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East New York

MCI OTR Coaches

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Hey all, I have a couple questions about the MCI's. The original order for the CT's called for I think 125 buses. When they first started to arrive, all of a sudden, they left the city. Then when they began to return, we only accepted 41 IIRC. What's up with that?

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There was problems with the exhaust that if some walked behind the bus, it could burn them.... so the (MTA) sent all 126 buses (to be exact) back to MCI to have them fixed. Then, they only accepted 41 buses (2210-2250. 2210-2228 to Yukon and 2229-2250 to Spring Creek). Then, 18 units were taken by (NJT) and became (NJT) 7101-7118 and are assigned to the Howard yard in New Jersey. Had (MTA) taken these units, they would have been 2251-2268.

Edited by Novabus 5000

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There was problems with the exhaust that if some walked behind the bus, it could burn them.... so the (MTA) sent all 126 buses (to be exact) back to MCI to have them fixed. Then, they only accepted 41 buses (2210-2250. 2210-2228 to Yukon and 2229-2250 to Spring Creek). Then, 18 units were taken by (NJT) and became (NJT) 7101-7118 and are assigned to the Howard yard in New Jersey. Had (MTA) taken these units, they would have been 2251-2268.

 

I heard different.

 

The MCIs with the Cummings ISMs have to "regenerate" every so often to burn off soot that builds up in the diesel particulate filter. This causes higher exhaust temps while the process is taking care of itself. At Bonanza our 4505s are set to do it automatically because the buses don't always make it back to a maintenance facility. I heard that the (MTA) wanted to do it manually indoors and that was the big holdup of getting the buses.

 

Now the (MTA) took 41 buses and (NJT) took 18....where are the rest of them? I know CTTransit didn't....after purchasing their first batch of D4500s from NJT they have been on a buying new,not slightly used kick. So are they in hiding somewhere or did MCI really take them back?

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I heard different.

 

The MCIs with the Cummings ISMs have to "regenerate" every so often to burn off soot that builds up in the diesel particulate filter. This causes higher exhaust temps while the process is taking care of itself. At Bonanza our 4505s are set to do it automatically because the buses don't always make it back to a maintenance facility. I heard that the (MTA) wanted to do it manually indoors and that was the big holdup of getting the buses.

 

Now the (MTA) took 41 buses and (NJT) took 18....where are the rest of them? I know CTTransit didn't....after purchasing their first batch of D4500s from NJT they have been on a buying new,not slightly used kick. So are they in hiding somewhere or did MCI really take them back?

 

I don't know anything about that, but the MCI's in question have CAT engines.

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I heard different.

 

The MCIs with the Cummings ISMs have to "regenerate" every so often to burn off soot that builds up in the diesel particulate filter. This causes higher exhaust temps while the process is taking care of itself. At Bonanza our 4505s are set to do it automatically because the buses don't always make it back to a maintenance facility. I heard that the (MTA) wanted to do it manually indoors and that was the big holdup of getting the buses.

 

Now the (MTA) took 41 buses and (NJT) took 18....where are the rest of them? I know CTTransit didn't....after purchasing their first batch of D4500s from NJT they have been on a buying new,not slightly used kick. So are they in hiding somewhere or did MCI really take them back?

 

 

The real story on those buses are they came with DPF Particulate Sensors. MTA wanted them on at all times. MCI told them they would not be safe with them set to stay on. So, to prove MTA wrong, they placed a piece of wood under the exhaust, started the bus, and within 30 seconds, the wood caught on fire! They decided they were NOT safe to leave them set to ON position at all times. Also, these buses have CAT C-13 ACERT Engines, Not Cummins ISMs. Hope this info helps

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I don't know anything about that, but the MCI's in question have CAT engines.

 

Originally, the 2200s were spec'd to have Cummins ISM engines, but because of the heat output, they were converted to Caterpillar C-13 engines. Or at least that was what I was told.

 

I heard different.

 

The MCIs with the Cummins ISMs have to "regenerate" every so often to burn off soot that builds up in the diesel particulate filter. This causes higher exhaust temps while the process is taking care of itself. At Bonanza our 4505s are set to do it automatically because the buses don't always make it back to a maintenance facility. I heard that the (MTA) wanted to do it manually indoors and that was the big holdup of getting the buses.

 

Now the (MTA) took 41 buses and (NJT) took 18....where are the rest of them? I know CTTransit didn't....after purchasing their first batch of D4500s from NJT they have been on a buying new,not slightly used kick. So are they in hiding somewhere or did MCI really take them back?

 

Yup, and the heat output was tremendous, disintegrating anything that would be behind the bus.

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The ISMs seem to run hotter. Our DD Series 60 buses run 180-195 degrees, the ISMs run at 200-220 degrees. I'm assuming thats why the 4505s have a much larger radiator and larger clutch fans.

 

In any case it will be interested to see who gets the next order for express buses. I heard the (MTA) liked the Prevost demo, but do they have Prevost money? And Prevost does not like to clog up their line with big orders,which is why Greyhound went back to MCI.

 

It will be interesting to see that one play out.

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The ISMs seem to run hotter. Our DD Series 60 buses run 180-195 degrees, the ISMs run at 200-220 degrees. I'm assuming thats why the 4505s have a much larger radiator and larger clutch fans.

 

In any case it will be interested to see who gets the next order for express buses. I heard the (MTA) liked the Prevost demo, but do they have Prevost money? And Prevost does not like to clog up their line with big orders,which is why Greyhound went back to MCI.

 

It will be interesting to see that one play out.

 

If I hear, or read the word Detroit Diesel one more time I am going to scream! Daimler.....Please give us back our DD's!!! ( I know that will never happen! But it was worth the shout out!)

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might be a little OT, but it's been a while since any cruisers were ordered spec'd with DD's... i am curious as to the reason.... as of now, the new engines are EPA 2010 compatible, so either it's price or performance....the latter of which shouldn't be an issue, since from my standpoint, DD is very reliable, unless someone want's to refute me on that one.

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It was originally stated Detroit Diesel would not sell outside the Daimler family begining with the EPA 2010 engines. However, it looks like they've changed their stance or MCI negotiated with Daimler as the EPA 2010-compliant MCI E and J will have the option for the Detroit Diesel DD13 BlueTech engine.

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I didn't know DD had this new series of engines. I take it they're still four stroke like all the other newer engines. Do they sound like Series 50 or 60?

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might be a little OT, but it's been a while since any cruisers were ordered spec'd with DD's... i am curious as to the reason.... as of now, the new engines are EPA 2010 compatible, so either it's price or performance....the latter of which shouldn't be an issue, since from my standpoint, DD is very reliable, unless someone want's to refute me on that one.

 

It was originally stated Detroit Diesel would not sell outside the Daimler family begining with the EPA 2010 engines. However, it looks like they've changed their stance or MCI negotiated with Daimler as the EPA 2010-compliant MCI E and J will have the option for the Detroit Diesel DD13 BlueTech engine.

 

I'm slightly confused as to what you guys are talking about. DD pulled out of the bus industry, and has not produced any engines for transit applications since the discontinuance of the series 50 and the exclusivity agreement with Cummins to supply engines for the VII hybrid. I had not heard news of then getting back in the bus game, but that doesn't mean they aren't. I will have to look into this.

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Ok. So after doing some searching, I see that DD's are optional equipment on OTR coaches. So I guess it's just the line-haul coaches that they aren't offering engines for at this time.

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There was problems with the exhaust that if some walked behind the bus, it could burn them.... so the (MTA) sent all 126 buses (to be exact) back to MCI to have them fixed. Then, they only accepted 41 buses (2210-2250. 2210-2228 to Yukon and 2229-2250 to Spring Creek). Then, 18 units were taken by (NJT) and became (NJT) 7101-7118 and are assigned to the Howard yard in New Jersey. Had (MTA) taken these units, they would have been 2251-2268.

All the units were not built. Just the ones that are running around now, including the units NJT picked up.

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I'm slightly confused as to what you guys are talking about. DD pulled out of the bus industry, and has not produced any engines for transit applications since the discontinuance of the series 50 and the exclusivity agreement with Cummins to supply engines for the VII hybrid. I had not heard news of then getting back in the bus game, but that doesn't mean they aren't. I will have to look into this.

 

Right now Detroit Diesel is still in the motorcoach engine market. They had pulled out of the transit market but remained in the motorcoach market with the Series 60. The DD13 has replaced the Series 60 and therefore will be used in the Setra S 417 and MCI E4500 and J4500.

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Right now Detroit Diesel is still in the motorcoach engine market. They had pulled out of the transit market but remained in the motorcoach market with the Series 60. The DD13 has replaced the Series 60 and therefore will be used in the Setra S 417 and MCI E4500 and J4500.

 

Thanks for the info! I don't follow OTR coaches, so I never knew this. Very interesting! They are just so boring to me! However I do like the newer models and the hybrids! If we had hybrids, then I would be interested.

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Are you talking about the MCI buses that have that unusual back end? I believe those buses have the automated announcements too.

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Right now Detroit Diesel is still in the motorcoach engine market. They had pulled out of the transit market but remained in the motorcoach market with the Series 60. The DD13 has replaced the Series 60 and therefore will be used in the Setra S 417 and MCI E4500 and J4500.

 

However, Daimler had intended to make Detroit Diesel an in-house engine supplier only, which would have forced MCI to go to Cummins engines in its buses.

 

And @MattTrain, yes we are---it is 2210-2228 (Yukon) and 2229-2250 (Spring Creek). The units out of Howell (NJT 7101-7118) have the automated announcement antenna broken off.

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Hey all, I have a couple questions about the MCI's. The original order for the CT's called for I think 125 buses. When they first started to arrive, all of a sudden, they left the city. Then when they began to return, we only accepted 41 IIRC. What's up with that?

 

I used to see the CT's all over the SC routes. No wonder it seemed like there were less of them.

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