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MTA Bus Operations: Deliveries, Moves & Transfers


T J Trainman
Message added by Cait Sith

This TOPIC is strictly for bus deliveries, moves & transfers.

Any discussion related to these moves should be done in the MTA Bus Operations: Fleets and Depots and Bus - Random Thoughts threads.

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Idk where people getting the idea of Grand getting artics from. The only Brooklyn depot that's definitely getting artics (not counting Flatbush) is ENY.

That idea comes from the fact that GA is gonna be reformed to be able to sustain artics. And also to add to it, the Super SBS line that is going to come to Brooklyn has been speculated to be artic and that it'll come out of Grand.

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It makes more sense to send XD60's to depots like Stengel, East New York, and Flatbush. It streamlines the fleet and it's much more efficient for maintenance and training.

 

Sending existing LFSA's from Queens and Brooklyn to the Bronx and Manhattan along with the new ones coming in would lower maintenance costs, and streamline things logistically.

 

Since the three depots listed above have significant XD40 fleets, future artics for the time being should naturally be XD60's. The Bronx has a large number of Nova 40's and 60's. So sending 4700's to Brooklyn and or Queens would be the smart move.

I like this method of reasoning and it is a good one.

Logistically, this could work with 30 XD60's to Queens. Split the other 60 buses to FB/ENY. (Current fleet 4710-4799).

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Idk where people getting the idea of Grand getting artics from. The only Brooklyn depot that's definitely getting artics (not counting Flatbush) is ENY.

  

 

That was only on the table if the B46+ went artic. But it's not any time soon. It will however go artic when the new crosstown SBS goes online. So it's inevitable and definitely not a rumor. That. Wing said, if MTA decides to implement the route next year, I could definitely see Grand getting the last of this XD60 order.

 

With all this specultion where these new artics will go, and further speculation about them going to Grand and ENY, how could that happen with this order when we have a load of D60 HF Galaxies to be replaced first since their useful life is pretty much expired?

I didn't hear anything about new ones going to EN or Grand out of this batch. I was told they were trying to decide where to transfer the 4700's. However, nothing is assigned outside of Stengel. And only the D60HF's below 5540 will be retired. The rest (5600 and 5700's) will be here through 2017 and the last possibly 2018 now.

 

With that being said, MTA is only retiring about 50 of them right now and we have 231 artics coming in. This is why MTA flipped the fleet numbers around from Nova and NF. Originally they planned to retire all the D60's, but after a fleet wide evaluation, they decided that they don't need to and will keep them a bit longer as they will with the RTS.

 

Then there is the possible order for 110 XN60's which would bump most if not all of West Farms diesel artics to other depots.

 

We are in this mode where we have all these buses coming in and the only buses that MUST be retired immediately are the Orion VII CNG's, followed by the 1996 RTS's which are celebrating their 20th this year.

 

This is why MTA doesn't know where the put buses. There are so many, about 419 in fact scheduled to come in 40 and 60 foot combined. On top of that the Governor wants the TA to order more hybrids. If the order for 110 CNG artics go through that's 529 new buses. About 218 buses need to be replaced now, and some artics will bump 40 footers. Without the CNG artics there are about 150 artics just out there.

 

So MTA is trying to decide where everything should go and there's still buses left after all that's done...

 

isn't the the b46sbs+ slated for artics, if so then cs and fb would require 127 xd60's?

It doesn't need artics. The line runs faster than expected with those buses lanes and 100% turnarounds at Dekalb. It's about 20-25% faster than the previous limited, and on top of that it no longer has to suffer delays of being interlined with the local.

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It doesn't need artics. The line runs faster than expected with those buses lanes and 100% turnarounds at Dekalb. It's about 20-25% faster than the previous limited, and on top of that it no longer has to suffer delays of being interlined with the local.

thats great to here that the sbs+ is doing so well. Is the ta going to fix the problems on the lcl?

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That was only on the table if the B46+ went artic. But it's not any time soon. It will however go artic when the new crosstown SBS goes online. So it's inevitable and definitely not a rumor. That. Wing said, if MTA decides to implement the route next year, I could definitely see Grand getting the last of this XD60 order.

 

 

I didn't hear anything about new ones going to EN or Grand out of this batch. I was told they were trying to decide where to transfer the 4700's. However, nothing is assigned outside of Stengel. And only the D60HF's below 5540 will be retired. The rest (5600 and 5700's) will be here through 2017 and the last possibly 2018 now.

 

With that being said, MTA is only retiring about 50 of them right now and we have 231 artics coming in. This is why MTA flipped the fleet numbers around from Nova and NF. Originally they planned to retire all the D60's, but after a fleet wide evaluation, they decided that they don't need to and will keep them a bit longer as they will with the RTS.

 

Then there is the possible order for 110 XN60's which would bump most if not all of West Farms diesel artics to other depots.

 

We are in this mode where we have all these buses coming in and the only buses that MUST be retired immediately are the Orion VII CNG's, followed by the 1996 RTS's which are celebrating their 20th this year.

 

This is why MTA doesn't know where the put buses. There are so many, about 419 in fact scheduled to come in 40 and 60 foot combined. On top of that the Governor wants the TA to order more hybrids. If the order for 110 CNG artics go through that's 529 new buses. About 218 buses need to be replaced now, and some artics will bump 40 footers. Without the CNG artics there are about 150 artics just out there.

 

So MTA is trying to decide where everything should go and there's still buses left after all that's done...

 

 

It doesn't need artics. The line runs faster than expected with those buses lanes and 100% turnarounds at Dekalb. It's about 20-25% faster than the previous limited, and on top of that it no longer has to suffer delays of being interlined with the local.

If Cuomo wants new buses, I say retire the older D60s.  Hell we're paying for them so why should we continue to ride those old beat up buses?  They may run fine, but the insides are atrocious and definitely look like buses that are 13+ years old.  Seats completely worn out (those cloth seats).  Hell one M101 bus I got on a few weeks ago, numerous seats were wet from water leaking from somewhere and people could not sit if they wanted to.  The way Tuskegee always seems to need artics, I say give them some new ones or at least send them some more of the newer artics.  From a function standpoint, you have a lot of elderly people riding the M101, M102 and M103 and those lines need new low floor buses, since it seems that the M86 gets all of the newest buses.  in short, spread the love around so that the riding public gets to enjoy some of the newer buses.

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It doesn't need artics. The line runs faster than expected with those buses lanes and 100% turnarounds at Dekalb. It's about 20-25% faster than the previous limited, and on top of that it no longer has to suffer delays of being interlined with the local.

So the MTA is fine with those 2-3 minute rush hour headways for the B46+ on top of the service being provided by the local? I find it downright hypocritical that we have artics on the majority of high ridership routes in Bronx and Manhattan, in addition to the Q10, Q44, Guy R. Brewer routes and B44 while the B46 which consistently ranks top 3 in the city for ridership is fine without artics. What kind of nonsense is that?

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So the MTA is fine with those 2-3 minute rush hour headways for the B46+ on top of the service being provided by the local? I find it downright hypocritical that we have artics on the majority of high ridership routes in Bronx and Manhattan, in addition to the Q10, Q44, Guy R. Brewer routes and B44 while the B46 which consistently ranks top 3 in the city for ridership is fine without artics. What kind of nonsense is that?

I take it you don't ride the B46 often at all...... I do and it's not nonsense. It was thought that they would be needed sooner than later but as of right now they aren't. Maybe one day they will be, but as of right now the local is what needs rush hour artics. NOT the SBS.

Edited by East New York
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I take it you don't ride the B46 often at all...... I do and it's not nonsense. It was thought that they would be needed sooner than later but as of right now they aren't. Maybe one day they will be, but as of right now the local is what needs rush hour artics. NOT the SBS.

I'm just looking at the schedule and am seeing frequencies that are really high. Routes with worse headways have seen artics come in to widen them and you don't have many people on here complaining. My position is that if artics are going to be used to cut service on high ridership routes then ALL of them should be in on it, B46 included. 

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I'm just looking at the schedule and am seeing frequencies that are really high. Routes with worse headways have seen artics come in to widen them and you don't have many people on here complaining. My position is that if artics are going to be used to cut service on high ridership routes then ALL of them should be in on it, B46 included. 

 

I can tell you first hand he is right. Many of the times during the rush hour SBS buses are empty between Kings Plaza and Ave D. Same goes for northbound SBS buses from Fulton St to the last stop. Midday the buses don't even get close to full in most cases and that is with headways around 5 minutes or so. The ridership tends to be heaviest between Ave D and Fulton St and/or Eastern Parkway during the rush (understand that the B46 serves as a feeder somewhat for people in East Flatbush to the subway). Outside of that you don't really need the artics at all. 

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My theory is that the B46 SBS is not seeing crowds due to being cut back.

As Jdog states in his response the middle of the route does see extreme ridership. Whatever theories we can all point out to have the SBS+ go to WBP would be bad b/c of traffic, and there are no possible solutions to get the 46 to WBP.

 

On the other hand. I feel that the Artics should be on the local for rush hour and late night purposes.

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My theory is that the B46 SBS is not seeing crowds due to being cut back.

 

That's not why. Like I stated, the routes heaviest ridership is in the middle of the route during the rush hr, in part because it serves a large, populated area without subway service. The route was never crowded going to WBP. 

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I'm just looking at the schedule and am seeing frequencies that are really high. Routes with worse headways have seen artics come in to widen them and you don't have many people on here complaining. My position is that if artics are going to be used to cut service on high ridership routes then ALL of them should be in on it, B46 included.

 

This logic doesn't make sense. It's not an if 1 if all situation. If that was the case, the B6, B46, and to a lesser extent the B41 should have artics before almost any route in New York City. Facts, Figures, Schedules and ridership numbers don't tell a full story. They are nothing more than reference points to guage what's going on. Things also change over the years. The B103 went from being one of the least used routes in NYC history to being the 4th most used route in all of bus company division. That doesn't mean just throw artics on the route even if they are needed.

 

When routes are converted to articulated operations, or even considered for them, a lot goes into play. Location, routing, maintenance, traffic conditions, availability of buses needed, and much more.

 

If we use the logic you mention, 100% of the current articulated lines should have waited their turn in line, and some still be 6 years away from being implemented. Pre-SBS, Brooklyn lines combined (alone) shuttled more people a day, than the entire private line operations combined. Let's not even factor in the people who don't pay, and transit employees. That means the B6, B35, B41, B44, B46, Bx6, Bx19, Bx36, M14, M15, and Q44, should have gone artic before anything, anywhere...

 

 

My theory is that the B46 SBS is not seeing crowds due to being cut back.

No. it's increased service that's 90% on time. The old limited was not as frequent, it was interlined with the local, and always over crowded. Now the local is over crowded, and it needs rush hour artics. The SBS is fine because it's literally 200% more efficient than the limited.

 

If an old limited or current local has a 3-5 minute dwell time at Eastern Parkway, 20-60 people at anytime could be coming from the subway or another bus to 46. Now all those buses are stuck there till all those people each dip metro-cards. The SBS has an average dwell time of less than 50 seconds at the peak of rush hour (Wheelchairs accounted for). That means 4 SBS buses could have passed and 3 locals are still sitting there loading.

 

Artics are needed for the local. Not the SBS. We have a reverse effect going on. Similar to the B44+ before it caught on. The B44 also needs rush hour local artics. I used to love being able to catch an artic on the limited up New York avenue before SBS went into effect.... I ride the 44 SBS much less than I did limited.

Edited by East New York
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