo-V's because they featured the gear ratio necessary to climb out of the Steinway tubes. The photo from 1979 was the Diamond Jubilee which featured Standard Lo-V's (museum cars) but there was a much higher ratio of motor cars to trailer cars than a typical consist in that train which is why they could appear out there. The ratio of motors to trailers during these cars' heydays would have precluded that option as there would be a shortage of motor cars were that to happen.

 

THIRD, Hi-V's also included a third group known as the Deck Roofs. The Gibbs and Hedley cars featured standard railroad style roofs unlike these. The Gibbs cars also equipped with sliding doors that could seal off the operator's vestibule from the rest of the car. Both the Deck Roofs and Gibbs cars were not originally equipped with center doors. MOST of the Hedleys (Standard Hi-V's) came with center doors, but I am not positive if all did.

 

FOURTH, the Lo-V's did not "replace" the Hi-V's. They were an additional order of new equipment designed to accomodate the expanding IRT service during the Dual Contract construction. Hi-V's continued to run in subway tunnels for many years. Many Lo-V's did, however, replace the IRT Composites, which were protected wooden cars that ran in the IRT subway since 1904. In 1916, the Composites were moved to the elevated division of the IRT (formerly Manhattan Elevated) to provide a safer place for their wooden bodies in an environment where the threat of fire, or collision with tunnel wall in the event of derailment was not as likely.

 

FIFTH, during joint IRT - BRT/BMT operation in Queens, BOTH IRT and BRT/BMT equipment ran side by side on the Flushing and Astoria Lines. However all equipment running east of Queensboro Plaza was IRT width (including the elevated cars run out there by BRT/BMT). Queensboro Plaza station did originally feature 4 platforms on 2 levels and 8 tracks, and you can still see a hint of the remnants at the station today. This allowed trains coming from either the Steinway or 60th Street tubes OR the 59th Street Bridge (2nd Ave El) to provide through service. It also contained a pocket for a train to run between Astoria and Queensboro Plaza. BRT/BMT subway cars could use the northern platforms which accomodated larger width equipment. Both companies operated IRT width equipment over the Flushing and Astoria lines EAST of Queensboro Plaza. Therefore a passenger coming from the 60th Street tube could transfer across the platform from a wider BRT/BMT subway train to an IRT width elevated train which provided service to points east. This pattern continued until 1949, when the BMT division of the Board of Transportation was determined to run Astoria bound trains while the Flushing line was given over to the IRT division.

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