LexAveExp5 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #26 Posted June 25, 2010 and the reason why the union is so adamant about a 3% wage increase rather than a 3% one-time bonus is because when the next round of contract negotiations comes around, the raise will be compounded on the higher number rather than the current wage. and on and on and on, forever really. once you give up a raise you can never get that back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primomjr78 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #27 Posted June 25, 2010 Lex Small question why would you want to leave a well paying govt job for the mta???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #28 Posted June 25, 2010 ive answered that before. its SOOO boring working for the post office, even though im an equipment operator now (forklift, jitney, tug once they teach me). our pensions aren't 50% of our salary like the . its about 37% (and we have to save the rest on our own through the Thrift Savings Plan, which is like a 401(k) ) and i have to stay until im 57 and since i started the week before i turned 20 thats 37 years in a boring place! i LOVE trains, i may not be a "foamer" who cares about the latest subway cars and all of that, but i was in LOVE with the railfan window on the when i went to high school on the east side from 1999-2003. the salary at the is slightly higher than what i make now. im a top salary mail handler. even though it takes 13 years to reach top salary i made supervisor in 2008 and was sent back to mail handler because of the Reduction In Force cuts, and although i didnt get to keep my salary of 55k i got to go to top step mail handler at 52k (plus sunday premium and night differential to put me just south of 60k). as an equipment operator im also a higher level, but as a train operator i'd STILL make more than 60k just on my base alone. healthcare as of right now i pay $44/ check while pays a little less. so the 3 major benefits are better, plus its something i actually wanna do :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 25, 2010 Share #29 Posted June 25, 2010 Overtime? man its gotten so bad that management is not filling in runs when guys go sick or on a random, and they give the extra list guys most of the shuttle work on the weekends so they don't have to pay the ot to the guys that request it. they got a lot of guys saying that they are falling behind in their mortgage and car notes and other stuff so i think that 3% will kill a lot of us. Easy to say things when you dont walk in thier shoes i guess... Gotta love the "numbers" people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 25, 2010 Share #30 Posted June 25, 2010 If you were one of us you would know that is changing too,but you're not,so you don't. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 25, 2010 Share #31 Posted June 25, 2010 they just refuse to hear that they have it better than everyone else. doesnt matter what math you show them, primo Tell him he forgot to add on co pays and for a "better" plan you have to pay more out of your pocket since the basic one stinks... I wont even touch Dental..... I had Better Benefits when i was a Plumber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #32 Posted June 25, 2010 how much is the better plan? is it GHI or HIP? how much is dental? what does dental cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted June 25, 2010 Share #33 Posted June 25, 2010 Easy to say things when you dont walk in thier shoes i guess... Gotta love the "numbers" people... SubwayGuy will probably agree with me on this. My mother is an accountant, and she'll be the first to say that numbers can be absolute on paper and still variable in the real world; that is, their value is subject to interpretation and can be viewed as little more than conversational fodder at a management cocktail party funded by workforce reductions. I found this great blurb regarding an Albert Einstein quote, which I'll paraphrase: a number by itself has no significance and only deserves the designation of "number" by virtue of its being a member of a group of objects with some shared characteristics. That having been stated, people really should not comment on salaries, benefits, overtime, etcetera until they've actually been the recipient of said "numbers." The grass is not exactly greener on that side of the fence. The same can be said for the people up top who control and manipulate the numbers and would rather use math in lieu of reality than use reality in lieu of math. Employees are numbers because they're a member of a group of similar objects. As far as management is concerned, they love the fact that, to them, each employee is a unique number without any significance. They forget what it was like when they received allowance and could only afford baseball cards, a soda and a few candy bars. Now, these people are acting as if those revenue and operations maintenance workers who tirelessly and faithfully keep the money coming in should receive nothing more than their own allowance, as if five tours was a paper route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted June 25, 2010 Share #34 Posted June 25, 2010 LexSmall question why would you want to leave a well paying govt job for the mta???? Good question. ive answered that before. its SOOO boring working for the post office, even though im an equipment operator now (forklift, jitney, tug once they teach me). our pensions aren't 50% of our salary like the . its about 37% (and we have to save the rest on our own through the Thrift Savings Plan, which is like a 401(k) ) and i have to stay until im 57 and since i started the week before i turned 20 thats 37 years in a boring place! i LOVE trains, i may not be a "foamer" who cares about the latest subway cars and all of that, but i was in LOVE with the railfan window on the when i went to high school on the east side from 1999-2003. the salary at the is slightly higher than what i make now. im a top salary mail handler. even though it takes 13 years to reach top salary i made supervisor in 2008 and was sent back to mail handler because of the Reduction In Force cuts, and although i didnt get to keep my salary of 55k i got to go to top step mail handler at 52k (plus sunday premium and night differential to put me just south of 60k). as an equipment operator im also a higher level, but as a train operator i'd STILL make more than 60k just on my base alone. healthcare as of right now i pay $44/ check while pays a little less. so the 3 major benefits are better, plus its something i actually wanna do :cool: Great reply. I love the honesty. Nice job! :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman Posted June 25, 2010 Share #35 Posted June 25, 2010 if they are going to make us pay, it should be a flat rate......i know supervision in the stations departments(not sure about rto, etc) they pay a flat rate per check.......... 30 years is a long time in this enviorment imo, but i can see why ta came up with that #, because you got guys with that amount of time still down here....... as for the selling out the unborns, he may not have a choice.....does sammuelsen want his tenure as twu president to be remembered as having current memebers laid off to save people that arent even hired yet? as for the 3%, i wouldnt give that up.........the deal they are offering in replacement of that is absurd........ Paragraph 1) Supervisors hired after their last contract was ratified (about two years ago) have to pay the same rate for health benefits as TWU workers. 2) Realistically, a 30/57 pension wouldn't be a bad step back as most people who retire around that age already have 30+ years in the system. The percentage would be slightly lower, but that can easily be made up with consistent OT. 3) You're absolutely right. 4) I wouldn't give up the 3% either, but I would be willing to pay a slightly higher rate for health benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful Posted June 25, 2010 Share #36 Posted June 25, 2010 How many of you are on the chopping block? I bet next to none that are posting here. I'm on the Lay off list and to you- 94.00 a month after taxes is a big difference- imagine the people who will loose their entire salaries! It is quite pathetic when people talk about loosing 3% not realizing in the coming months, there might be a total of 3000 lay offs just over that tiny percentage. Here is an opportunity for Samuelson to save the due paying members and for other members to step forward and help their own. The even bigger picture is, THEY GET TO SAVE THE UNION!!! Most of the workers that play and hide by the union rules would have a weaker union coming up because of less members, less support, less everything..... Sometimes the picture is bigger than you. Oh I'm a 3rd gen TA worker and from what I have heard...this deal is still sweeter than all of Pataki days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted June 25, 2010 Share #37 Posted June 25, 2010 SubwayGuy will probably agree with me on this. My mother is an accountant, and she'll be the first to say that numbers can be absolute on paper and still variable in the real world; that is, their value is subject to interpretation and can be viewed as little more than conversational fodder at a management cocktail party funded by workforce reductions. I found this great blurb regarding an Albert Einstein quote, which I'll paraphrase: a number by itself has no significance and only deserves the designation of "number" by virtue of its being a member of a group of objects with some shared characteristics. That having been stated, people really should not comment on salaries, benefits, overtime, etcetera until they've actually been the recipient of said "numbers." The grass is not exactly greener on that side of the fence. The same can be said the people up top who control and manipulate the numbers would rather use math in lieu of reality than use reality in lieu of math. Employees are numbers because they're a member of group of similar objects. As far as management is concerned, they love the fact that, to them, each employee is a unique number without any significance. They forget what it was like when they received allowance and could only afford baseball cards, a soda and a few candy bars. Now, these people are acting as if those revenue and operations maintenance who tirelessly and faithfully keep the money coming in should receive nothing more than their allowance, as if five tours was a paper route. 100% accurate. Numbers can be made to say whatever you want. Often times half truths are one of the "best" ways that the ******* bean counters use to get what they want. For instance, it is easy to say that labor costs or benefits have skyrocketed over the last few years and give a percentage, and say that is cause to cut benefits, or increase employee contributions, or copays. However if you look at the healthcare industry as a whole it is spiraling out of control and has been for the last two decades unchecked. Furthermore it will continue to until some real form of competition is introduced. For bean counters, they just want to cut things and lay people off. However they don't look at required service or system safety and ask what THAT will cost them when it is cut. What happens if crime goes up in subway stations that are now not staffed by S/A's, and lawsuits are filed by victims who say that MTA is not keeping the stations safe? That adds legal costs, and lots of them, since the settlements and verdicts tend to be sizable in those cases. What happens when a conductorless train has an incident, and somebody gets hurt? What happens when an OPTO T/O overruns a station and it causes a problem? Or reports to work drunk, overruns a couple stations, and the C/R is not there to call it in? Also, how does TA plan to keep trains running with a reduced headcount? They're going to have to pay more overtime, and there's going to be less cushion which might mean ABD intervals, etc. They won't have to pay additional workers' benefits, but they'll be paying existing workers more, and they'll continue paying them more as they boost their pensions. They think they're saving money in the long term if they go to Tier 5, but the benefits of that will not even begin to come for another 20-30 years. Meanwhile any buyouts they offer make the budget picture WORSE in the short term. By the time we are in our 60's, Tier 5 might actually be a good deal. We might be talking Tier 7 and 40/75 by that time. And THAT might even be a good deal compared to what the private sector will be offering. The numbers can be made to say whatever you want. The important question is which numbers do you look at and use, how many numbers do you use, and what do you do when you learn what the numbers are being made to say today. It's like all you Yankee fans out there. It's easy to say A-Rod has 50 RBI in 66 games, he's having a nice year. But someone else could just as easily say he's hitting .280 and only has 9 home runs, so this is not a strong year. But if you just look at the 50 RBI you think he's having a great year. If you look at .280/9 you think he's not doing well at all (for a superstar). But neither is really accurate. The truth is somewhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #38 Posted June 25, 2010 They think they're saving money in the long term if they go to Tier 5, but the benefits of that will not even begin to come for another 20-30 years. Meanwhile any buyouts they offer make the budget picture WORSE in the short term. By the time we are in our 60's, Tier 5 might actually be a good deal. We might be talking Tier 7 and 40/75 by that time. And THAT might even be a good deal compared to what the private sector will be offering. lol i actually thought about that. i'd be the envy of all my friends, yes. but deep down in my heart i'll know that if it wasnt for the Great Recession i could have had 25/55 locked in and guaranteed way back in 2012. oh and then i'll die of steel dust as soon as i finish that thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #39 Posted June 25, 2010 What happens when a conductorless train has an incident, and somebody gets hurt? What happens when an OPTO T/O overruns a station and it causes a problem? Or reports to work drunk, overruns a couple stations, and the C/R is not there to call it in? i get the point of the post. but on a side track, isnt OPTO when they take away the conductor because the train is operating itself? so how can a T/O overrun a station? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 25, 2010 Share #40 Posted June 25, 2010 i get the point of the post. but on a side track, isnt OPTO when they take away the conductor because the train is operating itself? so how can a T/O overrun a station? Negative when the train moves by itself its called ATO(There is a T/O and C/R on board) But heres the kicker ATO the train is supposed to do everything by itself(Door Operation and movement) you think the is going to allow that?? Here???? LOL no Effing way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 25, 2010 Share #41 Posted June 25, 2010 how much is the better plan? is it GHI or HIP? how much is dental? what does dental cover? I have GHI "High Option" and that takes another 100 bucks out of my paycheck. The Dental with High Option only gives you an "amount" (i think its 1200 bucks) a year to spend on dental after that its all out of your pocket. You be shocked how fast that goes before the year is out thats just with reg work. Lets not even talk when you get to pulling teeth, caps and crowns. As well as oral surgery, or dental implants(which arent covered). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #42 Posted June 25, 2010 Negative when the train moves by itself its called ATO(There is a T/O and C/R on board) But heres the kicker ATO the train is supposed to do everything by itself(Door Operation and movement) you think the is going to allow that?? Here???? LOL no Effing way... there arent any lines doing ATO right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 25, 2010 Share #43 Posted June 25, 2010 there arent any lines doing ATO right? The Line is but as i said the ATO part that is being used is the train moving by itself thats it. T/O and C/R are on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdi919 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #44 Posted June 25, 2010 walder is a sneaky f**k. lets say the union takes the deal then he turns around and continues the layoffs. twu should not give in. station agents have been a target for years ever since they introduced the metrocard so i dont think we should give back for a title thats going to be phased out. ATD and towers are also dead titles. the atd's were already informed they are going back to their former titles. some were out of title for a year or more so they start back at the bottom. unless there are mass retirements no title is safe. i was told today by a tss that even junior tss may be sent back. this place is becoming london real fast. once its totally f**ked walder will stroll out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #45 Posted June 25, 2010 The Line is but as i said the ATO part that is being used is the train moving by itself thats it. T/O and C/R are on board. ok, cuz everyone else is calling that OPTO, not ATO. thats why i was confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdi919 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #46 Posted June 25, 2010 ok, cuz everyone else is calling that OPTO, not ATO. thats why i was confused at night it was both but twu fought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #47 Posted June 25, 2010 walder is a sneaky f**k. lets say the union takes the deal then he turns around and continues the layoffs. twu should not give in. station agents have been a target for years ever since they introduced the metrocard so i dont think we should give back for a title thats going to be phased out. ATD and towers are also dead titles. the atd's were already informed they are going back to their former titles. some were out of title for a year or more so they start back at the bottom. unless there are mass retirements no title is safe. i was told today by a tss that even junior tss may be sent back. this place is becoming london real fast. once its totally f**ked walder will stroll out the door. So how are you going to feel about your statement when walder and company really feel your title is really antiqued and go full steam ahead with OPTO??? I can understand how you feel about give backs, nobody likes it. It's very easy for you to say which titles are dead, but to say the things your saying almost sounds selfish because for now your title is safe. This is exactly what they want. For us to be separate, scared and selfish. It's easier to control us that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdi919 Posted June 25, 2010 Share #48 Posted June 25, 2010 So how are you going to feel about your statement when walder and company really feel your title is really antiqued and go full steam ahead with OPTO??? I can understand how you feel about give backs, nobody likes it. It's very easy for you to say which titles are dead, but to say the things your saying almost sounds selfish because for now your title is safe. This is exactly what they want. For us to be separate, scared and selfish. It's easier to control us that way. my title is not safe. conductors are going to be laid off soon too. from what i here at least 300. its easy to say certain titles are dead because thats the reality of the situation. i'm on the tower list and know ill never get called. like i said earlier no title is safe. they have even downsized at rail control which could lead to problems. i may get laid off also and if it happens i still say no give backs. because thats how a union stays strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primomjr78 Posted June 26, 2010 Share #49 Posted June 26, 2010 Cdi, They are not going to layoff conductors . If they layoff conductors I will never post on here again. They need conductors to run the trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelham Bay Dave Posted June 26, 2010 Share #50 Posted June 26, 2010 Right now in A Div RCC is begging C/R's to work overtime late clears and RDO'S open everyday but mosty late clears. T/O OT is opening up now instead of covering a job sometimes they ask people to do the extra trip and you have lots of takers but they do end up with a few ABD's like Thursday the 6 had two During the day. The new thing now is to not cover station switch jobs like at Pelham if the switchman is out whatever gets layed up is a Waa T/O a TSS or a road T/O whoever suppose to make a Interval with that train lays it up and the trip is a ABD. This is the new way to run line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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