New Fantasy Map

[BJSm]

This isn't dead; I have some updates, changes and redesigns coming up on a new version that I will post soon. It includes the very last alphabetical line, the X, which means every letter and digit has a route (except 0, which is obviously too easily confused with O).

[BJSm]

And the promised update...

 

[Gorgor]

Wow, that map is crazy! (in a good way )

 

It is interesting how some lines, such as the K, are almost complete loops.

 

Very nice work!

[BJSm]

Wow, that map is crazy! (in a good way )

 

It is interesting how some lines, such as the K, are almost complete loops.

 

Very nice work!

 

Haha, yeah, it is a little crazy. Anyway, the near-loops are fine because no one takes a line from one end all the way to the other. Compare the K to the Red Line on the DC Metro. (Also, the right now is almost a complete loop.)

 

I don't have any more plans for significant changes, although I will continue tweaking here and there and also trying to neaten up the map as much as possible.

[GojiMet86]

Looks like a Tokyo or Berlin-esque type of map.

[BJSm]

Looks like a Tokyo or Berlin-esque type of map.

 

Well, my main goal was to improve service across the entire city. Most designs focus on Manhattan and ignore the areas of Brooklyn and Queens (and to a lesser extent the Bronx) that severely lack for service.

 

The map does patch up some areas of poor service in Manhattan: The SAS is complete, of course, and the LES, Chelsea/Hell's Kitchen and 125th St corridor all got some love. But my main goal was to give commuters in the outer boroughs more and faster transit options, and thereby to encourage development of those areas. Also, cross-Brooklyn, cross-Bronx and cross-Queens lines encourage integration of those boroughs and development of their own cores (particularly the Bronx along Fordham Rd and Queens in Jamaica Center and Flushing as well as Jackson Heights to a lesser extent).

[BJSm]

Some aspects of the map were redone. In particular, I decided that the SI lines were doing nothing but clogging up other routes; the SIRR might be extended to meet the and at 59th St, but it shouldn't be combined with the rest of the system. I changed some things around to account for the loss of the P and I.

 

Also, the and the switched southern termini.

 

[NX Express]

Actually, SI needs a real subway, not a three-to-four seat ride to Midtown. (bus-SIR-ferry-subway). The should go to SI, along with the and .

[BJSm]

Actually, SI needs a real subway, not a three-to-four seat ride to Midtown. (bus-SIR-ferry-subway). The should go to SI, along with the and .

 

I'm not giving them a four-seat ride. I'm giving them a two-seat ride (three-seat if they want somewhere not on the ). I just didn't include the SIRR extension to 59th St on the map (as well as other possible SIRR extensions such as the North Shore Branch), as the SIRR is not a part of the subway system. The cost of a tunnel to SI from Manhattan--just one tunnel--would be phenomenal. Better to add an extra seat to the ride and use the much shorter connection to 59th St in Brooklyn to connect to the overall subway system at a useful express stop.

[NX Express]

I'm not giving them a four-seat ride. I'm giving them a two-seat ride (three-seat if they want somewhere not on the ). I just didn't include the SIRR extension to 59th St on the map (as well as other possible SIRR extensions such as the North Shore Branch), as the SIRR is not a part of the subway system. The cost of a tunnel to SI from Manhattan--just one tunnel--would be phenomenal. Better to add an extra seat to the ride and use the much shorter connection to 59th St in Brooklyn to connect to the overall subway system at a useful express stop.

 

It's useful for those needing to get to Brooklyn, but Manhattan commuters would probably either use the ferry or overcrowd the , both of which defeat the point of the tunnel to Brooklyn. Also, isn't this a fantasy map, where costs don't matter?

[BJSm]

It's useful for those needing to get to Brooklyn, but Manhattan commuters would probably either use the ferry or overcrowd the , both of which defeat the point of the tunnel to Brooklyn. Also, isn't this a fantasy map, where costs don't matter?

 

I would run the Sea Beach Express during rush hours, which would be nearly empty upon arrival at 59th St and help prevent overcrowding.

 

You're right that a super-express along the Gowanus Expressway might be worthwhile to fix that problem more completely, though. I'll consider it.

 

Cost is still an issue because I don't want to create lines that are downright wastes of money. Otherwise, why not run lines under every significant road in the city?

[E Local]

What about the triboro RX? but renamed (I)

[BJSm]

What about the triboro RX? but renamed (I)

 

All the important aspects of Triboro RX are already there. The only really good things about it are the cross-Brooklyn connection (achieved by the Kings Highway Line), service to Maspeth and other environs in central Queens (achieved with direct Manhattan service by the K, A/H/M and X/Y), and an easier connection to uptown and the Bronx from Queens (achieved by the extended ). It would be totally redundant and have no ridership on this map.

[E Local]

All the important aspects of Triboro RX are already there. The only really good things about it are the cross-Brooklyn connection (achieved by the Kings Highway Line), service to Maspeth and other environs in central Queens (achieved with direct Manhattan service by the K, A/H/M and X/Y), and an easier connection to uptown and the Bronx from Queens (achieved by the extended ). It would be totally redundant and have no ridership on this map.

 

Well that's true if the areas that the triboro RX would go through are served by other lines.

[BJSm]

One more update, with a few changes inspired by http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22986. Also, screw NIMBYs.

 

[NX Express]

One more update, with a few changes inspired by http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22986. Also, screw NIMBYs.

 

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Sigh...Manhattan Beach residents DO NOT WANT A SUBWAY!!

 

EDIT: I just realized you don't care about neighborhood opposition.

[Tokkemon]

Yeah! Screw NIMBYs!

[BJSm]

Bump. Some proposals that I haven't had an opportunity to put on the map yet...

 

#1. Recreate the Myrtle Ave Line between Downtown Brooklyn and Broadway/Myrtle, then run it with the Utica Ave Line to Remsen Ave and down Remsen Ave to Canarsie. This has a few advantages: eliminating the on Rockaway Pkwy, which clogs up the Eastern Pkwy Line local tracks, and giving more service to northern Bed-Stuy, Clinton Hill and Fort Greene. However, I don't have anywhere to send it in Manhattan, which has me a bit stumped. Ideas?

 

#2. Creating a 34th St Line, combining the G and K. (The K would be rerouted along the LIE through LIC rather than through Greenpoint.) I know sending the G to Manhattan is controversial, but bear with me.

 

Parts of this proposal:

 

A. The G is split in two. The northern part of the G, currently in Astoria and Harlem (but cut from Harlem in my proposal) becomes the P. It runs into the Bronx along the Metro North tracks through Port Morris, then up Prospect Ave to Boston Rd, up Boston Rd to Laconia Ave and up Laconia to 233rd/Edenwald (replacing the 8, which would run with the 2 as previously).

 

B. A new station is built at Borden/Jackson (transfer to the 7 at Vernon/Jackson) where the G, K and P come together. Then they run under 34th St, stopping at 3rd/34th (transfer to 2nd Ave and Lex Ave Lines), Herald Sq (transfer to Broadway and 6th Ave Lines), Penn Station (transfer to 7th Ave and 8th Ave Lines) and 11th/34th (transfer to 10th Ave and 11th Ave Lines), where it terminates. I know this would be difficult to construct due to the Penn Station tracks running in the area, but I think it could be built. Maybe the tracks could run under 35th St but the stations open on 34th St to avoid the Penn Station tracks, which I think run under 33rd St.

 

#3. With the 34th St Line project, the N has no reason to run into the Bronx. As such, it is cut back to Bayside, while the A is rerouted from Co-op City to run to Throgs Neck on the current N routing.

 

Comments? Suggestions on where to connect the Myrtle Ave Line?

[E Local]

actually I like the Idea of a 34 street line, I also did the same thing with the same exists too, but I did different transfers & on my updated map, the line splits on 5th avenue to make a 5th avenue line heading to 125 street.

[BJSm]

Yeah, the transfers are not fixed. I don't see a reason to add new north-south trunk lines in Manhattan, though, other than the 2nd Ave, 10th Ave and 11th Ave Lines already on the map. That does mean that I continue to struggle with where to send the Myrtle/Utica/Remsen train, though.

 

Edit: Oh, just thought of a solution. What if I sent the X down the current B line, rerouted the B back to the Brighton Express, and sent the T on the Myrtle/Utica/Remsen Line? Seems workable to me. The X has enough transfers to express trains that the loss of the direct express to Manhattan for Dyker Heights is not so important.

[Roadcruiser1]

It might be a bit late but the should be cut back. It's way too long even for express service. My idea for a 34th St service is it should start out at 2nd Avenue-14th St and run along with the till it reaches 34th St where it branches off and run alongside 34th St and run into Queens using Cemetery Road. It's called that way because the avenue runs by several cemeteries along it's way. Though this line is useful because it can connect to the (K)'s 43rd St, and the , , and Middle Village-Metropolitan Avenue station. From there it would turn north and gain transfers at Furmanville Avenue, 67th Av, College Point Boulevard, and 149th St-Parson's Boulevard. It would join the , and north of 154th St and run on up to the Bronx using the former (N)'s route.

[BJSm]

It might be a bit late but the should be cut back. It's way too long even for express service. My idea for a 34th St service is it should start out at 2nd Avenue-14th St and run along with the till it reaches 34th St where it branches off and run alongside 34th St and run into Queens using Cemetery Road. It's called that way because the avenue runs by several cemeteries along it's way. Though this line is useful because it can connect to the (K)'s 43rd St, and the , , and Middle Village-Metropolitan Avenue station. From there it would turn north and gain transfers at Furmanville Avenue, 67th Av, College Point Boulevard, and 149th St-Parson's Boulevard. It would join the , and north of 154th St and run on up to the Bronx using the former (N)'s route.

 

Well, my new plan cuts the back to Queens, no longer running to the Bronx, and replaces its Bronx section with an extension of the . Then I have Queens/Bronx service over Randalls/Wards Island. I think that's going to be a lot more reasonable.

 

Anyway, I don't have much free time right now, but I will soon and hope to finish a new version of the map by 2011.

[BJSm]

So, I ended up having some free time... Here's an updated version of the map. Lots of changes, including the splitting of the G, the reorganization of the K into the 8, the recreation of the Myrtle Ave Line between Broadway and Downtown Brooklyn, and extension of the A to cover the silly N extension into the Bronx. Also, I cut out the 7 extension down the west side. In an ideal world, the 7/8 and the G/P would go on to Hoboken, Jersey City, Secaucus, etc.

 

Also debated cutting the 9 to Canarsie and having it terminate with the 1 at South Ferry, but decided against it for now. The local IRT tracks in Brooklyn are crowded, though.

 

[Alargule]

Nice map. I'm a bit lazy, so just wondering: How about the extra capacity demand on the Canarsie line? I see you incorporated three branches into it. Does it get four-tracked in Manhattan?

[BJSm]

Nice map. I'm a bit lazy, so just wondering: How about the extra capacity demand on the Canarsie line? I see you incorporated three branches into it. Does it get four-tracked in Manhattan?

 

Yeah, it's four-tracked between Montrose Ave in Brooklyn and 35 Ave up in Queens. The L is express while the O and X are local. The express stops only at Montrose Av, Bedford Av, Union Square, 10th Ave/42nd St, Broadway/72nd St, 2 Av/72nd St, 21st St-Ravenswood (which I just noticed I didn't label), Junction Blvd, 126th St-Mets, Main St/Northern Blvd and 35th Av in the express run.

 

I realize that would require a lot of work in Williamsburg and along 14th St, but I think it's worthwhile for better service. Canarsie has serious problems even now.