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New Fantasy Map


BJSm

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Can we get New route summaries? Also maybe you should just start posting PDF files for download. Also are any of the proposed line going to be at grade suface lines? and what do we do about yards for these lines? you can go on about this being a fantasy map but really matters is how to make it a reality. lol

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As a result, I don't anticipate there being many riders on the (A) who got on in the Bronx and stay on after 145th St. A few, certainly, but the (A) is not the most crowded line in the system in northern Manhattan or on CPW. As a result, I don't think there would be any need for shorter headways.

 

Hmm...I'm not so sure. The east-west extension of the (A) through the Bronx would result in different traveling patterns as compared to current traveling patterns, for riders coming from the Bronx with destinations close to Eighth Avenue Line stops. I believe the (A) would see more than just 'a few' more riders staying on the train south of 145 St.

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Hmm...I'm not so sure. The east-west extension of the (A) through the Bronx would result in different traveling patterns as compared to current traveling patterns, for riders coming from the Bronx with destinations close to Eighth Avenue Line stops. I believe the (A) would see more than just 'a few' more riders staying on the train south of 145 St.

 

They could transfer to the (:((D) for service to CPW and then transfer to the (A). It's faster than your circuitous route.

Also, the crews will hate it.

 

I also suggest merging the two stops on the (A) with transfers to the (B)(D) and (3)(4).

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I also suggest merging the two stops on the (A) with transfers to the (:P(D) and (3)(4).

 

Seems like a good idea.

 

Can we get New route summaries? Also maybe you should just start posting PDF files for download. Also are any of the proposed line going to be at grade suface lines? and what do we do about yards for these lines? you can go on about this being a fantasy map but really matters is how to make it a reality. lol

 

I have the route summaries all designed in my head. It takes forever to put them down in text, so I've been putting it off.

 

A few lines are at-grade in parts. The (Z) in SE Queens runs along an LIRR right-of-way, for example. The P also uses a current rail right-of-way and would run on the surface in Astoria and the South Bronx. The 8 might run on the surface along the LIE, too, although it might have to go underground to fit a full three tracks in. I'm also replacing a lot of elevated lines with underground ones, especially along the Jamaica Line (which would now run under Atlantic Ave after Rockaway Blvd) but also tearing down the Liberty Ave El and replacing it with the Linden Blvd Line, and tearing down the Myrtle Ave El and replacing it with the Myrtle/Gates Ave Line.

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First things first, I'd like to say to BJSm that this is an awesome map and that you've definitely put a ton of thought into this...

 

now having said that I have some ideas, feel free to rebut them if need be...

 

1) Creation of a new line ( lets call it X for now) That would begin at 11av & 34st. and follow the (G) till Bedford Av. After Bedford Av the line would turn south under Franklin Av. and connect to the Franklin Av (S) ROW (the Current Franklin Av. station would gave to be rebuilt underground). Tunneling will be short (12-13 blocks with the portal being where the former Dean St. station was) with the provision for a station (Gates Av.) built in. The X will follow the Franklin Av. (S) line till Prospect Park station (a 2nd track would have to be re-added north of Botanical Garden and the S-curve north of Prospect Park would have to be seriously re-worked) where it would immediately join the Brighton Line as a local and terminate at Brighton Beach.

 

Pros: Gives Coney Island and Sheepshead Bay residents access to North Brooklyn and LIC and gives them connections to all east-west Brooklyn trunk routs, and a connection to the Myrtle Av. M line (at Myrtle av.) which they didn't have before. Also provides a north-south Brooklyn route that is closer to Manhattan, therefore easier to access.

 

Cons: Conversion of the entire Franklin Av. Line (and stations) to accommodate full-length (600 ft.) IND trains (shouldn't be too much of a problem, as the stations were once full-length); Conversion of Park Place station to a 2-track station; Conversion and/or elimination of S-bend in the portal north of Prospect Park; the NIMBY's; Access to Queens neligible at best

 

2) Cutting back the (5) to Voorhies Av.-Sheepshead Bay. Honestly...the 5 going to Brighton Beach seems kind of redundant as most residents probably wouldn't take it, seeing as the stops it serves would probably be better served by adding buses, plus the (:) would be faster to Manhattan

 

3) Extension of either the O or K to Throgs Neck.

 

4) Split the northern terminus of the (A) by sending some Rush Hour and Midday trains to Co-op City. It would give Co-op City residents access to the rest of the Bronx without having to transfer

 

5)Cut the (;) back to Bedford Park Blvd and extend the (T) to 233rd-Edenwald

 

well..thats it for now

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In terms of the (3) on Jerome Avenue, it might make sense to run that to Woodlawn like the (2)/(5) does now where the (2) goes to Wakefield and the (5) stops at Nereid Av.

 

Well, with the extension to Woodlawn Heights in particular, I think it has to be the (4) rather than the (3) reaching the northern end. Remember, Nereid Ave and Wakefield are very close to each other, so walking to Nereid Ave to get the express is that not weird, and I think there is a major bus hub there for buses from Westchester. Not so for the Woodlawn and Woodlawn Heights stops. Why do you think it would be better the other way around?

 

(Also working on a few changes to the map. I am finally giving up on the Manhattan Beach extension of the (5), for what it's worth.)

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Well, with the extension to Woodlawn Heights in particular, I think it has to be the (4) rather than the (3) reaching the northern end. Remember, Nereid Ave and Wakefield are very close to each other, so walking to Nereid Ave to get the express is that not weird, and I think there is a major bus hub there for buses from Westchester. Not so for the Woodlawn and Woodlawn Heights stops. Why do you think it would be better the other way around?

 

(Also working on a few changes to the map. I am finally giving up on the Manhattan Beach extension of the (5), for what it's worth.)

 

I didn't mean to flip the (3) and (4), I meant to extend the (3) to Woodlawn so that (3) riders can make the bus connections to the (Bx16), (Bx34), BxM4, and the Bee-Line 4 and 20/21.

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Ah, okay. That works.

 

Yeah. The organization of it would be weird because Woodlawn only has two tracks... you could extend it to Woodlawn Heights if you wanted.

 

I really think the (V) to the Rockaways is just too much, and even though the ridership out there is low, a shuttle would still better serve the area.

 

Also, a service guide would really be great; I'm looking over this and just wishing I could understand it better.

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I really think the (V) to the Rockaways is just too much, and even though the ridership out there is low, a shuttle would still better serve the area.

 

I would have half of the (V)s short-turn at Kings Plaza. The (V) is a pretty long line, but it is express along the Utica Ave route (with only a few stops), so it's not as painfully long as it looks.

 

Also, a service guide would really be great; I'm looking over this and just wishing I could understand it better.

 

Sort of waiting for when I get everything finished, especially as I have some odd service patterns (along the lower Culver Line, for example). But I will post one soon.

 

 

Anyway, will have a new map posted this evening with a few of the suggested changes (and the elimination of the (H), which I finally decided wasn't worth it).

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And, the promised update. Yes, that's a split end for the (G) in Brooklyn. Really, the Franklin Ave Shuttle ought to be eliminated if it isn't going to be combined with a line that actually goes somewhere, so I did just that.

 

nycsubwaynosi.png

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Outline of service, taking into account the removal of the (G) branch and the M to Broadway/125th St.

 

 

(1)

Broadway/7th Ave Local

Mosholu Ave to South Ferry, all times

 

(2)

Broadway/7th Ave Express

White Plains Rd Local

Nostrand Ave Local

Wakefield to Kings Hwy, all times; late nights extended to Voorhies Ave

Late nights local

 

(3)

Broadway-7th Ave Express

Jerome Ave Local

Eastern Pkwy Local

Woodlawn to New Lots Ave, all times except late nights

Late nights runs from Woodlawn to 34th St via local

 

(4)

Lexington Ave Express

Jerome Ave Express

Eastern Pkwy Express

Woodlawn Heights to Howard Beach, all times

Late nights local

 

(5)

Lexington Ave Express

Dyre Local (some trains express at rush hour)

Nostrand Ave Express

Eastchester to Sheepshead Bay, all times except late nights

Late nights runs from Eastchester to 180th St

Rush hours some trains start at Nereid Ave, run express on White Plains Rd

 

(6)

Lexington Ave Local

Pelham Local (some trains express at rush hour)

Pelham Bay Park to Brooklyn Bridge, all times

 

(7)

42nd St Local

Flushing Local (some trains express at rush hour)

Little Neck to 23rd St, all times

 

(8)

42nd St Local

Long Island Local (some trains express at rush hour)

Oakland Gardens to 23rd St, all times

 

(A)

8th Ave Express

Fordham Local

Union Turnpike Express

Throgs Neck to Glen Oaks, all times

Late nights local

 

(C)

8th Ave Local

Fulton Local

Far Rockaway Local (some trains)

Washington Heights to Far Rockaway, all times except late nights

Late nights runs from Far Rockaway to Cross Bay Blvd

All times except late nights, some trains on Fulton Line terminate at Cross Bay Blvd

 

(E)

8th Ave Local

Queens Blvd Express

Fulton Express

224th St to JFK Airport, all times

Late nights local on the Fulton Line

 

 

(;)

6th Ave Express

CPW Local

Grand Concourse Local

Brighton Express

Edenwald to Brighton Beach, weekdays

Late nights and weekends, no service

 

(D)

6th Ave Express

CPW Express

Grand Concourse Express

4th Ave/West End Express

Edenwald to Coney Island, all times

Late nights local on Grand Concourse

 

(F)

6th Ave Local

Queens Blvd Express

Culver Local

Florham Park to Kings Hwy, all times

Late nights local

Late nights and weekends terminates at Church Av

 

(V)

6th Ave Local

Queens Blvd Local

Utica Ave Express

Jamaica to Far Rockaway, all times except late nights

Late nights runs from Herald Square to Far Rockaway via local

 

 

(G)

34th St Local

Culver Local

11th Ave to Church Ave, all times

 

H

34th St Local

Randalls Island Local

Co-op City to 11th Ave, all times

 

 

(J)

Nassau St Local

Broadway/Atlantic Ave Local

Broad St to Sutphin Blvd, all times

Late nights and weekends extended to Rosedale via local

Late nights, some trains to Springfield Gardens via Rockaway Blvd Local

 

(Z)

Nassau St Local

Broadway/Atlantic Ave Express

Broad St to Rosedale, weekdays

Late nights and weekends, no service

 

 

K

10th Ave Local

Northern Blvd Local

Utica Ave Local

35th Ave to Kings Plaza, all times except late nights

Late nights, no service (Flushing Ave stop is closed late nights; alternatively, I might get rid of that stop entirely as it's a little redundant.)

 

(L)

10th Ave Express

Northern Blvd Express

Canarsie Express

College Point to Canarsie, all times

Late nights via local

 

O

10th Ave Local

Northern Blvd Local

Canarsie/Atlantic Ave/Rockaway Blvd Local

35th Ave to Springfield Gardens, all times except late nights

Late nights, no service (Rockaway Blvd Local served by (J))

 

 

M

2nd Ave Local

125th St Local

Union Turnpike Local

Broadway/125th St to Bell Blvd, all times except late nights

Late nights, no service

 

(T)

2nd Ave Express

3rd Ave Local

Fulton Express via Atlantic Ave Bypass

Gun Hill Rd to Cambria Heights, all times

Late nights via local

 

Y

2nd Ave Express

Throgs Neck Local

Culver Express via Clinton St Bypass

Throgs Neck to Coney Island, all times

Late nights via local

 

 

(N)

Broadway Express

Bayside/Astoria Express

4th Ave/Sea Beach Express

Bayside to Coney Island, all times

Late nights local

 

(Q)

Broadway Express

2nd Ave Local

Brighton Local

Broadway/125th St to Coney Island, all times

 

(R)

Broadway Local

Queens Blvd Local

4th Ave/Bay Ridge Local

Farmers Blvd to Bay Ridge, all times except late nights

Late nights runs from Bay Ridge to 59th St (Brooklyn)

 

(W)

Broadway Local

Bayside/Astoria Local

4th Ave/West End Local

154th St to Bay Pkwy, all times except late nights

Late nights, no service

 

 

 

Note on the Culver Line

Okay, so this is the most complicated design on the map.

 

The (F) and (G) meet up on the Culver Local as usual at Bergen St. At Smith-9th St, the Y joins the Culver Express (although it does not stop at Smith-9th as the express does not). The Y then runs express with the F & G local until Church Ave. At Church Ave, the G terminates. The Y continues express in the peak direction only while switching to local on the off-peak direction (and is local both directions late nights and weekends). Late nights and weekends, the F terminates at Church Ave with the G. On the weekdays, the F continues local in both directions to Kings Hwy. At Kings Hwy, the F terminates and the Y continues local in both directions to Coney Island.

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  • 4 months later...

Some ideas:

 

1: The (W) is currently useless. Instead of making it go with the (D), (I forget the name of that line) why not extend it into SI along the North Shore Branch, and terminate it at Newark Terminal? Also, a local that long is not gonna work. Make the (Q) local in Manhattan to make the (W) a faster express.

 

2: Where is the rockaway (S)? Either give the (C) split terminals, or bring it back. There are people near 105th st. who would like service to Broad Channel without transfering.

 

3: Switch the roles of the (A) and (E) in brooklyn, just nostalgia talking. Plus people in lefferts don't want a local, similar to Astoria.

 

4:Is it possible to extend the (4) past the New Lots Yard?

 

5: Please rename the (O). Not all the consonants have been used yet, so why go into vowels already? Plus, O looks like 0, which is the formal designation for the 42 st Shuttle.

 

6: (J) doesn't stop at Jamaica Center, which it should. Or is it on an entirely different line now, thus bypassing this station? Also, bring back the skip-stop.

 

7 Too many lines stopping at Atlantic Ave. Let me count: (2), (3), (4), (5), (:P, (D), (N), (Q), (R), (T), and I think the (A) might stop there as well, but I'm not sure. More line variation is needed, or make some of those trains bypass Atlantic; similar to 59th St.-Columbus Circle, where the (A)(:P©(D) stop was express, but the 7th Ave lines ran local.

 

8: Where is the labeling for Bowling Green on the Lex Av Line?

 

9: Is an (H) stop on Randalls Island really needed? Especially if the people there want manhattan? Make the (M) diverge there instead or as well.

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Some ideas:

 

1: The (W) is currently useless. Instead of making it go with the (D), (I forget the name of that line) why not extend it into SI along the North Shore Branch, and terminate it at Newark Terminal? Also, a local that long is not gonna work. Make the (Q) local in Manhattan to make the (W) a faster express.

 

2: Where is the rockaway (S)? Either give the (C) split terminals, or bring it back. There are people near 105th st. who would like service to Broad Channel without transfering.

 

3: Switch the roles of the (A) and (E) in brooklyn, just nostalgia talking. Plus people in lefferts don't want a local, similar to Astoria.

 

4:Is it possible to extend the (4) past the New Lots Yard?

 

5: Please rename the (O). Not all the consonants have been used yet, so why go into vowels already? Plus, O looks like 0, which is the formal designation for the 42 st Shuttle.

 

6: (J) doesn't stop at Jamaica Center, which it should. Or is it on an entirely different line now, thus bypassing this station? Also, bring back the skip-stop.

 

7 Too many lines stopping at Atlantic Ave. Let me count: (2), (3), (4), (5), (:P, (D), (N), (Q), (R), (T), and I think the (A) might stop there as well, but I'm not sure. More line variation is needed, or make some of those trains bypass Atlantic; similar to 59th St.-Columbus Circle, where the (A)(:P©(D) stop was express, but the 7th Ave lines ran local.

 

8: Where is the labeling for Bowling Green on the Lex Av Line?

 

9: Is an (H) stop on Randalls Island really needed? Especially if the people there want manhattan? Make the (M) diverge there instead or as well.

 

Um, I don't think you understand. Its a fantasy map.

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Um, I don't think you understand. Its a fantasy map.

 

Sorry if I sound overbearing, but I take fantasy maps very seriously. I like there to be some semblence of realism to them, not just random lines going everywhere.

 

Did any of my ideas pass the scrutiny test? :P

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I like your map. I have been working on my own fantasy map for the past several years and if I can find the time to finish it, I will post it here first. My basic premise is that I use a start date of July 1, 1944 and play revisonist history from there on. Some of the items that are unique to my map are: 1- No 63 Street Subway Line-It isn't needed! 2- A four track Line via the Long Island Expressway. Local trains make all stops to the city line. Express trains, as part of the LIRR stop only At a station flanking the LIRR tracks that connects to the old Rockaway LIRR train for Airport access and at the city line. The LIRR tracks then continue on the Long Island Expressway Median to Nichols Road. 3- From a Branch of The Second Ave Subway (4 tracks) at South Ferry a tunnel UNDER THE NARROWS to St George, then via Victory Blvd all the way to Travis, with a branch headed northward to Richmond Terrace. 4- The Merging of Path into the subway system with free transfers between lines and extensions to both tube lines on both sides of the Hudson. There is so much more that I will let my map do the talking.

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I like your map. I have been working on my own fantasy map for the past several years and if I can find the time to finish it, I will post it here first. My basic premise is that I use a start date of July 1, 1944 and play revisonist history from there on. Some of the items that are unique to my map are: 1- No 63 Street Subway Line-It isn't needed! 2- A four track Line via the Long Island Expressway. Local trains make all stops to the city line. Express trains, as part of the LIRR stop only At a station flanking the LIRR tracks that connects to the old Rockaway LIRR train for Airport access and at the city line. The LIRR tracks then continue on the Long Island Expressway Median to Nichols Road. 3- From a Branch of The Second Ave Subway (4 tracks) at South Ferry a tunnel UNDER THE NARROWS to St George, then via Victory Blvd all the way to Travis, with a branch headed northward to Richmond Terrace. 4- The Merging of Path into the subway system with free transfers between lines and extensions to both tube lines on both sides of the Hudson. There is so much more that I will let my map do the talking.

 

I would love to see your map. When will you be posting it? I love your "under the narrows" idea! When you do, maybe I can provide some ideas of my own to help. Good luck!:P

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