Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.

What Do You Think Of The Former El Lines In Brooklyn?


Recommended Posts

Brooklyn once had these El Lines:

 

*Fulton Street El (From Park Row, Manhattan to Lefferts Avenue, Ozone Park - today the (A) serves the 80th (Hudson) Street to Lefferts Boulevard portion)

 

*Myrtle Avenue El (From Park Row, Manhattan to Metropolitan Avenue, Middle Village - (M) trains still serve the Central Avenue to Metro Avenue portion)

 

*Culver El (Culver El el trains Trains ran Sands Street to Coney Island; Culver El subway trains ran Chambers Street to Coney Island after the Montague Street Tunnel to Nassau Street opened in 1931) (From October 30, 1954 to Sunday May 11, 1975 Culver Shuttle 70(SS) ran Ninth Avenue Lower Level to Ditmas Avenue connecting the 70(B) with the 70(F))

 

*Lexington Avenue El (Park Row, Manhattan or Sands Street, Brooklyn to East New York or Jamaica - Lexington Avenue was served from Franklin to Reid Avenues)

 

*Fifth Avenue El (Park Row, Manhattan or Sands Street, Brooklyn to 65th Street, Bay Ridge - Fifth Avenue was served from Saint Marks Avenue to 36th Street; Third Avenue was served from 40th to 65th Streets - 38th Street was the transition from Fifth to Third)

 

Gradually, the Fulton Street El was trimmed back to Rockaway Avenue, "Broadway Junction", and finally 80th (Hudson) Street and until 1920, the original Brighton Line connected with Fulton Street and used the Fulton Street El to reach Manhattan; In 1920 the Franklin Avenue-Prospect Park portion was converted into today's Franklin Avenue Shuttle; the Myrtle Avenue El was trimmed back to Bridge-Jay Streets Terminal and on October 4, 1969 closed south of Central Avenue station (Myrtle Avenue Upper Level remains but contains no tracks or signals).

 

Fifth Avenue El closed in 1940 and Lexington Avenue El in 1950.

 

What do you think of Brooklyn's former El Lines - would maybe the Culver Shuttle and the Fifth Avenue El be viable today or maybe the Myrtle Avenue El or Lexington Avenue El?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The irony is that, in the last round of reductions, the idea was to have former bus riders take the subway. In the 1950s-1980s, they used the reverse logic-put subway and elevated line riders on the bus.

 

I definitely think that the Myrtle Avenue and Culver Lines should've stayed. Bed-Stuy has frequent buses every few blocks (the B57, B54, B38, B52, and B26), and they all get pretty crowded. If there was a Myrtle Avenue Line, the buses would need to run less frequently, as more people would opt to take the train.

The Culver Line should've stayed because it provided a connection between the West End Line and Culver Line, making it easier to get from the eastern portion of Borough Park to points along the Broadway Line (especially if the Culver Express was the only line serving the portion south of Church Avenue, meaing that 4th Avenue would be bypassed)

 

The Lexington Avenue might've been a little overkill, considering that the Myrtle Avenue Line is nearby.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no use if the Fifth Avenue El remained the way it was. The Fourth Avenue Line ran right next to it. There wasn't much use for some of them but there was use on the Myrtle Av and the Culver (S). Maybe the (MTA) made a mistake by taking some of them down.

 

ppsbclvrshtls.JPG

 

Culver Shuttle

 

img_112790.jpg

 

Fulton Street

 

interior3.jpg

 

Myrtle Av

 

lexave%20copy.jpg

 

Lexington Av

 

img_112820.jpg

 

Fifth Av

 

Gowanus_1.jpg

 

Fifth Av survives as the Gowanus Expressway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wirelessly posted via (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 4.6; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

 

They should have keped the Culver shuttle and the myrtle el to sands st.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If some of you guys don't know the Culver Shuttle was once a whole line running on the Fifth Avenue El. The reason why it became a (S) was because Fifth Av was turned into a highway. Basically a Fifth Avenue El train would run from somewhere around Avenue X traveled north on the Culver Line. Turned north of Ditmas. Stop at around Ninth Av for people to transfer. Then ran along with the West End until it goes up the abandoned ramps that you would see when you are heading out to Manhattan on the (D). There it would run as a El train to Park Road Manhattan. That was before the Myrtle Av El was ripped apart and the tracks across the Brooklyn Bridge was removed. When the Brooklyn Bridge tracks were removed they ran on to Sand Street. When it was removed it ran on to Fulton Street. Then came the conversion of 5th Avenue for the highway. Then they dismantled the Culver Shuttle leaving the little stub at Ditmas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Culver Shuttle also connected to Fourth Avenue (Brooklyn). When the Montague Street Tunnel to Nassau Street opened, Culver Line subway trains began service to Chambers Street.

 

The IND. as originally built ended at Church Avenue. A connection was built connecting the IND. subway at Church Avenue and the B.M.T. el at Ditmas Avenue which opened on October 30, 1954 with (D) trains being the first new Culver Line service, running 205th Street to Coney Island.

 

The Culver Line portion between Fourth and McDonald Avenues was deemed "superfluous" but provided a connection between the West End at Ninth Avenue (Lower Level) and Ditmas Avenue (Outside) with stations at Fort Hamilton Parkway and Thirteenth Avenue and a shuttle service was created which operated between October 30, 1954 and Sunday May 11, 1975.

 

At the end, the 70(SS) Culver Shuttle was down to one track on an ageing structure and averaging about a thousand riders daily so I guess the thinking was to close the el and replace the service with improved B35 bus service was the natural choice.

 

The entire Fifth Avenue El closed on May 31, 1940 and after this date, Culver el trains no longer ran to Park Row, Manhattan or Sands Street, Downtown.

 

On Fifth Avenue, stations were at Saint Marks Avenue, Union Street, and at 3d, 9th, 16th, 20th, 25th, and 36th Streets and on Third Avenue, stations were at 40th, 46th, 52d, 58th, and 65th Streets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was pretty wasteful to tear down the Culver (S). If they never did a train today can run from Ave X up to 4th Av as a local. Then run all the way to Manhattan via Montague Tunnel. It might have even been beneficial to run the (E) down there today as an extension. Rebuilding them today would be expensive and wasteful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Fifth Av survives as the Gowanus Expressway.
Not that brand new structure in the picture. They recently redid the BQE/Gowanus, apparently, and I had forgotten about the issue of what would become of whatever was left of the 3rd Ave. el embedded in the roadway structure.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did anyone here ever ride one of these lines?

 

Fulton El from Rockaway Ave to Lefferts

Myrtle Ave El from Bridge-Jay to Metropolitan

Culver Shuttle from Ditmas to 9th Ave

Jamaica Ave from Eastern Parkway to 168th St

The last 3 I rode at least 20 times each.

The Lexington Ave El was torn down when I was an infant. I watched it from my window in my mom's lap. Funny though, I don't feel old although a previous poster seemed to be implying that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope whoever rode these lines have to be between 40-70 years old, and must be in New York for his/her entire lifetime.

 

Thank you for prematurely putting me in the ground. Quite a few of us are still here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even though I was still a teenager, I got a chance to ride the Myrtle Ave line just before they closed the portion south of Broadway to Downtown Brooklyn. The (Mx)(J) interchange at Broadway and Myrtle Ave is still interesting. I thought it was a mistake to shorten the line then and I still do. I would've loved to ride the Lexington Line, but it was gone years before I was born.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is that, now, the MTA has to run more bus service in Bed-Stuy to make up for the loss of the train, when the train would've been more cost-efficient. The surrounding neighborhood has the density to support rapid transit, and parts of the neighborhood fit the definition of a high poverty area, making rapid transit even more feasable and necessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I definitely think that the Myrtle Avenue... should've stayed. Bed-Stuy has frequent buses every few blocks (the B57, B54, B38, B52, and B26), and they all get pretty crowded. If there was a Myrtle Avenue Line, the buses would need to run less frequently, as more people would opt to take the train.

 

 

:tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup:

 

I think that ALL THE TIME!!! How wonderful the neighborhood commute would be if we didn't have to rely on that god awful B54.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to love riding the Myrtle Ave line as a child; I was almost 9 when it was discontinued. If I remember correctly, it was not torn down right away. It was done in sections for a few years afterwards. The Culver shuttle was interesting as well.

 

The Jamaica el was not that different than the existing portion. I don't think that the tearing down of this section ruined commerce; the decay in the neighborhood predated that especially after the infamous blackout of 1977 in which stores were looted and burned down.

 

I regret not taking time to railfan the 3rd Avenue el70 (8) back in the day.

 

One final thought, how corroded can elevated structures get before they're unsafe? The (2) and (5) look horrible as they come out of 3rd Ave-149th Street.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Incorrect. The Gowanus runs above 3rd Av north of 65th St, and is open-cut below grade between the 2 sides of 7th Av south of 65th St.

 

The 5th Avenue El went over to 3rd Avenue south of 39th Street, so the portion of the BQE between 39th Street and 65th Street is where the 5th Avenue El used to run.

It is like that on some other lines. For example, the (J) is the Jamaica Avenue Line east of Broadway Junction even though it runs over Fulton Street from Broadway Junction to Crescent Street, and the (E)/(F)/(M)/® are the Queens Blvd Line even though they run on Broadway west of Elmhurst Avenue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.