New Fantasy Map

[SI Subway]

I gave you that idea from my concept stop saying it's yours.

 

Wait... I got a better idea! Instead of the , a new line could be created from 57th street in Manhattan to Cranford in SI, called the . It would be a local in Manhattan and Brooklyn, and would travel the same route as the until 59th Street. A tunnel would be built underneath NY harbour between 59th Street and St. George Terminal, where it would proceed to go along the North Shore branch. This would be alot cheaper than to send the into NJ, and it wouldn't mess up the ®'s route. Is this any better? B)

 

If you thought of it first, it was completely coincidental. I thought of it by myself. Your idea was to use light rail to go across the narrows, as well as the HBLR being extended to SI.

 

Here is my Staten Island Light Rail Plan. The plan features faster ferries, and extra light rail lines, and it also features the SIR North Shore Branch's extension to Newark Airport. The map has changed a bit in my ideas, but not much. The only changes are that the SI Mall's Orange Line will run down Richmond Avenue instead, and would run to the Eltingville Station on the SIR, and the West Shore Light Rail would run to Richmond Valley instead. The Orange Line light rail utilizes the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and would run parallel to the SIE taking road lanes, but for a good use, and would run to Bay Ridge 95th Street on the .

 

Here is your concept. Notice how you included no subway lines whatsoever.

 

(sorry for the double post before...)

[Roadcruiser1]

That's my old map, and I have had planned maps with subway service on them, but that is just my light rail concept map.

[BJSm]

Here's the promised update, using a style based on the London Tube Map. Granted, it's not finished--there are no route or stations labels right now. However, I'm happy to explain anything.

 

(There's also a somewhat inconsistent use of the transfer station symbol to indicate express stops.)

 

[TrainFanInfinity]

That's an AWESOME map you got there!

[Tokkemon]

Nice start, and I like the cleanliness of it. Personally I prefer geographically-accurate maps, but this looks real good!

 

Some quibbles:

 

The Canarsie line would definitely have to be upgraded to 4 tracks to handle all the new branches off of it. Just making sure you thought of that.

 

The Crosstown ? under 34th St would be a near engineering impossibility because of all the stuff that's under there, most importantly, the Amtrak, LIRR, and NJT tunnels that occupy almost all the space down there, not to mention the stations, along with pretty much every Manhattan trunk line AND the PATH. It would be a nightmare to get that under there when its not very useful. The 42 and 14 Crosstown lines are generally sufficient, and most certainly would be with your beefed up Canarsie line.

 

The to the South Bronx seems useless. It should go into Manhattan where people might actually work. You have it going from one major residential area to another major residential area. That doesn't help commuting.

 

While I think your Queens extensions are interesting, you left a gaping hole near Maspeth and Juniper where a line is really needed.

 

The extension of the Metropolitan Ave line to the North is kind of confusing. Where would you route it? I know that when I did my map, the roads get so convoluted around there that it was near impossible to continue the branch without bumping into something. In fact, most of your Queens extensions seem kind of odd as to their ROW. Perhaps that's just because there's no labels. Could you clarify?

 

The Nassau St bit in Lower Manhattan seems almost superfluous with the nice extension *north* to 5th Ave. I'd just shut it down entirely if you're not going to extend it into Brooklyn and make it useful. The Lex Ave trains can cover it.

 

Not sold on the Rockaway Park connection to 6th Ave. There isn't enough demand out there to justify such a connection. Also, where is that Lex Ave line crossing with the ? Is the intention for it to go to JFK airport?

[Roadcruiser1]

Not really. The shouldn't even be going to Manhattan in the first place. Whoever proposed it is pretty dumb. The is a Crosstown Line. It's designed intentionally to bring people from Brooklyn to Queens, and maybe onward to the Bronx. It isn't supposed to go anywhere near Manhattan and I hope it never will. We need more crosstown lines. It seems like our subway system favors development for Manhattan, but never for the outer boroughs. Plus recent studies show there is a demand for travel between the Bronx and Brooklyn so a direct extension to the Bronx would be extremely beneficial to the thousands of commuters that have to ride the buses to Queens everyday.

[Tokkemon]

Not really. The shouldn't even be going to Manhattan in the first place. Whoever proposed it is pretty dumb. The is a Crosstown Line. It's designed intentionally to bring people from Brooklyn to Queens, and maybe onward to the Bronx. It isn't supposed to go anywhere near Manhattan and I hope it never will. We need more crosstown lines. It seems like our subway system favors development for Manhattan, but never for the outer boroughs.

 

Well, I can't be sure, but maybe that's where most of the development is?! See all those skyscrapers? They ain't in Brooklyn or Queens.

 

Plus recent studies show there is a demand for travel between the Bronx and Brooklyn so a direct extension to the Bronx would be extremely beneficial to the thousands of commuters that have to ride the buses to Queens everyday.

 

Where?

[Roadcruiser1]

http://www.nycfuture.org/images_pdfs/pdfs/BehindtheCurb.pdf

[BJSm]

Nice start, and I like the cleanliness of it. Personally I prefer geographically-accurate maps, but this looks real good!

 

Some quibbles:

 

The Canarsie line would definitely have to be upgraded to 4 tracks to handle all the new branches off of it. Just making sure you thought of that.

 

Absolutely. The K (to Springfield Gardens) and L (to Canarsie) are express, the O (to Kings Plaza) is local.

 

The Crosstown ? under 34th St would be a near engineering impossibility because of all the stuff that's under there, most importantly, the Amtrak, LIRR, and NJT tunnels that occupy almost all the space down there, not to mention the stations, along with pretty much every Manhattan trunk line AND the PATH. It would be a nightmare to get that under there when its not very useful. The 42 and 14 Crosstown lines are generally sufficient, and most certainly would be with your beefed up Canarsie line.

 

Pretty sure 34th St itself doesn't have much under it. The LIRR and Amtrak lines go under 32nd and 33rd Sts. Might be impossible anyway, although if it were under 35th St but with exits on 34th St, that might work.

 

As for necessity, the point is to get the G and H to Manhattan more than to provide additional crosstown service, although I disagree that more crosstown service isn't helpful.

 

The to the South Bronx seems useless. It should go into Manhattan where people might actually work. You have it going from one major residential area to another major residential area. That doesn't help commuting.

 

That's the H, actually. The H goes from the Bronx to Manhattan via Queens; the G goes from Brooklyn to Manhattan via Queens (with two branches in Brooklyn). The direct Bronx to Queens connection is fairly helpful, too, since all of the existing Bronx-to-Manhattan connections go on to Brooklyn rather than Queens.

 

While I think your Queens extensions are interesting, you left a gaping hole near Maspeth and Juniper where a line is really needed.

 

The map doesn't show this very well due to the stylization; there's actually not much of a hole there. The J (local) and Z (express) go along the LIE, and it's not that far from the A and M on Metropolitan Avenue. There's more of a hole between Woodside and the LIE (around 69th St between 51st Ave and Queens Boulevard is pretty far away from any lines), but I'm sort of at a loss as to how to better cover the area. I think this map does a decent job.

 

The extension of the Metropolitan Ave line to the North is kind of confusing. Where would you route it? I know that when I did my map, the roads get so convoluted around there that it was near impossible to continue the branch without bumping into something. In fact, most of your Queens extensions seem kind of odd as to their ROW. Perhaps that's just because there's no labels. Could you clarify?

 

The A (express) and M (local) travel under Myrtle Ave to Gates Ave, then Gates Ave to Metropolitan Ave, then Metropolitan Ave to Union Tpke, then along Union Tpke until terminating at Bell Blvd (the M) or Lakeville Rd (the A). The Myrtle Ave Line is totally rebuilt underground (the M is under Myrtle Ave west of Broadway as well).

 

The Nassau St bit in Lower Manhattan seems almost superfluous with the nice extension *north* to 5th Ave. I'd just shut it down entirely if you're not going to extend it into Brooklyn and make it useful. The Lex Ave trains can cover it.

 

 

I basically agree. I was a little uncomfortable though since the transfer at Spring St/Lafayette St is only to the 6, so J/Z riders wouldn't have a connection to the Financial District. I would only run some trains down there at rush hours if it's preserved at all.

 

Not sold on the Rockaway Park connection to 6th Ave. There isn't enough demand out there to justify such a connection. Also, where is that Lex Ave line crossing with the ? Is the intention for it to go to JFK airport?

 

Yes, the 4 goes to JFK. It crosses the E (not the A, which is rerouted to the Metropolitan Ave Line) at Aqueduct/North Conduit. It then has stops at Lefferts Blvd and 130th St before turning south to JFK.

 

The V to Rockaway Park was designed to eliminate the "split ends" of the E on the existing Rockaway tracks, although it may no longer be necessary, you're right.

[BJSm]

Not really. The shouldn't even be going to Manhattan in the first place. Whoever proposed it is pretty dumb. The is a Crosstown Line. It's designed intentionally to bring people from Brooklyn to Queens, and maybe onward to the Bronx. It isn't supposed to go anywhere near Manhattan and I hope it never will. We need more crosstown lines. It seems like our subway system favors development for Manhattan, but never for the outer boroughs. Plus recent studies show there is a demand for travel between the Bronx and Brooklyn so a direct extension to the Bronx would be extremely beneficial to the thousands of commuters that have to ride the buses to Queens everyday.

 

Travel between the Bronx and Brooklyn: (. Plus, on this map, and Y. All of these (save maybe the , since it's local on CPW) would be faster than taking a local through Queens to Brooklyn. It's not any faster to get from the Bronx to Brooklyn to go through Queens than Manhattan, and it's probably actually slower because the demand certainly doesn't exist for express routes between the outer boroughs.

 

This whole argument is ridiculous. Most subway riders want to get to Manhattan. There's a reason no one rides the as it exists currently save those who are forced to because it's their only subway service.

[BJSm]

Here's a general summary of the Queens routings:

 

N/W (the Astoria/LaGuardia/Bayside Line): Extended along Ditmars Blvd to the GCP, then along the GCP past LaGuardia to Citi Field, then along Northern Blvd to Crocheron Ave, then along Crocheron Ave to 35th Ave, then along 35th Ave to terminate at Bell Blvd/Bayside. N is express, W is local; W terminates at Main St/Flushing.

 

K/L/O (the Northern Blvd/College Point Line): Along 36th Ave in Astoria to Northern Blvd, then along Northern Blvd to 154th St, then along 154th St to Clintonville St, then along Clintonville St to 14th Ave, then along 14th Ave to terminate at College Point Blvd/College Point. K/L are express, O is local; O terminates at Main St/Flushing.

 

7 (the Flushing/Little Neck Line): Extended from Flushing/Main St to Parsons Blvd, then along Parsons Blvd to 46th Ave, then along 46th Ave to 47th Ave/Hollis Ct Blvd, then along 47th Ave to Rocky Hill Rd/48th Ave, then along 48th Ave to Queensborough Community College, then cutting under/near Oakland Lake to Northern Blvd, then along Northern Blvd to Little Neck Pkwy/Little Neck. Rush hour express goes all the way to Little Neck.

 

J/Z (the Long Island Line): Runs alongside the LIE all the way to terminate at Bell Blvd/Oakland Gardens. J is local, Z is express; J terminates at Kissena Blvd/Queens College.

 

A/M (the Metropolitan Ave/Union Tpke/Glen Oaks Line): Described above.

 

F/V (the Hillside Ave/Floral Park Line): Extended along Hillside Ave to Braddock Ave, then along Braddock Ave to Jericho Tpke, then along the Jericho Tpke to terminate at Little Neck Pkwy/Floral Park. F is express; V is local. V terminates at 179th St/Jamaica.

 

E/R (the Jamaica Ave/Hollis Ave/Queens Village/Belmont Line): Extended along the LIRR tracks near Jamaica Ave to Hollis Ave, then along Hollis Ave to Springfield Blvd, then terminating at Hempstead Ave/Belmont/Queens Village. The E is express; the R is local. The R terminates at Farmers Blvd/Hollis.

 

Z (the Rosedale Line): Extended along the LIRR tracks to terminate at Francis Lewis Blvd/Rosedale. (J is local, terminates at Sutphin Blvd.)

 

Will summarize the last few later, have to go.