East New York Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share #26 Posted July 28, 2010 No, because they will bid on other orders to fill that production space. The DBNA unit had sales of roughly $600 Million in 2009 and if you want to go even further, we can look at the cash flow that Daimler provides. So no, losing a MTA contract worth 62 Million is not going to put a dent in operations because it can be filled with other orders. Ok, but either way it goes, they will have to scale down production slightly. Their backlog is not that large. And 62 mill bills is more than 10% of the '09 figure, so I don't see where that isn't a small dent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted July 28, 2010 Share #27 Posted July 28, 2010 Ok, but either way it goes, they will have to scale down production slightly. Their backlog is not that large. And 62 mill bills is more than 10% of the '09 figure, so I don't see where that isn't a small dent. How? New York isn't the only one buying buses. There are hundreds of agencies that could help fill in the gap from now until early 2012 (when the bulk of the MTA order is to be delivered). It is unfeasible to state that production might have to be scaled back again or it's a dent ahead of time because a) Most tenders are sent out 12-18 months prior to delivery with most being 12 months or so prior, so we haven't even gotten to seeing a lot of tenders for 2012 delivery Like I said above....there are other contracts to bid on to try ensure that their production levels and revenue remain constant, whether or not New York is buying buses from them or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share #28 Posted July 28, 2010 How? New York isn't the only one buying buses. There are hundreds of agencies that could help fill in the gap from now until early 2012 (when the bulk of the MTA order is to be delivered). It is unfeasible to state that production might have to be scaled back again or it's a dent ahead of time because a) Most tenders are sent out 12-18 months prior to delivery with most being 12 months or so prior, so we haven't even gotten to seeing a lot of tenders for 2012 delivery Like I said above....there are other contracts to bid on to try ensure that their production levels and revenue remain constant, whether or not New York is buying buses from them or not. Dude, I don't know. All I am stating is what Orion plans to do. Which is scale down production in 2011. This what they said. Not me! I'm just the messenger doing the posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted July 28, 2010 Share #29 Posted July 28, 2010 Dude, I don't know. All I am stating is what Orion plans to do. Which is scale down production in 2011. This what they said. Not me! I'm just the messenger doing the posting! Well then fair enough...in the future please make it clear where exactly the information is coming from and what exactly you are referring to. Your posts above seemed to imply (at least to me) it was a assumption made by yourself based solely on the fact that the MTA order was lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted July 28, 2010 Share #30 Posted July 28, 2010 The NG's are not strong at All Orion: We would like to thank you the MTA for buying our cheap no good fire cacthing Orion VII Nex Gens that looks like a Vertex pad that women wear when they are on their month, We would like to say thank you for buying 100 of our CNG NG that sounds like Big Foot Moaning like he's going to bust a Nut, We would like to thank the for this bid but we will win the next round, We like to sell our buses that are bulit out of plastic and Glue for 500,000. A majority of that didnt really make much logical sense at all. My overall verdict, NG CNGs > NG Hybrids. As much as I appreciate this new New Flyer order, they better build solid buses. Their recent products for other TAs such as WMATA and Chicago Transit Authority had such shitty build quality over the recent months that it just gets worse. CTA's DE60LFs & WMATA's DE60LFABRTs (Or DE62LFABRT) & DE42LFAs are not holding up as expected. This makes me question the reliability of the build quality & structure of OUR upcoming order.... New Flyer's build quality is equally shitty as Orion's quality. Right now, NovaBUS outranks the both of them in terms of structual grade & build quality. New Flyer builds over 6 different kinds of buses which makes their build quality even more questionable in terms of reliability and long-term operation, a perfect example would be some of our 1000 series artics as a vast majority of them couldnt even make it past 14-15 years like our TMCs which made it past 18 years. I'm all for diversity, but if you are going to deliver to us buses that wont last UP to its life expectancy or past it, we're going to have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenEleven Posted July 28, 2010 Share #31 Posted July 28, 2010 They're Noob Flyer. This won't last long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share #32 Posted July 28, 2010 Well then fair enough...in the future please make it clear where exactly the information is coming from and what exactly you are referring to. Your posts above seemed to imply (at least to me) it was a assumption made by yourself based solely on the fact that the MTA order was lost. True, but I felt as if I was already crossing a line when I said "they." I won't always be able to say where said info is coming from. I apologize if everyone needs to know where my info comes from, because I won't always be able to say it. And I definitely won't jeopardize my reputation or relationship with certain industry personnel just to prove a point. It will never be that serious to me, but obviously it is for some. From now on, it's take it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted July 28, 2010 Share #33 Posted July 28, 2010 True, but I felt as if I was already crossing a line when I said "they." I won't always be able to say where said info is coming from. I apologize if everyone needs to know where my info comes from, because I won't always be able to say it. And I definitely won't jeopardize my reputation or relationship with certain industry personnel just to prove a point. It will never be that serious to me, but obviously it is for some. From now on, it's take it or leave it. For the record, I never said you had to name certain industry personnel. I understand where you're coming from on that 100% because I am often in the same position. Something Like "Orion said..." is a lot more clear than "they will have to..." for example and would have avoided a lot of my confusion as to where you were coming from. I do apologize for the mini-scene I caused as well. I hope that clears it up. Anyways I've dragged it too much off topic so I think I'll send it there, apologies for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share #34 Posted August 23, 2010 Now who said the loss of an award for 135 wouldn't put a dent in Orion's operations? Well as I said earlier in this thread when the news first broke, that it was a possibility that they would have to scale down production. Well here it is. I just got through conversing with my friend at Daimler, and he had a lot to say! This article is about the possibly lay offs up at the Oriskany facility. As of today, 8/23/10, they are still in negotiations with the union to come up with a solution. We will start with this: From NBC News •Daimler Buses: 27 to be laid off at Orion Bus Orion Bus employees negotiating the future By PAT BAILEY Story Created: Aug 18, 2010 at 1:05 PM EDT (Story Updated: Aug 18, 2010 at 5:25 PM EDT ) ORISKANY, N.Y. (WKTV) - A news tip came into NEWSChannel 2 stating Orion Bus employees were told if they do not support a three-day-a-week work week, there will be "mass layoffs" at the company. A spokesman for Orion's parent company, Daimler Buses North America, did not address the claim, but hint that there may be some kind of downsizing in the near future. Both sides, the union and the parent company, have confirmed that they are in contract negotiations. The current contract runs out at the end of August, said Bryan Allen, Marketing & Corporation Communication Manager for Daimler Buses North America. While at Orion Bus in Oriskany on Wednesday, one employee on break told our news crew that they are hearing three-day work weeks are part of the negotiations. Other employees asked our crew "what was going on," saying only "you know what we know." Bryan Allen tells NEWSChannel 2 that the parent company has notified the local employees at Orion Bus that there has been a decrease in transit orders already for next year. "Production orders for next year are down industry wide," Allen said. "We are looking at a plan that impacts the least amount of people. We are working closely with the union to jointly develop such a plan." A union employee NEWSChannel 2 talked with on Wednesday said negotiations have been on going for weeks. However, they did not release any specific details about those negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted August 23, 2010 Share #35 Posted August 23, 2010 So here it is. Orion presented their case in front of the MTA, and the s*** is about to hit the fan! Basicly, they said that they are not disputing the award going to New Flyer at all, and the MDBF record for the Orion VII speaks for itself. The Chief Marketing Officer (Orion) is so dissapointed that he is thinking of not even sending an Orion VII 3G to the TA. Orion will also sit in on the board meeting tomorrow (7/28/07). A committee member asked this, "How can I vote for New Flyer and they don't even have a facility in New York?" But, in all actuallity, the order will stick. New Flyer offered the lowest bid, so MTA has no choice but to award them the contract. And the saga continues...... I will have an update on the board meeting outcome on Thursday the 29th. Lol someone's a little butthurt but hey, if my design team designed buses the way they did now I'd tell them to start the hell over and design something that's not so BOXY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted August 23, 2010 Share #36 Posted August 23, 2010 Lol someone's a little butthurt but hey, if my design team designed buses the way they did now I'd tell them to start the hell over and design something that's not so BOXY! A slant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted August 23, 2010 Share #37 Posted August 23, 2010 A slant? Needs moar curves and rounded edges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted August 23, 2010 Share #38 Posted August 23, 2010 Needs moar curves and rounded edges http://www.mdot.maryland.gov/bin/b/n/max%20bus.jpg??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted August 23, 2010 Share #39 Posted August 23, 2010 Hmmm, while that doesn't look bad at all that's a little TOO much. LOL okay we went off-topic there, back to the subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted August 24, 2010 Share #40 Posted August 24, 2010 If I was Orion... "I applaud our fellow Canadians over at New Flyer for snatching that right from under our feet.But Hear me out New flyer we will take the next order and If we win the next order,you guys have to treat us to some Canadian bacon and Maple Syrup!!! Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akamtabx36 Posted August 24, 2010 Share #41 Posted August 24, 2010 i would say this to New Flyer: you won this one but as the terminator said "I'LL BE BACK"and we will with artics (i hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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