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Trainmaster5

Demise of S/As and LIRR Ticket sellers

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With the reductions in S/A staffing in the subways and the ongoing closing of LIRR ticket windows what are your thoughts, pro and con, on the (MTA)s reliance on electronic fare collection ? I've heard the arguments about rude, lazy people in both positions, although I've never personally encountered such. As you know (MTA) Chairman Walder is touting his " Oyster card" experiences in London as reason to reduce headcounts in S/As, LIRR ticket agents, and the fare collectors on-board LIRR trains,( not the actual conductor), as a way to streamline fare collection and speed up your commute. I have misgivings about putting my money or credit card in any machine and would only do so if the was NO human alternative but that's just my old school upbringing. Some people feel differently about embracing new technology however and I'd like some feedback on your POV. We don't need people bashing someone's job title but a rational discussion of the pros and cons of the movement toward MVM-TVM fare collection.

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With the reductions in S/A staffing in the subways and the ongoing closing of LIRR ticket windows what are your thoughts, pro and con, on the (MTA)s reliance on electronic fare collection ? I've heard the arguments about rude, lazy people in both positions, although I've never personally encountered such. As you know (MTA) Chairman Walder is touting his " Oyster card" experiences in London as reason to reduce headcounts in S/As, LIRR ticket agents, and the fare collectors on-board LIRR trains,( not the actual conductor), as a way to streamline fare collection and speed up your commute. I have misgivings about putting my money or credit card in any machine and would only do so if the was NO human alternative but that's just my old school upbringing. Some people feel differently about embracing new technology however and I'd like some feedback on your POV. We don't need people bashing someone's job title but a rational discussion of the pros and cons of the movement toward MVM-TVM fare collection.

 

I have mixed feelings. There are a lot of times when the MetroCard reader says "SWIPE AGAIN", "SWIPE AGAIN AT THIS TURNSTILE" and/or "SEE STATION AGENT" and the station agent lets you into the system.

It all depends. If it were a foolproof system, then, yes I would have more faith in the turnstiles and MVMs, but since they aren't I'm not sure if this is a good idea.

All I can say is, let's hope that "SmartCard" gets implemented soon.

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With the reductions in S/A staffing in the subways and the ongoing closing of LIRR ticket windows what are your thoughts, pro and con, on the (MTA)s reliance on electronic fare collection ? I've heard the arguments about rude, lazy people in both positions, although I've never personally encountered such. As you know (MTA) Chairman Walder is touting his " Oyster card" experiences in London as reason to reduce headcounts in S/As, LIRR ticket agents, and the fare collectors on-board LIRR trains,( not the actual conductor), as a way to streamline fare collection and speed up your commute. I have misgivings about putting my money or credit card in any machine and would only do so if the was NO human alternative but that's just my old school upbringing. Some people feel differently about embracing new technology however and I'd like some feedback on your POV. We don't need people bashing someone's job title but a rational discussion of the pros and cons of the movement toward MVM-TVM fare collection.

 

I still think since Walder is bent on going after heads, another possibility would have been to explore merging the titles of S/A and transit police and allow them to roam the stations (and leave the booth if need be) to respond to emergencies. It would also allow them to enforce penalties for fare evasion at the scene rather than having to call it in, and respond to crimes quickly and with force if needed. I do agree that S/A's had their bad apples like all titles, but by firing those based on seniority a lot of good people were lost and a lot of the bad apples were still kept.

 

I don't like electronic fare collection too much if it's tied directly to a bank account or credit/debit card. I don't mind it if it's automatic but works like a prepaid (like a Metrocard does)

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I still think since Walder is bent on going after heads, another possibility would have been to explore merging the titles of S/A and transit police and allow them to roam the stations (and leave the booth if need be) to respond to emergencies. It would also allow them to enforce penalties for fare evasion at the scene rather than having to call it in, and respond to crimes quickly and with force if needed. I do agree that S/A's had their bad apples like all titles, but by firing those based on seniority a lot of good people were lost and a lot of the bad apples were still kept.

 

I don't like electronic fare collection too much if it's tied directly to a bank account or credit/debit card. I don't mind it if it's automatic but works like a prepaid (like a Metrocard does)

IIRC with a credit card you have a better chance of disputing a transaction vs using a debit card. I prefer not to give the (MTA) or any company direct access to my bank accounts.

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IIRC with a credit card you have a better chance of disputing a transaction vs using a debit card. I prefer not to give the (MTA) or any company direct access to my bank accounts.

 

That's true, with a credit card at least they're arguing for your money vs. the other cases you're arguing for your money back

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Walder is using transit employees as lab rats in his experiments disregarding them as human beings. Everyone is dispensible until something happens. If buildings can provide a doorman to provide added security, MTA cannot afford a station agent for the thousands of riding public that uses it everyday?? You have to question that. Laying off 266 SA to save 11 millions for which he uses to put up non working cameras? Where is the savings in that? If everyone feels that SA are so dispensable, I wish Walder would fire all of them and see how fast Walder would lose his job.

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My quibble is with the "eyes and ears" initiative. With cameras and MVMs-TVMs there is no focused observation of an area per se. IMO a human, PD or S/A, is more of a deterrent than a camera in most cases. I feel a camera is a tool to identify someone after the crime is commited, not before. I'm speaking about the average mope, not a suicidal wack job who doesn't give a damn 'cause he/she is looking for the shock value and isn't going to be around for a court of law. The less eyes and ears on-site makes for a less safe system. As for the fare collection itself I think the (MTA) feels it's cheaper to let some people ride free and pay less people to collect those fares than to pay a salary and benefits. In the long run every commuter will pay more to make up the shortfall in farebox revenue. Just my opinion.

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i ride the path a lot and it seems to work there. but they do at least have cops on site. as for the title merge that will never happen. s/a's are (MTA) workers. transit cops are nypd assigned to the transit beauro.

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Walder is using transit employees as lab rats in his experiments disregarding them as human beings. Everyone is dispensible until something happens. If buildings can provide a doorman to provide added security, MTA cannot afford a station agent for the thousands of riding public that uses it everyday?? You have to question that. Laying off 266 SA to save 11 millions for which he uses to put up non working cameras? Where is the savings in that? If everyone feels that SA are so dispensable, I wish Walder would fire all of them and see how fast Walder would lose his job.

 

Station Agents are human beings? Then why are they in glass cages yelling and looking angry?

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Lets put PhrasierCrane inside an enclosed glass cage forced by MTA policy for 8 hours and see his reaction. Such experiment would do so much more than words. Perhaps then, everyone can once again becomes human beings.

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Thank MTA for saving money by letting 42nd street (prime terrorist target) turnstiles area and various other area be left WIDE OPEN for fare evaders and other crimes.

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My quibble is with the "eyes and ears" initiative. With cameras and MVMs-TVMs there is no focused observation of an area per se. IMO a human, PD or S/A, is more of a deterrent than a camera in most cases. I feel a camera is a tool to identify someone after the crime is commited, not before. I'm speaking about the average mope, not a suicidal wack job who doesn't give a damn 'cause he/she is looking for the shock value and isn't going to be around for a court of law. The less eyes and ears on-site makes for a less safe system. As for the fare collection itself I think the (MTA) feels it's cheaper to let some people ride free and pay less people to collect those fares than to pay a salary and benefits. In the long run every commuter will pay more to make up the shortfall in farebox revenue. Just my opinion.

 

 

The way this can be addressed is have whatever number of cameras hooked up in a room where someone is paid to watch them, much like security in a business. If the person sees something, he can phone the police. This is what the MTA is probably going to end up doing because you can pay that person $10 or $15 per hour, because they don't have to handle any money and they don't have to deal with passengers. Problem solved. A station Agent being there will not stop a crime either. They've never stopped fare evaders.

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Lets put PhrasierCrane inside an enclosed glass cage forced by MTA policy for 8 hours and see his reaction. Such experiment would do so much more than words. Perhaps then, everyone can once again becomes human beings.

 

 

 

Such hostility. Oh my. What will become of you?

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The way this can be addressed is have whatever number of cameras hooked up in a room where someone is paid to watch them, much like security in a business. If the person sees something, he can phone the police. This is what the MTA is probably going to end up doing because you can pay that person $10 or $15 per hour, because they don't have to handle any money and they don't have to deal with passengers. Problem solved. A station Agent being there will not stop a crime either. They've never stopped fare evaders.

 

C'mon now. We've all seen those Keystone Kop wannabes in the drug stores, dollar stores and the like. Do you really believe that's security? I realize you don't like S/As but you've got to be kidding me. IIRC there was an incident in a NYCHA project where a POLICE officer, monitoring a bank of screens, missed a rape in progress. The whole attack was captured on film. I would venture a guess that if that officer, or anyone else, was on the scene the odds are the attack would not have happened. The skel didn't give a rat's ass about a camera. In no way am I equating a S/A with a police officer but I think a S/A would know more about the subway system and what to look for rather than a BS rent-a-cop. That's my opinion and you're entitled to yours.

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C'mon now. We've all seen those Keystone Kop wannabes in the drug stores, dollar stores and the like. Do you really believe that's security? I realize you don't like S/As but you've got to be kidding me. IIRC there was an incident in a NYCHA project where a POLICE officer, monitoring a bank of screens, missed a rape in progress. The whole attack was captured on film. I would venture a guess that if that officer, or anyone else, was on the scene the odds are the attack would not have happened. The skel didn't give a rat's ass about a camera. In no way am I equating a S/A with a police officer but I think a S/A would know more about the subway system and what to look for rather than a BS rent-a-cop. That's my opinion and you're entitled to yours.

 

And the sleeping S/A is security? Really? REALLY? REALLY?

 

I got one for you. If a pregnant woman in a restaurant collapsed, would it have been better to have a paramedic there, or some rent a medic watching screens? If you don't know what I mean, I'm not going to tell you. Look it up. Some times you can be in a room with 50 people and yet be alone, and have no one to help you. The S/A version of the security guards you mention are pathetic, and I am not talking about those types. I'm talking about real workers doing the job. I would agree with you that most of the time the drug stores you mention are a joke, but the real stores that do real business have no problem catching people doing the wrong things at better stores.

Edited by Blatherskite

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You're becoming more human already.

 

And you're becoming......oh I won't say it. I promised an administrator I wouldn't make you cry by telling you the truth about you so nevermind. Get back to your delusions. Enjoy.

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And the sleeping S/A is security? Really? REALLY? REALLY?

 

I got one for you. If a preganat woman in a restaurant collapsed, would it have been better to have a paramedic there, or some rent a medic watching screens. If you don't know what I mean, I'm not going to tell you. Look it up. Some times you can be in a room with 50 people and yet be alone, and have no one to help you. The the S/A version of the security guards you mention are pathetic, and I am not talking about those types. I'm talking about real workers doing the job. I would agree with you that most of the time the drug stores you mention are a joke, but the real stores that do real business have no probalem catching people doing the wrong things at better stores.

 

I've worked at A&S, Macy's, Sears, and Alexander's in my many years on this earth and I'm related to people who moonlighted as security on all of them.. Ten or fifteen bucks an hour for what kind of security? The kid who cuts my grass makes that. Neither the (MTA) or NYPD have enough money or the resources to provide the type of security the subways and railroads need. NYPD has less manpower today than in the recent past so why not utilize the people already present,( non-sleeping) S/As, rather than rent-a-cops? I see your EMT crack. Good shot, but where was that guy busted stealing laptops? Was that 1 Police Plaza? Even the big boys aren't perfect so imagine a Dudley Do-Right protecting the subways. You're hatred of S/As amazes me. Maybe it's a generational thing. I would never use a MVM-TVM machine or an ATM if there's a human presence in the area. To each his own. It's all good.

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I've worked at A&S, Macy's, Sears, and Alexander's in my many years on this earth and I'm related to people who moonlighted as security on all of them.. Ten or fifteen bucks an hour for what kind of security? The kid who cuts my grass makes that. Neither the (MTA) or NYPD have enough money or the resources to provide the type of security the subways and railroads need. NYPD has less manpower today than in the recent past so why not utilize the people already present,( non-sleeping) S/As, rather than rent-a-cops? I see your EMT crack. Good shot, but where was that guy busted stealing laptops? Was that 1 Police Plaza? Even the big boys aren't perfect so imagine a Dudley Do-Right protecting the subways. You're hatred of S/As amazes me. Maybe it's a generational thing. I would never use a MVM-TVM machine or an ATM if there's a human presence in the area. To each his own. It's all good.

 

 

 

I don't have a hatred of S/A's I have a strong dislike of people who treat other people like crap, and a strong dislike of people who are paid fairly well compared to other jobs that are much more physically demanding, but still won't do their job.

 

The job of a S/A doesn't need to be explained again, but why is it always pointed out, so and so was nasty, so and so wouldn't help me when I asked a simple question, etc. I love the Toronto Station Agents, so please don't assume I have a hatred for S/As.

 

Everything I have said about S/As is from my own observations. What have I seen most S/As do? Being racist. Give a nasty attitude when someone expects them to do the job they are paid for. I've seen many sleeping. (if I hated them I would have taken tons of pictures and reported them, but I didn't) I've seen them say to people what do you want me to do about it when someone asked them for help like calling for help when someone was sick in the station. I mostly see them talking on the phone, then get pissed off at the customer for interrupting their phone call. I've seen them treat other Transit workers like trash. I see them treat someone like crap because they didn't understand something. That last point is the mark of an ahole. So you get trained to be a station agent and you know how everything works because of your training. The customer did not receive this same training, nor is the subway their life, so there is no reason to be such a piece of crap about it when they don't know something.

 

I don't use them because honestly, I don't need them, nor do I want to deal with a nasty miserble a hole. I can't recall seeing a S/A smile at a customer in years. Again I am not saying all are bad, but from what I have seen, what I pointed out about has happened most of the time I have observed. Had they had a better attitude, more people would have fought to save them. The puny numbers that showed up in their defense should be an indication that you reap what you sow. If I see something, I just say something to the 911 operator. It will be quicker any way, than going to the S/A to have them call the control center to call the police or an ambulance.

 

 

Oh and a point about your argument about the wages. If I get $5.00 per hour or $50.00 per hour for a job, I still do it right because I take pride in whatever work I do. Whatever work I do is a reflection on me, so if you have people being a keystone kop as security, then they are probably also a keystone human being in life. I think someone who is good should be treaded well, and someone who is bad, should be treated badly. No free trips if you haven't earned it. No charity when you can do something on your own. If this country had that attitude, maybe it wouldn't be in the sh*t stew it's in now.

Edited by Blatherskite

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You have to wonder how some of the public has cause the Jet Blue Flight Attendant to react the way he did. NYC people compare to Toronto people makes the difference. We either love or hate new yorkers attitude. Move all the station agents to Toronto and I'm sure you will get a friendly smile from them. A New Yorkers as yourself wants services like Toronto? We should all call them over to run NYC and run a change in attitude compaign.

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You have to wonder how some of the public has cause the Jet Blue Flight Attendant to react the way he did. NYC people compare to Toronto people makes the difference. We either love or hate new yorkers attitude. Move all the station agents to Toronto and I'm sure you will get a friendly smile from them. A New Yorkers as yourself wants services like Toronto? We should all call them over to run NYC and run a change in attitude compaign.

 

An ahole is an ahole where ever you put the ahole. I'll give you an example. I did volunteer work this year for the census. I had to go door to door, and dealt with about 1 third being very nice and understanding, about one third being a little weird/ scarey with some of the stuff they said, and one third was very nasty cursing at me and insulting me and treating me like crap. You want to know what I did to the rude ones? I stayed calm. I said to them, I am not yelling at you or cursing at you, so there is no reason to do that to me. You know what they did in response? They felt pretty stupid because for one, it takes two to have a fight, and 2, when you are the only one yelling for no apparent reason, you look and feel stupid when it's pointed out to you.

 

I was born and raised in New York, so there is no excuse to be an a**hole. What did I do to calm down the angry people? I acted like an adult. It's as simple as that. Now if any of them had assaulted me, it would have been a different story. Either I would have defended myself or called the police. When someone puts their hands on you, then the rules change, but there is no excuse for being nasty for no reason. Don't like a job that deals with custonmer service? Don't apply for it. Very simple.

 

Again being born and rasied in New York, you saying the New York attitude equates to someone pointing out a stereotype and making it true for everyone. I don't treat people like sh*t, and I have never lived anywhere outside of NYC. I've given rides to total strangers that were stranded or in danger. I've also driven far out of my way to give female coworkers rides home so that they could get home safely without thinking they owe me or owe anything. I've warned people about dangers ahead instead of minding my own business. I've intervened when people were being bullied and called out "why don't you hit me?" to stop the bully victim from being bullied. I have helped many friends in need without a thank you or even acknowledgment that I helped, but it didn't stop me from continuing to help them because I did it to help them, and not for a reward. I helped them because that's just me. I was raised by humans and not jackals. I've been around racists that were racist towards me. I was disgusted with them, but one of them had a brother in the hospital and I still helped with medical advice because this person was in over their head. Your New Yorker argument is as bad as your attitude toward me is. There is no excuse for being an ahole to someone that didn't do anything to you. No excuse at all.

 

As for the Jet Blue attendant, some reports say he may have started it, and other reports say he may have a drinking problem. Either way, being a flight attendant doesn't have anything to do with this conversation. I'm sure flight attendants have it much worse than S/As because they don't have a glass booth protecting them, and they are dealing with many people at the same time most of the time they are working, which can be overwelming. They also get treated like crap. The original name was Steward, not attendant. Steward means servant, so they are basically treated that way. It says a lot about you how you treat someone that helps you. I treat someone that helps me great. Why would I be nasty to them? They're helping me.

Edited by Blatherskite

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A New Yorkers as yourself wants services like Toronto? We should all call them over to run NYC and run a change in attitude compaign.

 

And to answer that, a change in attitude campaign is not needed. What they need to do is either grow up or get psychiatric help.

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