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East New York

The Original Test Fleet Discussion

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ENY is correct. Three demos, 90 buses each. New Flyer w/ Allison Hybrid, 40ft. Nova LFS, Orion VII with Series Hybrid. Word on the street is there could be a fourth 90 bus order. Stay tuned. :P

 

(4th bus type later confirmed as Prevost)

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ENY is correct. Three demos, 90 buses each. New Flyer w/ Allison Hybrid, 40ft. Nova LFS, Orion VII with Series Hybrid. Word on the street is there could be a fourth 90 bus order. Stay tuned. :P

 

Is it possible that the 4th company is DesignLine with their 90?? I tried to find something out about it, and the only thing I could come up with was the order for those buses. This whole thing is just crazy to me anyway!

 

On a side note, MTA has cancelled their meeting with Orion this week to discuss the details of their order. Word is they want to evaluate the bus (Sales 1) a little further. An Orion executive will still make a trip down to New York City to hang around for the evaluation process, and answer any questions the TA might have. The buses were originally set to arrive near the time the New Flyer pilots will come in. Another note from the Orion Camp: "The longer it takes for them to tell us exactly want they want, the longer it will take us to get them there." Supposedly the holdup is because the TA wants to evaluate the electrical options on the bus. This get's more interesting every week! Stay tuned!

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Is it possible that the 4th company is DesignLine with their 90?? I tried to find something out about it, and the only thing I could come up with was the order for those buses. This whole thing is just crazy to me anyway!

This is what happens when a huge fleet (RTS) retires all at the same time. Crazy testing, experimenting, and ordering.

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Designline? Haha. They can't get past the initial hurdle of 8 or 9 buses. Not to mention the bus gets the same MPG as a conventional diesel, and costs 20-30% more!

 

I've been sworn to secrecy on the other Test and Evaluation. Sorry.

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Designline? Haha. They can't get past the initial hurdle of 8 or 9 buses. Not to mention the bus gets the same MPG as a conventional diesel, and costs 20-30% more!

 

I've been sworn to secrecy on the other Test and Evaluation. Sorry.

 

So I did some digging...... I'm not going to say a word either! Still don't know how true it is, but if it's who I think it is, I'm going to pass out on the floor!! I guess we can confirm it in October when ALL the details come to light! I can't wait!;)

 

This is the most exciting thread to date.Orion is pretty much going to have this in the pocket.Any wagers on this.:P

 

We just may have to wait and see! Thats what 95% of us said about the CNG order! Myself included.

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Most of the updates were made in their respective threads, but since there is no DE40 thread, I will continue posting their news here.

 

Looks like the order for delivery will be as follows:

1. Nova LFS

2. Orion VII 3G

3. New Flyer DE40

 

The deal with Orion is near completion, and I think the deal with Nova is now pending. Looks like the New Flyer order will be dealt with last. I still have not heard anything about a possible 4th order either.

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^^DE40? We're getting hybrids from NF as well?

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Why did New Flyer just not deal with the MTA at all last decade? Wasn't it some weird deal with a test bus?

 

Or was that NOVABus? Excuse me for moving out of Queens before I could even speak properly and memorize all the routes. I'm just used to seeing Orions all around the Island.

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Most of the updates were made in their respective threads, but since there is no DE40 thread, I will continue posting their news here.

 

Looks like the order for delivery will be as follows:

1. Nova LFS

2. Orion VII 3G

3. New Flyer DE40

 

The deal with Orion is near completion, and I think the deal with Nova is now pending. Looks like the New Flyer order will be dealt with last. I still have not heard anything about a possible 4th order either.

 

DE40? Please tell me you mean C40LF/R, DE40 looks weird

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DE40? Please tell me you mean C40LF/R, DE40 looks weird

 

The C40LF order is already confirmed. These are 3 entirely new orders.

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Let’s take a look at the entire fleet for a minute. What we are going to do here is discuss what is going to be going on within MTA over the next 4 years. Enjoy! (MTA)

 

NOTE: Unless stated otherwise, Long Island Bus is not included in any of these plans or figures.

 

Between now and 2014, MTA will likely take delivery of 2,375 new buses. Of which… 1,222 will be standard 40 footers

746 will be 60 foot artics

407 are 45 foot express buses.

 

Here is a breakdown of a big chunk of these future orders, and what coaches they are likely to replace. All orders are pending, as these buses have yet to be delivered.

 

Late 2011- Early 2012: Approximately 160-200 buses need to be replaced. These include, but are not limited to:

84 101-184 series ex-Bee Line Orion V diesels

35 6XX series Orion V diesels.

40 1000-1109 series artics

35 59XX series Orion V’s

57 800-856 series New Flyer C40LFs

*Excellerate retirement of about 250-300 of the1996 8750-9349 series RTS

 

Here’s what we got coming in that I know of.

 

At least 775 40 foot buses from Designline, New Flyer, Nova, and Orion.

 

(1) We have the New Flyer CNG Order for 475 buses. This is a scenario that would give each depot what it needs. It would also make sense for MTA to hold on to 857-989 for a little while longer. Till 2013 maybe?

College Point: 152

Jackie Gleason: 273 (pushing 58 OGs out to WF, and possibly CP, as well as retiring the 1998, and 1999 New Flyers.)

Spring Creek Depots: 50 (retiring 25 Orion V CNG’s, and sending 25 OGs to MTAB)

West Farms: 0

 

(2) 300 Buses (360 if MTA accepts delivery of all 90 DesignLines) total from all 4 of the above manufacturers: My guess is as good as any on this one, but I would say they will likely go to Casey Stengel, East New York, Fresh Pond, Grand Avenue, Manhattanville, Michael J. Quill, Queensvillage, and/or Ulmer Park depots.

 

(3) 118 Articulated buses are needed for 4 new SBS projects, and 72 are needed for MTA Bus Company’s Baisley Park, and JFK depots, which will be modified to handle the new buses. There are also a minimum of 40 buses needed to replace earlier models.

 

(4) 160-180 Express Buses will need to be replace by early 2012.

 

Depots 2010-2014:

1.) 126th Street, and Jamaica will be completely rebuilt.

2.) College Point and Spring Creek will have their CNG systems upgraded. A new elevator will also be installed at CP.

3.) A new “green roof” will be built on top of Far Rockaway.

3.) Mother Clara Hale will reopen.

4.) Baisley Park, Charleston, Flatbush, Grand Avenue, Jamaica, and JFK will support artics.

 

Other notes: Priority repairs, rehabs, and upgrades will also take place at several depots. The entire bus radio system will be replaced, with Smart/GPS units most likely. And the initial deployment of bus lane enforcement cameras will roll out.

 

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^^DE40? We're getting hybrids from NF as well?

 

Lol! Where have you been?

 

Why did New Flyer just not deal with the MTA at all last decade? Wasn't it some weird deal with a test bus?

 

Or was that NOVABus? Excuse me for moving out of Queens before I could even speak properly and memorize all the routes. I'm just used to seeing Orions all around the Island.

 

Well, back in 2002-2003, MTA placed an order for 65 NF D60HF's to be delivered in 2004. New Flyer subsequently discontinued their line of High Floor buses, and attemped to get MTA to convert the order to the LF model. MTA did not want the low floor at all, but NF continued to negotiate. MTA agreed to later test a D60LF. The bus failed, and MTA sued New Flyer in order to either have them build the buses originally specified in the terms of the contract, or return the money. As you know, we never did get buses 5770-5834. Anyone still want to know why MTA has the option of choosing the C40LF or LFR? Because they can pretty much get whatever they want now that they are doing business with each other again.

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I like the R's front, but I don't see how that would make the buses any more appealing to the MTA.

 

I still would love to know, though. I know NYC hasn't gotten any NEW CNG buses in a while.

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Okay Jamaica Depot (version 2.0) supporting artics threw me off for a minute. It needs them badly, it'd be good if it took over the Q44. But I know that's years away. Completely rebuilt means on the same site or a new location?

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Okay Jamaica Depot (version 2.0) supporting artics threw me off for a minute. It needs them badly, it'd be good if it took over the Q44. But I know that's years away. Completely rebuilt means on the same site or a new location?

 

Most likely the same location.

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Most likely the same location.

 

That's what I was thinking, the MTA could buyout the stores that are on the same block (just a cheap fast food place, Dominos, and some place called Hadco I think) and expand. However where would those 200 buses go.

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...I still would love to know, though. I know NYC hasn't gotten any NEW CNG buses in a while.

 

They did...the Orion VII CNGs at J. Gleason & West Farms. They got those in 2002 or 2003

 

That's what I was thinking, the MTA could buyout the stores that are on the same block (just a cheap fast food place, Dominos, and some place called Hadco I think) and expand. However where would those 200 buses go.

 

This is NYC. There's only 1 way to go...up ;)

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Okay Jamaica Depot (version 2.0) supporting artics threw me off for a minute. It needs them badly, it'd be good if it took over the Q44. But I know that's years away. Completely rebuilt means on the same site or a new location?

 

Most likely the same location.

 

That's what I was thinking, the MTA could buyout the stores that are on the same block (just a cheap fast food place, Dominos, and some place called Hadco I think) and expand. However where would those 200 buses go.

 

Last I was told, MTA was still researching where the depot will actually be located. They may chose a new site. Most (if not all) of the buses and routes will go to CS, and QV. And unless the Q44 goes to Jamaica, or Stengel gets artics, it's not likely you will see them on that route.

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They did...the Orion VII CNGs at J. Gleason & West Farms. They got those in 2002 or 2003

 

 

 

This is NYC. There's only 1 way to go...up :)

 

And that's what I meant. LI got new O5s in 2004 and a new batch of Orion VII NG CNG buses in 2008. You got Orion VIIs... 7 years ago.

 

It is sad that most of the Brooklyn depots haven't gotten any new buses since 2003 while LIB, with a ridership not even 10% of NYC's, got 67 new buses a year after.

 

I really do wish the MTA would do the opposite and send some of OUR buses to you guys. The O5s here ride smooth and fast, except when the A/C is on.

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And that's what I meant. LI got new O5s in 2004 and a new batch of Orion VII NG CNG buses in 2008. You got Orion VIIs... 7 years ago.

 

It is sad that most of the Brooklyn depots haven't gotten any new buses since 2003 while LIB, with a ridership not even 10% of NYC's, got 67 new buses a year after.

 

I really do wish the MTA would do the opposite and send some of OUR buses to you guys. The O5s here ride smooth and fast, except when the A/C is on.

 

The only buses that would come our way would be the O7 CNGs. Brooklyn is perfectly OK with what we have. Every Brooklyn depot has local buses that are 2005 or newer models except Gleason, and Ulmer. The more new buses we get, the less RTS' we'll have. The day is already approaching. Let's not rush it please!!!:cry: Besides, the only depot that needs new buses is Ulmer Park. And they actually maintain the hell out of their RTS', so in effect, they really don't NEED any buses right now. LIB on the other hand needed new buses.

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The MTA will soon strike a deal with New Flyer for 90 DE40LFR's, NovaBUS for 90 40 foot LFS Low-Sulfur Diesels, and 90 Orion VII 3G (EPA '10) hybrids. The three fleets will go head to head with each other, in what will be the most extensive testing in MTA history. The buses will be deployed in all five boroughs, and the winner will most likely be awarded the next contract. As more information comes in, I will be sure to post it.

 

Weren't the(MTA) getting C40LFR's

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Weren't the(MTA) getting C40LFR's

 

As of right now, the TA is getting C40LF's. The only way we will get C40LFR's, is if they change the order. That order, which has already been awarded is separate from the pending orders discussed in this thread.

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Is there an approximate year the MTA is giving for the retirement of the 1998-1999 (6000-6349) Orion 5s?

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