(M) Train Riders See Silver Lining

[Lennyj17]

Ha. Classic. Well said, NX.

 

Oh Please.....Put ur money where your mouth is, since you know so damn much!

[LRG]

A crybaby over what...I'm not losing anything..I'm not a fan of Skip A Stop the way LRG is..It hasn't proved to be anything of a timesaver to me...Im stating the obvious and its some of you dont want to realize what could and will happen if 4 AV gets worse.

 

If Fourth Avenue needs any more help, they'll just make the more frequent. It runs 10 TPH, every six minutes at this moment. All it needs is a slight increase to 12 TPH, every five minutes. The can do it by itself but it needs more trainsets.

 

The (J)/(Z) skip-stop is working...has worked since the 80s and it ain't going anywhere any time soon. Get over yourself and deal with it.

 

Oh Please.....Put ur money where your mouth is, since you know so damn much!

 

Wow, what makes you assume I know so much? I'm just stating the facts.

[Lennyj17]

If Fourth Avenue needs any more help, they'll just make the more frequent. It runs 10 TPH, every six minutes at this moment. All it needs is a slight increase to 12 TPH, every five minutes. The can do it by itself but it needs more trainsets.

 

The (J)/(Z) skip-stop is working...has worked since the 80s and it ain't going anywhere any time soon. Get over yourself and deal with it.

 

again No you can't add more trainsets to the ....Genius.....That will screw with the and on Broadway and QB....Light bulb going off now! 71st just managed to stop the conga lines of trying to turn trains durning the rush...since the is less frequent than the was.

[NX Express]

again No you can't add more trainsets to the ....Genius.....That will screw with the and on Broadway and QB....Light bulb going off now! 71st just managed to stop the conga lines of trying to turn trains durning the rush...since the is less frequent than the was.

 

Screw with the ? Just add a few more 57 Street short-turns.

Screw with the ? 1 or 2 TPH isn't going to hurt too much.

[Lennyj17]

 

 

 

Wow, what makes you assume I know so much? I'm just stating the facts.

 

No you're stating you verison of the facts....and it doesnt matter if its truth or not...

 

if the / is extended by the MTA....Skip a Stop will NOT WORK...you've even so much as admitted this thru you're constent crying about keeping Skip a Stop in place over extending the (J)/(Z)...

 

and I'm telling you....the or the will be extending if 4 AV keeps on crying and forces the MTA's hand...its the simplest, no brainer, least cost effective solution...and the MTA will use it.

[LRG]

again No you can't add more trainsets to the ....Genius.....That will screw with the and on Broadway and QB....Light bulb going off now! 71st just managed to stop the conga lines of trying to turn trains durning the rush...since the is less frequent than the was.

 

The ran 10 TPH, every six minutes, and so does the . The runs every eight minutes. The Queens Boulevard Local used to have 20 TPH and now its down to 18. If you add two extra trains an hour during the rush, it will compensate for the loss of the .

 

The and is not even as frequent as the and were throught the 60th Street tube, since they have some (N)s and (Q)s drop out at 57th Street and reverse back downtown.

 

Also, do you know how long of a route the would be if it went to South Brooklyn???

 

Jeez, I'm certainly glad you don't play any part in Operations and Planning, you'd screw the whole railroad up.

[Lennyj17]

Screw with the ? Just add a few more 57 Street short-turns.

Screw with the ? 1 or 2 TPH isn't going to hurt too much.

 

have you been to 71st and Conti durning the rush.....

 

Both the Q needs cross over to the Local track on B'way 34 or 42nd...if you screw with that by adding more then Broadway will become a CONGA LINE on the Local backing everything up waiting for (Q)'s to cross...

 

plus you're now playing with Astoria residents and they have VERY LOUD MOUTHS and arent afraid to use them since Astoria (Q)'s will need to wait for 57th Street (Q)'s to get out of the way...mean while you still have the increase in ®'s tying everything up....

[LRG]

No you're stating you verison of the facts....and it doesnt matter if its truth or not...

 

if the / is extended by the MTA....Skip a Stop will NOT WORK...you've even so much as admitted this thru you're constent crying about keeping Skip a Stop in place over extending the (J)/(Z)...

 

and I'm telling you....the or the will be extending if 4 AV keeps on crying and forces the MTA's hand...its the simplest, no brainer, least cost effective solution...and the MTA will use it.

 

The and will NEVER head points south of Broad Street, ever.

[Lennyj17]

The ran 10 TPH, every six minutes, and so does the . The runs every eight minutes. The Queens Boulevard Local used to have 20 TPH and now its down to 18. If you add two extra trains an hour during the rush, it will compensate for the loss of the .

 

The and is not even as frequent as the and were throught the 60th Street tube, since they have some (N)s and (Q)s drop out at 57th Street and reverse back downtown.

 

Also, do you know how long of a route the would be if it went to South Brooklyn???

 

Jeez, I'm certainly glad you don't play any part in Operations and Planning, you'd screw the whole railroad up.

 

 

 

OMG - You just not getting this.....WHAT EVER SERVICE starts at Jamaica would only go to Broad still....Whatever Starts at BJ goes to 4 AV...

 

One would have terminate at BJ not both lines, perferable the since is not that much of a fixure in the commuinty...everyone know the most people barely ride a so the would be BJ to 4 AV and the would maintain Jamaica to Broad...either or the I dont care at this point would run on the express from BJ to Marcy.

[Lennyj17]

The and will NEVER head points south of Broad Street, ever.

 

The has been extended in to S BK many times, what are you talking about....and there has always been a Nassau line in South Brooklyn until recently ALWAYS! What makes you think the MTA wont restore that...its Damn near tradition

[NX Express]

For the 10th time:.....

have you been to 71st and Conti durning the rush.....

I've heard of backups, but until the MTA didn't do anything until they ran out of money.

Both the Q needs cross over to the Local track on B'way 34 or 42nd...if you screw with that by adding more then Broadway will become a CONGA LINE on the Local backing everything up waiting for (Q)'s to cross...

 

plus you're now playing with Astoria residents since Astoria (Q)'s will need to wait for 57th Street (Q)'s to get out of the way...mean while you still have the increase in ®'s tying everything up....

Again: THE INCREASED AMOUNT OF TRAINS WOULD MEAN MORE (Q)s WOULD DROP OUT AT 57 Street/7 Avenue. They would run via EXPRESS from 57 to Canal, never intersecting with the . Besides, Astoria terminal is usually jammed up anyway.

[LRG]

The has been extended in to S BK many times, what are you talking about....and there has always been a Nassau line in South Brooklyn until recently ALWAYS! What makes you think the MTA wont restore that...its Damn near tradition

 

I never said that a South Brooklyn connection to Nassau would never happen...I just said that the (J)/(Z) would never be extended because that would break the skip-stop which is DIRELY needed.

 

In addition, the (J)/(Z) is too long to run to South Brooklyn anyway. What I would do is have special trains start out of Broadway Junction and run local via Jamaica and Nassau Street and then as an express in South Brooklyn, whether it goes via the West End, or even the Brighton to Brighton Beach. I've always wondered how Brighton residents felt when their access to Lower Manhattan was cut...the only stops at Canal Street and Grand Street on the ( really isn't considered Lower Manhattan.

[Guest lance25]

Lenny, the last time the was extended into South Brooklyn was during the September 11th contingency plan. The shuttles to Atlantic Av/Prospect Park don't count as they start at Essex St.

 

By the way, the skip-stop obviously does work because if it didn't, it would've went the way of the a long time ago. There was a skip-stop in some form on the Jamaica elevated before they were called the and lines.

 

While I'm not doubting that 4th Avenue needs more local service, why does it have to be the or . There are quite a few unused letters and an infinite amount of numbers that this new service to 9th Avenue could be called.

[Lennyj17]

So we're suppose to

 

- Congest 71st again

- Shaft Astoria rider who will b*** ad nausum because of the loss of service

- Add more service to the entire line when only 4 AV needs the increase

- Or create an entirely new line to help the

 

all to maintain Skip A Stop on the / ....that is truthfully expendable.

 

Once again - for the Millionth time - THE MTA WILL NOT DO THIS with its limited funds and running the risk of pissing off Astoria and Broadway riders...

 

They will take the simplest solution and the line that still have plenty of capacity the (J)/(Z) and run it to 4 AV....I'm even willing to bet on this so much because it just has MTA written all over it.

 

and the MTA will not hesitate to get rid of Skip A Stop if needed....remember the was on the chopping block and still isnt out the woods as far as the MTA is concerned...extending it to 4 AV gives the a reason for remaining....just saying "It provides skip a stop" for 2 hours is not enough.....cutting the now is just cutting service basically...extending the to 4 AV makes it an independent line (all be it still just supplementing 2 lines instead of 1 now) and more people will fight for it because they see what life is like (Mx)-less...

 

You guys love you're skip a stop, I get that....It's my opinion that it doesn't work and isn't essential as a Express would be...ok that's just me.....but Skip A Stop will not work if the or is extend and you guys agree with me on that, which is why your fighting so hard to find alternative to sending the to 4 AV.....

 

The MTA is not going to create a new line.....if they do use another letter to keep it simple its still going to come at the scrafice of the Nassau Line - they have the most capacity available....so might as well just keep it the

[LRG]

The only way skip-stop service would be pulled is if the entire Jamaica Line became express. An express track would have to be built between Broadway Junction and Cypress Hills along Jamaica Avenue...I believe there was a plan to build this bypass track in the 60s (?) but it never came to light.

[Lennyj17]

The only way skip-stop service would be pulled is if the entire Jamaica Line became express. An express track would have to be built between Broadway Junction and Cypress Hills along Jamaica Avenue...I believe there was a plan to build this bypass track in the 60s (?) but it never came to light.

 

So even if or the is extended to 4 AV...you think the MTA will still maintain Skip a stop over opening up the express ?????

 

If so both the and would need to go to 4 AV to keep consistent skip stop and even that's not going to work because the would screw with keeping the (J)/(Z) consistent.

[Lennyj17]

I never said that a South Brooklyn connection to Nassau would never happen...I just said that the (J)/(Z) would never be extended because that would break the skip-stop which is DIRELY needed.

 

In addition, the (J)/(Z) is too long to run to South Brooklyn anyway. What I would do is have special trains start out of Broadway Junction and run local via Jamaica and Nassau Street and then as an express in South Brooklyn, whether it goes via the West End, or even the Brighton to Brighton Beach. I've always wondered how Brighton residents felt when their access to Lower Manhattan was cut...the only stops at Canal Street and Grand Street on the really isn't considered Lower Manhattan.

 

and you're calling me CRAZY....how is the skip a stop direly needed when Nassau lines have the most available capacity of any line????

 

- another 4 AV express is not the problem

 

- you're basically mimicking the outline i had for the 4 AV which is to run local or express from BJ to Marcy and Local along 4 AV terminating at BJ and the runs local or express from BJ to Marcy and Terminates at Broad still.

 

The MTA only kept the over the and the was because no one faught for the and could care less and while Astoria did b*** about the they hushed up once they found out it would be replaced with the ...the wasn't going have a replacement or an increase in service and people bitched like no other and rightfully so...ALL local Nassau lines is too damn long...you need an Express of some sort......

[LRG]

So even if or the is extended to 4 AV...you think the MTA will still maintain Skip a stop over opening up the express ?????

 

If so both the and would need to go to 4 AV to keep consistent skip stop and even that's not going to work because the would screw with keeping the (J)/(Z) consistent.

 

If this "bypass" track was built then there would be no need for skip-stop...the would operate express from Sutphin Boulevard to Broadway Junction, and a stop would have been created at Woodhaven Boulevard for express service. Then the would have continued express to Marcy. You know how much of relief this would give to riders?

 

and you're calling me CRAZY....how is the skip a stop direly needed when Nassau lines have the most available capacity of any line????

 

- another 4 AV express is not the problem

 

- you're basically mimicking the outline i had for the 4 AV which is to run local or express from BJ to Marcy and Local along 4 AV terminating at BJ and the runs local or express from BJ to Marcy and Terminates at Broad still.

 

The MTA only kept the over the and the was because no one faught for the and could care less and while Astoria did b*** about the they hushed up once they found out it would be replaced with the ...the wasn't going have a replacement or an increase in service and people bitched like no other and rightfully so...ALL local Nassau lines is too damn long...you need an Express of some sort......

 

Another reason the (Mx) and were merged was because of the R44 retirement. May I mind you, if the 32s and R42s were retired then there wouldn't be enough R160A1s to cover for the new line.

[SubwayGuy]

And ur probably one of the one who said the (Mx) / would never happen.....so how bout U get over it......If service levels are ever restored the (Mx) will never return.....Middle Village Ridgewood riders are now drunk on one seat midtown service and a good amount of ppl are transfering from the to the at Myrtle instead of the @ essex

 

Ah yes that's right another posting making assumptions about me, face it you're the one crying about the not going to Brooklyn, not me, so apparently you're the one who needs to "get over it". The orange has been a good thing, but that doesn't mean that something that was done as a service CUT to SAVE money (***SAVE*** money! This is a concept that railiens on this board do NOT understand!) is going to lead to a service EXTENSION that will COST money.

 

Skip stop will stay because it works. If you don't like it, tough shit. A lot of people, specifically the ones who matter aka the ones who LIVE along that line, have no problem with it. It's one hour a day.

 

Seems every railien wants every express track ever to be used and back in service for an express service. Even ones with no stops like the Sea Beach and Upper Broadway. Yup, doesn't work that way unless you got a few billion dollars you wanna send over.

[Trainmaster5]

Let me add 2 points. When the proposal was floated to drop service most of us in RTO laughed at the bitching and moaning from the public. First of all there is NO line. It's a train with a different bullet on the signs. Likewise there was NO line. It was a with a bullet. The same amount of trains would run on the line if there was no , as happened on the when the bit the dust. Because the line is equipped for Broadway-Brooklyn Jamaica service from Nassau St to Queens I would guess that the powers that be are not going to screw up 1 line, the , to appease 4th Avenue riders. That would be stupid even for them. My guess is that if THEY, not railfans, think extra service is warranted on the 4th Ave local they would add a few put-ins to/from 9th Ave to Chambers St for the rush hours(7:15-8:15 am and 4:15-5:15 pm) and call it a day. The problem is where do these train crews work after those trips. What line are they assigned to? The , ? If the trains lay up between the rush hours north of Chambers St and the road falls apart who makes those put-ins if line personnel are used? My guess is the Operations and Planning department had that same problem presented to them and each Line Manager potentially affected told them to keep their crews out of that mess. They'll probably go back to the Brighton solution after the cut opened the first time , this time running a few <R> s along 4th Ave somehow.

[SubwayGuy]

Let me add 2 points. When the proposal was floated to drop service most of us in RTO laughed at the bitching and moaning from the public. First of all there is NO line. It's a train with a different bullet on the signs. Likewise there was NO line. It was a with a bullet. The same amount of trains would run on the line if there was no , as happened on the when the bit the dust. Because the line is equipped for Broadway-Brooklyn Jamaica service from Nassau St to Queens I would guess that the powers that be are not going to screw up 1 line, the , to appease 4th Avenue riders. That would be stupid even for them. My guess is that if THEY, not railfans, think extra service is warranted on the 4th Ave local they would add a few put-ins to/from 9th Ave to Chambers St for the rush hours(7:15-8:15 am and 4:15-5:15 pm) and call it a day. The problem is where do these train crews work after those trips. What line are they assigned to? The , ? If the trains lay up between the rush hours north of Chambers St and the road falls apart who makes those put-ins if line personnel are used? My guess is the Operations and Planning department had that same problem presented to them and each Line Manager potentially affected told them to keep their crews out of that mess. They'll probably go back to the Brighton solution after the cut opened the first time , this time running a few <R> s along 4th Ave somehow.

 

Yeah but Trainmaster you're making too much sense for some people here! If it has a separate rollsign reading clearly it is a distinct route that requires unique terminals and a unique pattern of express and local service!

 

In all seriousness though, the only thing I have heard raised is mentioned that some in planning feel that the Nassau St line is underserved between Broad and Canal without (Mx) trains anymore. I mentioned that it might be worthwhile to explore the possibility of having a couple extra trains during the rush that drop out at Bway Junction to ease the lower Manhattan crowding. However I've heard of no complaints or higher than planned crowding along the Jamaica line or the Myrtle line.

[Eric B]

They'll probably be X jobs, doing the one trip, and then working in a yard the rest of their tour. (I heard they were already doing this with some of the (Mx) crews who only had one trip and a lot of extra time in the yard).

[Y2Julio]

What the hell is this talk with new routes over 4th Avenue? Do any of you who are proposing this live along 4th Avenue? I'm happy the (Mx) is gone. The runs good without constant delays due to being held up by an (Mx) train and the same with the . I can actually now catch more express trains now that the is king of the 4th Avenue local. If anything, just add more trains.

[Lennyj17]

Yes you maybe happy...but if you watched NY1 or Chnl 2 you see 4 AV local rider are starting to b**** because of the longer wait and more crowded ®'s and they have the political clout to demand the MTA do something....The MTA is not going to add more ®'s the longest local in the system when only a few stops need the service during the rush....

 

I'm telling you the first order the MTA is going to make is to restore Nassau service to 4 AV...That's the easiest, simplest, and where the most capacity is available for expanding....Watch and See!

 

Again Skip A Stop is not set in stone and if things get worse for the MTA - Skip Stop will be next to go, you can take that to the Bank! and that's with no 4 AV extension and no BJ to Marcy Express it will local the whole way. At least extending the to help the would preserve some form of faster service along the Broadway EL...

 

You guys can stop with the downplay that my theory makes no sense...when we all know it makes perfect sense to the MTA and it could happen...but you guys don't want to lose skip-a-stop well this is going to be a tough pill to sallow but unfortunately 4 AV riders have more clout with the MTA than does Jamaica riders who have a plethora of other services....sorry you know its the truth

 

But hey who's its anyone's guess right? we'll just have to wait an see what happens...

[NX Express]

Yes you maybe happy...but if you watched NY1 or Chnl 2 you see 4 AV local rider are starting to b**** because of the longer wait and more crowded ®'s and they have the political clout to demand the MTA do something....The MTA is not going to add more ®'s the longest local in the system when only a few stops need the service during the rush....

Y2Julio IS a 4 Av rider. I think he would know better than a news agency.