Do u think there should be a Massive Strike against The MTA LayOffs..

[SubwayGuy]

By the time some of these "teenagers" get out in the real world with whatever education they may have they are going to be in for a shock.

 

I hope they arent holding out waiting for a RTO job....

 

Nah those jobs are "beneath" them, they all think they can study engineering and that their degree will immediately give them a job where they can design new subway routes and change existing ones with an unlimited budget and no regard for reality or what is structurally sound. Then they can make their fantasy maps come true, you know, as an entry level employee because their bosses are so kind and sweet and nice like Walder that they'll just let them do whatever they want and pay them a lot in the process. They think they'll even pay them to go on here or Subchat and argue in favor of certain service patterns. Public relations, right?

 

Right?

[RTOMan]

Nah those jobs are "beneath" them, they all think they can study engineering and that their degree will immediately give them a job where they can design new subway routes and change existing ones with an unlimited budget and no regard for reality or what is structurally sound. Then they can make their fantasy maps come true, you know, as an entry level employee because their bosses are so kind and sweet and nice like Walder that they'll just let them do whatever they want and pay them a lot in the process. They think they'll even pay them to go on here or Subchat and argue in favor of certain service patterns. Public relations, right?

 

Right?

 

Word but only in fantasy land, which i see a few of em are living in right now.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[B35 via Church]

Yeah do you know the strike that happen several years back. They had to pay everyday they weren't at work and breaking the law. A million dollars a day. You know they strike for 3 days and they only had 3 million dollars. Also it is truly stupid to protest because of a boss. He could be a jerk but he's paying you and allowing you to work in this economic downturn so how stupid is that. Besides how stupid is it to have a strike you can't get anywhere within the city easily. Unless you think its ultra cool to see a major strike then I suggest not wishing for one.

 

It aint about being "ultra cool"...

It's about standing for a cause & sending a message.

 

The perspective at which you look at things shows your lack of real world experience... You are not there yet as a working class adult... that's the problem with kids in this generation... getting into dialogues with grown folk as if you're grown yourselves - thinking you're more correct than we are.

 

Dude, if you're the boss of a business that has thousands of workers ranging in a variety of job titles/duties/responsibilities of your blue collar and white collar workers... and every single one of them ceased working for a certain amount of time, to defiantly stand their ground for a cause....

 

Think about what gets done in the course of a day/week/month....

Think about the potential lost earnings for that business in that timeframe...

 

A Boss can't do the work of every single individual that decides to strike... you force his hand... put the ole squeeze play on him... the more workers that strike, his chances of him performing their duties greatly decreases....

 

^^ all assuming the SOB has the BALLS to even think about doing *gasp* manual labor.... that concept is beneath most bosses.

 

If you & your co-workers are striking (for w/e the cause), are you gonna care about a boss' plight (problems) ? of course not - b/c you have to 'fend for yourself & the family you have to provide for in this world.....

 

Look champ, you may not realize this yet, but you will find out, in one way or another as you mature, That there are strength in numbers, and numbers in strength.

 

 

 

How come I have this feeling that in the future the might end up as it was in the late 1970's and 80's filled with graffiti, scratch graffiti, and dirty subway cars.

You weren't even born !

 

Stop piggybacking off other people's (paranoid) opinions....

[RTOMan]

You are not automaticly indespenceable, even with a civil service job. You become that by proving to those above you that you are the best at what you do.

 

My father was screwed by the city out of a promotion to PD Lt. He was in the Housing Police prior to the merger, and the housing sargents got shoved onto the bottom of the list after the merger. Was he upset, yes; but he went to work the next day and did his job to the best of his ablity. Once the merger was final, he get's told he's being reasigined to One Police Plaza. You are not sent to 1PP unless you A. Have someone on the inside or B. Are, literaly, the finest of the finest. The merger was in 95, he got to his "20 and out" in april of 01. The next six years was ether headquaters, or chasing illegal and criminal tow trucks in Forest Hills to the point every tow company in queens was scared of him. He made himself indespencible and was apreicadted by his superiors.

 

You guys want job security? Make yourself look good. Give your all. Who are they more likely to boot? Someone who is cranky and whiney or someone who is productive, honest, courtious to everyone around him/her and always does thier best? Which sounds nicer to you, geting in an unemployment line or geting a cusshy asignment, like being sent to be intervied for TV shows, like this fellow in the video below.

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16848

 

What does this have to do with that silly comment about riots??

 

I smell "deflection"....

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[SubwayGuy]

It's not "silly". I was ignoring your ignorance, I've tried to be civil, but since you can't seem to leave things alone...

 

five years ago was five years ago. this time it's diffrent. Anything you do can't ble blamed on an orgization that is simply trying to protect it's own existence.

 

You people are not the center of the universe, your needs are not more important than the rest of us. You need to put food on your plates, so does everyone else.

 

Why should you get everything you want? When was the last time you ran into harms way to save a life? huh? When? How many times have you done it? Huh? how many?!? Becuase the Police and Fire departments are facing budget cuts, and they do that every day. Are they talking about walking off the job? NO! Maybe it's because they are just more mature or maybe it's becuase they realize that they are not alone in the situation.

 

This isn't just the MTA that's having money problems. It's not just the state, It's not just the Feds. It's the entire God dam planet! Were you not paying attention when the DOW dropped more than half of it's value in the space of a few months? This has nothing to do with who gets paid what in the MTA or has what job. You only keep repeating the lie "The MTA is not broke, just greedy" to yourself to justify your posistion to yourself.

 

I no longer care what anyone else thinks about what I have to say. If I can't speak my mind without getting attacked... What's the point in holding back.

 

They're not getting anything more. In fact, they've been giving back consistently. Their employer (upper management) treats them like shit. They have a right to be upset.

 

Police and fire cannot walk off the job, however public sentiment has been behind the police and fire unions ever since 9/11 so that if they were ever lowballed, the public would side with the union, so those unions have an advantage that TWU does not which is why the city does not screw with them.

 

You've got to slow down and think about WHY "everything" in the whole world is broke. I'll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with working people and EVERYTHING to do with rich guys in suits who made bad decisions yet still inexplicably HAVE a LOT of money.

[RTOMan]

It's not "silly". I was ignoring your ignorance, I've tried to be civil, but since you can't seem to leave things alone...

 

five years ago was five years ago. this time it's diffrent. Anything you do can't ble blamed on an orgization that is simply trying to protect it's own existence.

 

You people are not the center of the universe, your needs are not more important than the rest of us. You need to put food on your plates, so does everyone else.

 

Why should you get everything you want? When was the last time you ran into harms way to save a life? huh? When? How many times have you done it? Huh? how many?!? Becuase the Police and Fire departments are facing budget cuts, and they do that every day. Are they talking about walking off the job? NO! Maybe it's because they are just more mature or maybe it's becuase they realize that they are not alone in the situation.

 

This isn't just the MTA that's having money problems. It's not just the state, It's not just the Feds. It's the entire God dam planet! Were you not paying attention when the DOW dropped more than half of it's value in the space of a few months? This has nothing to do with who gets paid what in the MTA or has what job. You only keep repeating the lie "The MTA is not broke, just greedy" to yourself to justify your posistion to yourself.

 

I no longer care what anyone else thinks about what I have to say. If I can't speak my mind without getting attacked... What's the point in holding back.

 

Whos attacking you? I just said that remark was silly thats all.

 

You just wasted bandwidth for no reason...

 

Im wondering where i said something about the MTA...

 

Do you know who you are replying to???

[RTOMan]

They're not getting anything more. In fact, they've been giving back consistently. Their employer (upper management) treats them like shit. They have a right to be upset.

 

Police and fire cannot walk off the job, however public sentiment has been behind the police and fire unions ever since 9/11 so that if they were ever lowballed, the public would side with the union, so those unions have an advantage that TWU does not which is why the city does not screw with them.

 

You've got to slow down and think about WHY "everything" in the whole world is broke. I'll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with working people and EVERYTHING to do with rich guys in suits who made bad decisions yet still inexplicably HAVE a LOT of money.

 

Im not upset Subway Guy it is what it is. I have no idea where this poster is going really..

[motorman2085]

To leave prime terrorist threat 42nd street turnstile WIDE OPEN without anyone monitoring the area as well as other similiar areas and MTA claim to save money?? How much money is MTA losing from fare evaders? And how much have MTA spend on putting up cameras instead? MTA has made it personal, because they are not doing it to save money, but simply to beat up on their workers, because they know that they can. TWU Union have stupidly given up on the no layoff clause and now the workers are paying the price. Teachers, firefighters, and police officers makes much more in salaries and over-time and Pension, there has yet to be layoffs and pay complaints on them. New York state and every state should just fire all their workers to solve the budget issues? What was the purpose of the Stimulus money for? And MTA has use it to CUT jobs instead of create jobs? The banks and bankers are still making billions of dollars after the bail-out by the public and they are outrage by what an average transit worker is making? All this is bad management decision by MTA and Mr. Walder. MTA and Mr. Walder are asking for a Strike by their mistreatment of their workers, and Union members needs to Strike back to protect themselves from those bad management decision. Unions are actually fighting for ALL US workers because if management can fire workers without cause, then all workers can be fire and replace with cheaper labor or on the whim of management.

[asidrane]

Instead of just criticizing, I would love to hear what you would have done differently in Mr. Walder's shoes. This is clearly a sensitive subject for everyone and is by no means an easy one to navigate. Frankly, the issues are beyond me, so I will refrain from commenting and just read. I think the fact that he has not abandoned the future plans of the system is to be commended. It would have been much easier for him to just sacrifice the long term stability of the MTA to create a short term fix. That would have just delayed the issues and probably made them an issue for someone else.

[RTOMan]

Instead of just criticizing, I would love to hear what you would have done differently in Mr. Walder's shoes. This is clearly a sensitive subject for everyone and is by no means an easy one to navigate. Frankly, the issues are beyond me, so I will refrain from commenting and just read. I think the fact that he has not abandoned the future plans of the system is to be commended. It would have been much easier for him to just sacrifice the long term stability of the MTA to create a short term fix. That would have just delayed the issues and probably made them an issue for someone else.

 

If im correct they was allowed to use 10% of their Federal Funding for operations and that money was a drop in the bucket which could have at least stop the service cuts.

 

It would help to know who you are replying to..

 

Thats what a "quote" feature is used for, see i used it...

[asidrane]

If im correct they was allowed to use 10% of their Federal Funding for operations and that money was a drop in the bucket which could have at least stop the service cuts.

 

It would help to know who you are replying to..

 

Thats what a "quote" feature is used for, see i used it...

 

I was more or less responding to the thread in general. Many people seem to be on the same side of the argument as you are.

 

OK, they could have used the money to prevent the service cuts, but that is just a band-aid on a broken bone, no? Next year they would have been in the same position as they were this year and then what? Divert construction funds again?

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the MTA management has many many issues. That tends to be what happens with appointed officials. No need to be good when the problems will just be the issues for the next guy.

[RTOMan]

Next year they would have been in the same position as they were this year and then what? Divert construction funds again?

 

You know this how?

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the MTA management has many many issues. That tends to be what happens with appointed officials.No need to be good when the problems will just be the issues for the next guy.

 

You have some in charge who have great ideas and want the system to run great, they unfortunately have to take thier orders from those officials.

 

I agree passing the buck seems to be the norm these days.

[asidrane]

You know this how?

 

 

Obviously, the future budgets aren't known to me, but it is clear that the MTA is not flush with cash, nor is the city or the state. I doubt the feds will subsidize the operating budget either. Until revenue can cover operating costs (which I don't see happening any time soon) I think that it would be unwise to not rude the expenses.

 

That being said, I think there are ways to spend money on new tech that would be smarter. For example, the cost to change all the signs makes changing service more costly than meets the eye. Now, instead of arrival boards, the money would have been better spent on electronic service signs on the platform. Want to send the M to 6th ave, no problem, just change the program. Also, this would benefit riders because the sign would simply only need to display the current service (rush/late night/etc) instead of all services. I know that the late night service can be a cause of confusion to riders who do not know the intricate details of the system.

[SubwayGuy]

Obviously, the future budgets aren't known to me, but it is clear that the MTA is not flush with cash, nor is the city or the state. I doubt the feds will subsidize the operating budget either. Until revenue can cover operating costs (which I don't see happening any time soon) I think that it would be unwise to not rude the expenses.

 

That being said, I think there are ways to spend money on new tech that would be smarter. For example, the cost to change all the signs makes changing service more costly than meets the eye. Now, instead of arrival boards, the money would have been better spent on electronic service signs on the platform. Want to send the M to 6th ave, no problem, just change the program. Also, this would benefit riders because the sign would simply only need to display the current service (rush/late night/etc) instead of all services. I know that the late night service can be a cause of confusion to riders who do not know the intricate details of the system.

 

Why do all train buffs just assume that you can build something like this and it will save money?

 

It costs millions of dollars to implement computer technology. Not only that, computer equipment is prone to FREQUENT failures. Which means that instead of paying someone to make announcements, you now pay someone to design a computer system, another person to build the computer system, and a third person to MAINTAIN the computer system which is a high skill job that requires high pay.

 

That doesn't save money, at all.

[asidrane]

Why do all train buffs just assume that you can build something like this and it will save money?

 

It costs millions of dollars to implement computer technology. Not only that, computer equipment is prone to FREQUENT failures. Which means that instead of paying someone to make announcements, you now pay someone to design a computer system, another person to build the computer system, and a third person to MAINTAIN the computer system which is a high skill job that requires high pay.

 

That doesn't save money, at all.

 

Sometimes a little extra money upfront save a lot in the long run. For example, the AC in my office wasn't working. Now, instead of replacing it, the owner chose to repair it because that was cheaper. Then the repairmen came again and again and again. Now, instead of having a new unit we have spent more money to repair an old one that will inevitably break down again.

 

The system I am talking about is not as complex and as much of a maintenance issue as you expect it would be. At least not if it was done properly. Yes, it would cost more than replacing the decals on the signs would have cost, but after enough service cuts we would be seeing a savings.

 

This about how many times you need to rent a tux before it is cheaper to purchase one. Ever found yourself evaluating the value of an all you can eat buffet or a prix fixe menu? Same thing.

[SubwayGuy]

Sometimes a little extra money upfront save a lot in the long run. For example, the AC in my office wasn't working. Now, instead of replacing it, the owner chose to repair it because that was cheaper. Then the repairmen came again and again and again. Now, instead of having a new unit we have spent more money to repair an old one that will inevitably break down again.

 

The system I am talking about is not as complex and as much of a maintenance issue as you expect it would be. At least not if it was done properly. Yes, it would cost more than replacing the decals on the signs would have cost, but after enough service cuts we would be seeing a savings.

 

This about how many times you need to rent a tux before it is cheaper to purchase one. Ever found yourself evaluating the value of an all you can eat buffet or a prix fixe menu? Same thing.

 

And how do you know that? Every piece of new technology to have been ordered by Transit requires frequent maintenance and inspection. What's to say this new system would be maintenance free? It wouldn't. Because nothing is. Everything is subject to wear and tear, and everything breaks.

 

Also, what costs to "fix the current system" are you talking about? It costs relatively little to change signs the every few years that there are service changes. You are talking about implementing a multi million dollar computer system throughout the whole system, which will require maintenance on every one of the signs in 468 subway stations, just so that it can update every couple of years when there is a change to the service pattern. "Just change the program" and who is going to write and install that program? Who's going to continually service all the electronics and display modules required to make a system like that work, even when routes are staying the same? It's a huge cost with no benefit. Does it improve frequency of train service? Does it make for a faster ride? It does none of the above. Why can't people understand this? Everyone has all these ideas on this place for saving money, but all of them actually cost money - both in the short and long term.

[asidrane]

And how do you know that? Every piece of new technology to have been ordered by Transit requires frequent maintenance and inspection. What's to say this new system would be maintenance free? It wouldn't. Because nothing is. Everything is subject to wear and tear, and everything breaks.

 

Also, what costs to "fix the current system" are you talking about? It costs relatively little to change signs the every few years that there are service changes. You are talking about implementing a multi million dollar computer system throughout the whole system, which will require maintenance on every one of the signs in 468 subway stations, just so that it can update every couple of years when there is a change to the service pattern. "Just change the program" and who is going to write and install that program? Who's going to continually service all the electronics and display modules required to make a system like that work, even when routes are staying the same? It's a huge cost with no benefit. Does it improve frequency of train service? Does it make for a faster ride? It does none of the above. Why can't people understand this? Everyone has all these ideas on this place for saving money, but all of them actually cost money - both in the short and long term.

 

Clearly your conjecture trumps mine. I guess we should not even entertain conversations about how to improve since all you are interested in is complaining about your cushy position.

[RTOMan]

Clearly your conjecture trumps mine. I guess we should not even entertain conversations about how to improve since all you are interested in is complaining about your cushy position.

 

What position? In the discussion?

[asidrane]

What position? In the discussion?

 

Union positions. Contrary to what many people seem to write, the union members happen to have a very good thing set up. Yes, some were laid off, but show me an industry where there hasn't been contraction in the last couple years. Show me an industry with better benefits and a lower retirement age.

[RTOMan]

Union positions. Contrary to what many people seem to write, the union members happen to have a very good thing set up. Yes, some were laid off, but show me an industry where there hasn't been contraction in the last couple years. Show me an industry with better benefits and a lower retirement age.

 

How do you know what Job he has?

 

How do you know hes in a Union?

 

How do you know "how" good a thing Union Members have set up?

 

What Industry??

 

You need to clarify some things here...

[asidrane]

How do you know what Job he has?

 

How do you know hes in a Union?

 

How do you know "how" good a thing Union Members have set up?

 

What Industry??

 

You need to clarify some things here...

 

Sorry, you are right, I don't know that he's in a union.

 

Tell me, at what age are TWU members retiring? How much is the out of pocket cost for health coverage? Would you describe said coverage as good?

 

As far as 'what industry' pick any industry you like. The people in finance mentioned elsewhere have had a lot of jobs done away with while the people still with jobs have seen salary reductions. My wife, who works in advertising, hasn't seen even a one cent pay raise in over three years, even though she consistently gets high praise from clients, vendors and coworkers alike.

 

The truth is that all across the country many people are suffering financially along with the economy yet the overwhelming voice pertaining to the TWU is that they should get more. It is just hard for people in the private sector to relate to this sentiment.

[RTOMan]

Tell me, at what age are TWU members retiring? How much is the out of pocket cost for health coverage? Would you describe said coverage as good?

 

You got T/O's down here working in their 60's i know of one whos pushing 70.

 

What you think they all leave @ 55 with a cushy pension?

 

Not the case.

 

The people in finance mentioned elsewhere have had a lot of jobs done away with while the people still with jobs

 

Yeah they play that thing called the "stock market" right?

 

My wife, who works in advertising, hasn't seen even a one cent pay raise in over three years, even though she consistently gets high praise from clients, vendors and coworkers alike.

 

She got a job right? You want me to feel sorry for her when you got people out of work?

 

The truth is that all across the country many people are suffering financially along with the economy yet the overwhelming voice pertaining to the TWU is that they should get more.

 

Due to whom? Big Boys playing with other peoples money and lives see any big Company..

 

You know thier is more than one Union with the right? Are you biased?

 

It is just hard for people in the private sector to relate to this sentiment.

 

I came from the private sector so your point is?

 

Work is work you do what you gotta do. Im not going to worry about what other people or doing nor would i care i didnt before.

[asidrane]

You got T/O's down here working in their 60's i know of one whos pushing 70.

 

What you think they all leave @ 55 with a cushy pension?

 

Not the case.

 

 

 

Yeah they play that thing called the "stock market" right?

 

 

 

She got a job right? You want me to feel sorry for her when you got people out of work?

 

 

 

Due to whom? Big Boys playing with other peoples money and lives see any big Company..

 

You know thier is more than one Union with the right? Are you biased?

 

 

 

I came from the private sector so your point is?

 

Work is work you do what you gotta do. Im not going to worry about what other people or doing nor would i care i didnt before.

 

I'll take your failure to answer any of the questions I asked and your deflection of the points I made to mean that you don't really have a counter to what I said.

 

As far as the multiple unions goes, no I didn't realize there were multiple unions. I was using union as an umbrella term. I will need to do some further research into that issue.