New Fantasy Map

[Alargule]

I realize that would require a lot of work in Williamsburg and along 14th St...

 

Hey, that's what fantasy maps are for!

[TheArr]

Does anyone live on Governor's island? I mean there's apartments everywhere and a small school, but otherwise it seems devoid of humans except for a pickup truck that circles the island every now and then. If an insignificant amount of people live there (I think that's the case), there's not much justification for extending the there.

[Roadcruiser1]

Huh he didn't create any Governor's Island service in his recent map. Govenor's Island is good place for a subway connection because the Mayor wants to convert it into a park and a neighborhood. Unless you are talking about Randall-Ward Island, but a subway line there is useful too because there is a large park, baseball fields, and a residential area and they can use one too.

[Luis1985]

hey, your map is amazing!! however im a little confused. which letter or number runs on the lines u created? it took me a while to find where the M goes, lol. overall, i like your map.

[BJSm]

Huh he didn't create any Governor's Island service in his recent map. Govenor's Island is good place for a subway connection because the Mayor wants to convert it into a park and a neighborhood. Unless you are talking about Randall-Ward Island, but a subway line there is useful too because there is a large park, baseball fields, and a residential area and they can use one too.

 

 

Yeah, I debated sending the T to Governors Island (before Union St/Columbia St) on this latest map. I decided against it purely arbitrarily. I think Governors Island could use a subway stop once the current plans for redevelopment go through--although part of the stipulations of the sale of the island to the city included that it not be used for residential development.

 

Maybe NYU should pay for part of the subway extension there if they do end up building a campus on the island.

 

Anyway, I'm thinking about cutting the Kings Hwy and Parsons Blvd Lines. I think those routes are better served by buses; subways would be pretty empty. And there is still service connecting the different lines in Brooklyn and Queens, on the X in Brooklyn (and the Coney Island terminal) and the Queens Boulevard Line in Queens.

[BJSm]

Here's a slightly modified version without the cross-Brooklyn and cross-Queens lines. Also fixed the missing labels on the L/O/X and switched the southern terminals of the T and Y (to avoid the Y being a near-loop, although the E still is).

 

[BJSm]

Bump for further comments/suggestions...

[Rell]

Possibly a short extension of the ( & to the at Eastchester ~

 

btw where did you get the original map like this ?

[Gorgor]

btw where did you get the original map like this ?

 

http://www.amadeus.net/home/new/subwaymaps/en/new-york.htm - It's a few years old though

[BJSm]

Some clean-up, some minor modifications. Implemented Alargule's Atlantic Ave bypass plan, all credit to him for it. Should be easier to figure out which lines go where now.

 

Comments and suggestions always welcome.

 

Also, didn't extend the ( to Eastchester because there isn't much demand for that, and the routing up to Edenwald is already a little tenuous (is it really necessary past Gun Hill Rd?).

 

[NX Express]

The half-thickness lines are harder to see, especially when there are 6 colors on one line.

[Roadcruiser1]

I think you should have had kept that Brooklyn Crosstown line. The buses in Brooklyn are extremely crowded so there is demand for such a route, but since there is no room to implement it on your map you should now just create the Triboro RX.

[Alargule]

Some clean-up, some minor modifications. Implemented Alargule's Atlantic Ave bypass plan, all credit to him for it. Should be easier to figure out which lines go where now.

 

Ah, I see Yes, I believe this bypass would better serve transfers between the Fulton St Line/SAS and IRT and BMT lines at Atlantic Av/Pacific St. This could then become the "Atlantic Avenue Transit Center" B)

 

Your map is still a wet dream, but if there's one thing I don't like about your map, it's the extensive amount of interlacing of trains. Might seem like a good idea from a rider's point of view (more one-seat rides), but it would result in a scheduling nightmare. I would prefer more separation of routes as the way to go.

[BJSm]

The half-thickness lines are harder to see, especially when there are 6 colors on one line.

 

Are you looking at the full-size image? I'm colorblind, and I don't have any trouble with it. The smaller version the forum creates is sometimes a problem, though.

 

Your map is still a wet dream, but if there's one thing I don't like about your map, it's the extensive amount of interlacing of trains. Might seem like a good idea from a rider's point of view (more one-seat rides), but it would result in a scheduling nightmare. I would prefer more separation of routes as the way to go.

 

I agree, but in a lot of areas I just don't see alternatives. I like your proposals for more line separation a lot, actually.

 

Also, in a few places the lines are drawn together but would actually be separate, especially for locals and expresses (e.g., the F and Y on the southern Culver Line, or the A/H/V and J/W/Z on the new Broadway/Bushwick Trunk Line, which is six-tracked [A and H on one express route, W and Z on another, V and J on a local route]). The L/O/X and N/W around Flushing would probably also be separate, maybe one beneath the other, and each four-tracked.

 

If you have ideas for places where lines running together could be reduced, though, please tell me.

[Rell]

Also, didn't extend the to Eastchester because there isn't much demand for that, and the routing up to Edenwald is already a little tenuous (is it really necessary past Gun Hill Rd?).

 

 

Well in that case, you could either cut it back to Gun Hill (now that I think about it, it wouldn't be too necessary after that), but if you wanted it a little farther, you could just go straight down to Burke Av or Eastchester Rd.

Just a thought

[NX Express]

Are you looking at the full-size image?

Yes, and that is the reason I am concerned.

 

PS IMO the in Brooklyn is unnecessary, the should not go to the Rockaways, the should not go to Manhattan Beach, you should cut the (Y) back, and the G and P should be merged without the Manhattan branch. Crosstown lines need to exist too. PS the blue M is not necessary anywhere except the Bronx.

[Roadcruiser1]

Or a better idea would be to create a third crosstown subway line that won't go to Manhattan and bypasses Borden Avenue, and continue up to the Bronx.

 

I thought the was supposed to replace the small Rockaway Park unless you have something better in mind.

 

The only other option to send the would be to Sheepshead Bay, and that would please the NIMBY's on Manhattan Beach.

 

If the Y is going to be cut back shouldn't the replace it.

 

I do agree that the isn't really needed in Brooklyn. It would endanger the Skip Stop (J)/(Z) pattern. Instead the should be sent to Dyker Heights which would be cheaper.

 

Also since you killed the crosstown Brooklyn line which is desperately needed why don't you just bring the Triboro RX idea onto your map.

[BJSm]

Yes, and that is the reason I am concerned.

 

PS IMO the in Brooklyn is unnecessary, the should not go to the Rockaways, the should not go to Manhattan Beach, you should cut the (Y) back, and the G and P should be merged without the Manhattan branch. Crosstown lines need to exist too. PS the blue M is not necessary anywhere except the Bronx.

 

Service to Dyker Heights is, IMO, quite important. That area is underserved. (I don't really care what the current locals want for this map but rather what urbanism wants.)

 

The goes to the Rockaways so that there can be two expresses on the Fulton Line going elsewhere. This because of the general insistence, probably right, that the line to JFK should be express.

 

The to Manhattan Beach, see the above on Dyker Heights.

 

Why (and where?) should the Y be cut back? You need to provide reasons for cutting back a service that seems pretty important to me.

 

Crosstown lines are totally useless. There is no need for them. The at the moment demonstrates this very clearly, with its total lack of ridership except from people who have no other options (those who live near it in Bed-Stuy, Greenpoint, etc.). It would have five times or more the ridership on this map than it has currently. The tiny number of people traveling from Queens to Brooklyn or the reverse I think can endure the horrific experience of having to change trains.

 

The M is important in Bed-Stuy and Clinton Hill as direct service to Lower Manhattan as well (where the does not go). Also, it runs all the time, while the is weekdays only (replaced by some trains in the Bronx on weekends/late nights), and the is always express in Brooklyn/Queens.*

 

*I know this all isn't obvious from the map. I've been working, slowly, on a service guide as well.

[BJSm]

So, I've made more modifications to the map, this time many of them cutbacks on parts of the map that seemed excessive/redundant (although there are a couple of new things as well). In particular, the Bedford/Franklin Ave Line was reduced back to just the Franklin Ave Shuttle, and the Mid-Queens Line was eliminated.

 

Comments and suggestions always welcome.

 

 

Edit: Hmm, for some reason Imageshack is no longer allowing a full-sized upload. Any suggestions for an alternative image hosting site that would?

[Roadcruiser1]

Flickr.

[BJSm]

Unfortunately, Flickr resizes the image, too, although to a somewhat larger size.

[NX Express]

I don't really care what the current locals want for this map but rather what urbanism wants.

Manhattan Beachers are a little like Country Club-ers; they don't want any riff-raff if avoidable. The subway would give them what they don't need, let alone want.

 

Dyker Heights, seems fine to me the way it is right now. There isn't really a necessity for a new subway now.

 

Also, the transit system is "of the people, for the people, and by the people". I don't think that urbanism is more important than people.:tdown:

[Alargule]

One question I have: you extend the as an east-west line through the Bronx. This will probably result in more riders and thus necessitate shorter headways. Do you think the current infrastructure in Manhattan - especially the stretch along CPW - will be sufficient to cope with the increase in demand?

[BJSm]

One question I have: you extend the as an east-west line through the Bronx. This will probably result in more riders and thus necessitate shorter headways. Do you think the current infrastructure in Manhattan - especially the stretch along CPW - will be sufficient to cope with the increase in demand?

 

The in the Bronx is primarily a connector rather than a service to Midtown. In almost all situations it would be faster to take one of the other Bronx lines if you were headed to Midtown. The purpose of the in the Bronx, and how I think it would be used, is for riders traveling relatively short distances from the East Bronx to the West Bronx or from the Bronx to Inwood or Washington Heights (or the reverse). There are a lot of reasons people make those trips, not least because the Dominican and Puerto Rican communities span the whole area, and bus routes do not really provide sufficient service for it as bridges between Manhattan and the Bronx are few and in general highly trafficked.

 

As a result, I don't anticipate there being many riders on the who got on in the Bronx and stay on after 145th St. A few, certainly, but the is not the most crowded line in the system in northern Manhattan or on CPW. As a result, I don't think there would be any need for shorter headways.

 

The might be more concerning, as I do have it running express with the and on CPW. But the CPW express route does have at least a little bit of room for more trains, and the would be fairly infrequent, even at rush hour, as it is mostly redundant with other services everywhere except in Riverdale (only providing an alternative route rather than being the only train at a given station). It might be that the addition of the (at least on CPW) is infeasible nonetheless.

[Eric]

The Bronx connector could be a shuttle from Inwood instead of part of the full line. Perhaps as a .

 

Just an idea.