Create your own bus route!

[danig1220]

Just now, Jova42R said:

@danig1220 @engineerboy6561 @WillF40PH @Mnrr6131 @B35 via Church:

Here is my revised Q144:

Q144 SBS -> Q125 SBS

$4 flat fare.

operates every 20 minutes using the Q70's XD40s. Replaces Q70.

map:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CxD8_dh2-6DV8h4Hkr6fCRIk70MBa76O&usp=sharing

Thoughts?

I like the route, however I do not like the route number.

[Jova42R]

4 minutes ago, danig1220 said:

Bx20A - Inwood-207th Street  to Montefiore Hospital  

Via Broadway, Kappock/HHP, 242rd Street, Van Cortlandt Park South, Mosholu Parkway, Bainbridge Avenue
 

Follows normal Bx20 route to 242nd Street/Riverdale Avenue. Turns to Broadway then to Van Cortlandt Park South, to Sedgwick Avenue, Then follows Bx10 to Norwood-205th Street . 

 

 

Is there even demand for a route like this?

If yes, then a slight routing change:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UlJtIOtHmV8xeViUentzQyEEJps1ps_3&usp=sharing

 

[Jova42R]

1 minute ago, danig1220 said:

I like the route, however I do not like the route number.

What's a better one, then? Just keep Q70? Also, why is Q125 bad?

[danig1220]

Just now, Jova42R said:

What's a better one, then? Just keep Q70? Also, why is Q125 bad?

Meh, fuhgeddaboudit

[danig1220]

This is an empty post to replace the tomfoolery I wrote.

Edited March 28, 2020 by danig1220
The post of shame.

[Jova42R]

2 minutes ago, danig1220 said:

It it were to be Q70 then it should go to the areas the Q70 serves.

It does.....

[engineerboy6561]

Here's an idea I had that should boost BxM6 ridership (even though it's at the expense of the people who currently use it); @B35 via Church @Via Garibaldi 8 I'd like your feedback on this if possible; modify the BxM6 route so that it serves Castle Hill and the apartments on Story Av; the route would turn onto Bronx River Ave, then serve Story Av, Soundview Av, Castle Hill Av and the Cross Bronx Expressway before making a one-way loop around Metropolitan Oval, Unionport Av, Tremont Av, Rosedale Av, and Cross Bronx Expressway. The idea would be to connect the Mitchell-Lama towers on Story Av and the middle-class parts of Castle Hill that don't have subway access directly to Midtown, and help the BxM6 broaden its ridership base enough to avoid being perennially on the chopping block. The main cost of this proposal would be that people who live in the Parkchester area would likely see 15-20 minute longer commutes due to the extra stops added and the longer local runtime; that might be worth addressing by running a couple of morning and evening super-expresses along the old route (much the way that the BxM3 has morning trips that start at Bailey Av and express trips that skip all of Sedgwick Av).

I mapped it out on Google Maps for you to look at and critique: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qGurdvBX8Yhn1WyvtRPD49x2RQHXGojF&usp=sharing

Edited March 30, 2020 by engineerboy6561

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 3/27/2020 at 8:00 PM, Jova42R said:

Is there even demand for a route like this?

If yes, then a slight routing change:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UlJtIOtHmV8xeViUentzQyEEJps1ps_3&usp=sharing

 

Waste of a route. The Bx20 is just a feeder route for people along Henry Hudson Parkway to connect to the  train. Nothing more, nothing less.

[OrionVIIonM79]

7 hours ago, engineerboy6561 said:

Here's an idea I had that should boost BxM6 ridership (even though it's at the expense of the people who currently use it); @B35 via Church @Via Garibaldi 8 I'd like your feedback on this if possible; modify the BxM6 route so that it serves Castle Hill and the apartments on Story Av; the route would turn onto Bronx River Ave, then serve Story Av, Soundview Av, Castle Hill Av and the Cross Bronx Expressway before making a one-way loop around Metropolitan Oval, Unionport Av, Tremont Av, Rosedale Av, and Cross Bronx Expressway. The idea would be to connect the Mitchell-Lama towers on Story Av and the middle-class parts of Castle Hill that don't have subway access directly to Midtown, and help the BxM6 broaden its ridership base enough to avoid being perennially on the chopping block. The main cost of this proposal would be that people who live in the Parkchester area would likely see 15-20 minute longer commutes due to the extra stops added and the longer local runtime; that might be worth addressing by running a couple of morning and evening super-expresses along the old route (much the way that the BxM3 has morning trips that start at Bailey Av and express trips that skip all of Sedgwick Av).

I mapped it out on Google Maps for you to look at and critique: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qGurdvBX8Yhn1WyvtRPD49x2RQHXGojF&usp=sharing

Too many stops in the Bronx

[engineerboy6561]

2 hours ago, OrionVIIonM79 said:

Too many stops in the Bronx

Gotcha; there are about 19 stops, which is even with the BxM3 and BxM4; the main difference is that neither the BxM3 nor the BxM4 see a ton of ridership starting all the way up at the northern end of the route (whereas this would basically inherit the BxM6 ridership, which would mean a decent number of people starting all the way from the end of the line). It might make sense to have some of the peak direction trips run via the old route to speed up people's commutes.

[Jova42R]

Here's my Bronx Tram System:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18NHwrP-Y3xCLjkjnhc0VyHPb8ZthWKZr&usp=sharing

Runs Siemens S70.

Runs as a streetcar on the street. The only exception is the West Bronx Line between Tremont Av and Kingsbridge Rd.

@engineerboy6561 @Via Garibaldi 8 @OrionVIIonM79 @danig1220

Edited March 31, 2020 by Jova42R

[Jova42R]

delete

Edited March 31, 2020 by Jova42R

[B35 via Church]

On 3/30/2020 at 1:45 PM, engineerboy6561 said:

Here's an idea I had that should boost BxM6 ridership (even though it's at the expense of the people who currently use it); @B35 via Church @Via Garibaldi 8 I'd like your feedback on this if possible; modify the BxM6 route so that it serves Castle Hill and the apartments on Story Av; the route would turn onto Bronx River Ave, then serve Story Av, Soundview Av, Castle Hill Av and the Cross Bronx Expressway before making a one-way loop around Metropolitan Oval, Unionport Av, Tremont Av, Rosedale Av, and Cross Bronx Expressway. The idea would be to connect the Mitchell-Lama towers on Story Av and the middle-class parts of Castle Hill that don't have subway access directly to Midtown, and help the BxM6 broaden its ridership base enough to avoid being perennially on the chopping block. The main cost of this proposal would be that people who live in the Parkchester area would likely see 15-20 minute longer commutes due to the extra stops added and the longer local runtime; that might be worth addressing by running a couple of morning and evening super-expresses along the old route (much the way that the BxM3 has morning trips that start at Bailey Av and express trips that skip all of Sedgwick Av).

I mapped it out on Google Maps for you to look at and critique: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qGurdvBX8Yhn1WyvtRPD49x2RQHXGojF&usp=sharing

The main thing that sticks out to me about this isn't even having buses run in Soundview - it's the fact that you'd have buses taking Bruckner Blvd. from Bronx River to the RFK bridge approach.... That is going to be an overall ridership deterrent... The portion between Castle Hill (the neighborhood) & Parkchester OTOH I don't have too much of a problem with - although I do think the E. Tremont av. portion of the route would be a dead draw, usage-wise.... I would narrow that one-way loop thing you have going on there by running it down WPR, instead of swinging over to Rosedale....

Quite honestly, if I were to try to make the BxM6 more useful by serving that general pocket of the Bronx you're focusing on, I would not choose Soundview (the neighborhood) - I would choose Clason Pt. instead....

17 hours ago, engineerboy6561 said:

Gotcha; there are about 19 stops, which is even with the BxM3 and BxM4; the main difference is that neither the BxM3 nor the BxM4 see a ton of ridership starting all the way up at the northern end of the route (whereas this would basically inherit the BxM6 ridership, which would mean a decent number of people starting all the way from the end of the line). It might make sense to have some of the peak direction trips run via the old route to speed up people's commutes.

The total number of stops of your route I don't see as being an issue....

On 3/27/2020 at 7:50 PM, Jova42R said:

@danig1220 @engineerboy6561 @WillF40PH @Mnrr6131 @B35 via Church:

Here is my revised Q144:

Q144 SBS -> Q125 SBS

$4 flat fare.

operates every 20 minutes using the Q70's XD40s. Replaces Q70.

map: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CxD8_dh2-6DV8h4Hkr6fCRIk70MBa76O&usp=sharing

Thoughts?

You say this is a revised version... Not sure what your original version entailed, but this rendition of the thing is simply too meandrous/indirect in Manhattan & there's too much wasted mileage in Queens....

Manhattan routing comes off as being rather random; no clear target riderbase, like you're grasping at straws..... On the Queens end, to have it backtracking from LIRR Woodside to (get back on) the BQE, to then take it down to the LIE, for the end goal of accessing the upper roadway of the Queensborough bridge, is again, wasteful.... You aren't going to get much of anyone to pay a local fare for something like this, let alone an added buck 25....

Edited March 31, 2020 by B35 via Church

[engineerboy6561]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

The main thing that sticks out to me about this isn't even having buses run in Soundview - it's the fact that you'd have buses taking Bruckner Blvd. from Bronx River to the RFK bridge approach.... That is going to be an overall ridership deterrent... The portion between Castle Hill (the neighborhood) & Parkchester OTOH I don't have too much of a problem with - although I do think the E. Tremont av. portion of the route would be a dead draw, usage-wise.... I would narrow that one-way loop thing you have going on there by running it down WPR, instead of swinging over to Rosedale....

Gotcha; the Bruckner Blvd thing is an accident on Google Maps; the bus is supposed to get on the highway at the Bronx River Rd entrance just past the Boynton apartments. I left the Rosedale Av loop there mostly to avoid cutting service to people who get the BxM6 at the Rosedale Av stop; then again if nobody's picking the bus up there there's not really any point in keeping the stop and cutting the loop back to WPR makes more sense.

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Quite honestly, if I were to try to make the BxM6 more useful by serving that general pocket of the Bronx you're focusing on, I would not choose Soundview (the neighborhood) - I would choose Clason Pt. instead....

That makes a lot of sense, since as near as I can tell Clason Point is where the money is; the question is whether it makes sense to try to capture a bit more of that crowd by running on Lacombe Av, or even deviating down to O'Brien Ave to hit the heart of that neighborhood. Honestly, if there weren't the issue of the BxM6 and the NYC Ferry weren't a thing it would make a lot of sense to just run a new route from Clason Point Park to downtown via Soundview Av/Story Av/Bronx River Rd/Bruckner Expwy.

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

The total number of stops of your route I don't see as being an issue....

That's good; the runtime is a bit long, but if most people who take the express bus in are looking for a comfortable/premium ride and don't mind some extra time then having a 65-minute runtime from 23 St to Parkchester isn't the end of the world.

[danig1220]

X45-My kitchen to my bed

X45A- My bed to the bathroom

 

Do not ask any questions about how it will fit.

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 3/30/2020 at 1:45 PM, engineerboy6561 said:

Here's an idea I had that should boost BxM6 ridership (even though it's at the expense of the people who currently use it); @B35 via Church @Via Garibaldi 8 I'd like your feedback on this if possible; modify the BxM6 route so that it serves Castle Hill and the apartments on Story Av; the route would turn onto Bronx River Ave, then serve Story Av, Soundview Av, Castle Hill Av and the Cross Bronx Expressway before making a one-way loop around Metropolitan Oval, Unionport Av, Tremont Av, Rosedale Av, and Cross Bronx Expressway. The idea would be to connect the Mitchell-Lama towers on Story Av and the middle-class parts of Castle Hill that don't have subway access directly to Midtown, and help the BxM6 broaden its ridership base enough to avoid being perennially on the chopping block. The main cost of this proposal would be that people who live in the Parkchester area would likely see 15-20 minute longer commutes due to the extra stops added and the longer local runtime; that might be worth addressing by running a couple of morning and evening super-expresses along the old route (much the way that the BxM3 has morning trips that start at Bailey Av and express trips that skip all of Sedgwick Av).

I mapped it out on Google Maps for you to look at and critique: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qGurdvBX8Yhn1WyvtRPD49x2RQHXGojF&usp=sharing

There's a reason that the BxM6 only makes three stops in the Bronx. It is there to get people that live in the large Parkchester complex to Manhattan quickly, faster than the  train, which it does when traffic isn't too bad. With the first two stops, the bus is usually quite crowded. The issue isn't the amount of stops because the first two stops serve two different areas of the large housing complex. The issue is the cost. The housing prices in Parkchester have shot up, as has the cost of the express bus, which is now $6.75 each way or $13.50 round trip. That means more people using the subway which is almost three times cheaper. I use the BxM6 for extended periods of time, as I conduct business in Parkchester and see who rides. Ridership is never horrible, but has declined compared to where it was years ago.

[danig1220]

On 3/31/2020 at 6:28 PM, danig1220 said:

X45-My kitchen to my bed

X45A- My bed to the bathroom

X46- My bathroom-bed-kitchen loop

Do not ask any questions about how it will fit.

 

 

Demand: Me

Bus model: My two feet

Stops

[danig1220]

X47 - Woodlawn to Coney Island (NY Aquarium) (Summer Special, all hours, $3.75 fare)

X47A - Riverdale to Coney Island (New York Aquarium) (Summer Special, $3.75 fare)

X47: via Katonah Avenue, Bainbridge Avenue, Grand Concourse, Major Deegan Expressway, FDR Drive to Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, Surf Avenue

(No stops between 138/Grand Concourse and Stilwell/Surf Avenues)

 

X47A: via Riverdale Avenue/HHP, Broadway (Manhattan), HHP to West Side Highway, Hugh Carey Tunnel, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, 

(No stops between 207/Isham Streets and Surf/Stillwell Avenues)

[Lex]

2 hours ago, danig1220 said:

X47 - Woodlawn to Coney Island (NY Aquarium) (Summer Special, all hours, $3.75 fare)

X47A - Riverdale to Coney Island (New York Aquarium) (Summer Special, $3.75 fare)

X47: via Katonah Avenue, Bainbridge Avenue, Grand Concourse, Major Deegan Expressway, FDR Drive to Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, Surf Avenue

(No stops between 138/Grand Concourse and Stilwell/Surf Avenues)

 

X47A: via Riverdale Avenue/HHP, Broadway (Manhattan), HHP to West Side Highway, Hugh Carey Tunnel, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, 

(No stops between 207/Isham Streets and Surf/Stillwell Avenues)

This is a joke, right?

[Jova42R]

9 hours ago, danig1220 said:

X47 - Woodlawn to Coney Island (NY Aquarium) (Summer Special, all hours, $3.75 fare)

X47A - Riverdale to Coney Island (New York Aquarium) (Summer Special, $3.75 fare)

X47: via Katonah Avenue, Bainbridge Avenue, Grand Concourse, Major Deegan Expressway, FDR Drive to Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, Surf Avenue

(No stops between 138/Grand Concourse and Stilwell/Surf Avenues)

 

X47A: via Riverdale Avenue/HHP, Broadway (Manhattan), HHP to West Side Highway, Hugh Carey Tunnel, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, 

(No stops between 207/Isham Streets and Surf/Stillwell Avenues)

I think that there is zero demand for this...

[OrionVIIonM79]

9 hours ago, danig1220 said:

X47 - Woodlawn to Coney Island (NY Aquarium) (Summer Special, all hours, $3.75 fare)

X47A - Riverdale to Coney Island (New York Aquarium) (Summer Special, $3.75 fare)

X47: via Katonah Avenue, Bainbridge Avenue, Grand Concourse, Major Deegan Expressway, FDR Drive to Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, Surf Avenue

(No stops between 138/Grand Concourse and Stilwell/Surf Avenues)

 

X47A: via Riverdale Avenue/HHP, Broadway (Manhattan), HHP to West Side Highway, Hugh Carey Tunnel, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, 

(No stops between 207/Isham Streets and Surf/Stillwell Avenues)

Where is the demand for this 

[danig1220]

21 hours ago, danig1220 said:

X47 - Woodlawn to Coney Island (NY Aquarium) (Summer Special, all hours, $3.75 fare)

X47A - Riverdale to Coney Island (New York Aquarium) (Summer Special, $3.75 fare)

X47: via Katonah Avenue, Bainbridge Avenue, Grand Concourse, Major Deegan Expressway, FDR Drive to Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, Surf Avenue

(No stops between 138/Grand Concourse and Stilwell/Surf Avenues)

 

X47A: via Riverdale Avenue/HHP, Broadway (Manhattan), HHP to West Side Highway, Hugh Carey Tunnel, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Belt Parkway, 

(No stops between 207/Isham Streets and Surf/Stillwell Avenues)

Okay then, I do admit that this is one of my fantasy routes, and considering the subway can do it faster I guess there will be no demand considering that the subway can do it perfectly. I apologise for thinking about this.

[engineerboy6561]

43 minutes ago, danig1220 said:

Okay then, I do admit that this is one of my fantasy routes, and considering the subway can do it faster I guess there will be no demand considering that the subway can do it perfectly. I apologise for thinking about this.

In general, when you're trying to design routes you want to think about where the people it stops near are going, and whether your route is competitive with existing ways of getting them there (in terms of time, comfort and proximity mostly). For instance, a local bus line serving a bunch of neighborhoods and a subway is intended to connect people moving within and between those neighborhoods, and from those neighborhoods to the subway. Most local buses follow that pattern.

A limited-stop service is paired up with a local service when demand is high and corridors are long; that way you mostly separate people traveling within different areas (who take the local bus) from people traveling between those areas (who take the limited). A decent example I'd use for that would be the Q20A/B and the Q44; if you're looking to go from Jamaica to 75 Av or 77 Av it doesn't really matter whether you get the Q20 or the Q44, and in fact if you're right next to a local stop it probably makes more sense to just get the 20 instead of walking down to the 44 stop, riding the 44, and then walking from the closest 44 stop to your destination. However, if I'm going from Jamaica to the condos on 26 Av, the runtime on the Q20 is a lot longer so I'm better off on the 44. Where the dividing line between local and limited trip lengths lands depends a lot on how you space the stops on the limited-stop service. Space them close enough together and the difference between local and limited services vanishes and everyone takes whatever comes first. Space them too far apart and not enough people have both ends of their trip on the corridor close enough to a limited stop to use the limited stop bus, and you run a lot of empty limiteds.

Express buses are a special case of limited-stop bus; instead of serving people moving between any subset of the neighborhoods the line passes through they serve everyone moving between two different areas that are far enough apart to merit a nonstop segment. They work well for significantly fewer combinations of start and end points than locals and limiteds. To add some back of the envelope math here, a limited-stop bus serving six neighborhoods can accommodate trips between any two of them, which means you have 6 choose 2 or 30 possible trip classes on the bus. If I replace 3 of these neighborhoods with express segments and add the standard rule about express buses picking up on one end of the nonstop segment and dropping off on the other there are only two possible trip combinations (the third, between the two neighborhoods on the same side of the highway segment, is forbidden). That's why you only see them running to and from Midtown and Downtown; enough people work down there and live far from them that for most reasonably well to do neighborhoods I could find 3-400 people who would ride a bus from that neighborhood to Midtown or Downtown; you don't get that much outside those spots. The reason the 91 to Playland works (which I'm pretty sure is what your X47 is modeled on) is because that's maybe a 45-minute ride from Yonkers to New Rochelle plus 20 mins on the highway; it also goes through basically all the neighborhoods in lower Westchester where people can't afford a car or the MNR fare to Rye, and so it does well). The X47 would likely be 2 hours plus end to end, and is competing with the that's 2.75 and faster.

Edited April 3, 2020 by engineerboy6561

[Jova42R]

Here is my BRT proposal for NYC:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1j_wlFJAcmGKzZe-YF-FgEIqqDfz_58NC&usp=sharing

Thoughts @engineerboy6561 @danig1220 @OrionVIIonM79 @Lex?

[OrionVIIonM79]

12 hours ago, Jova42R said:

Here is my BRT proposal for NYC:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1j_wlFJAcmGKzZe-YF-FgEIqqDfz_58NC&usp=sharing

Thoughts @engineerboy6561 @danig1220 @OrionVIIonM79 @Lex?

Not trying to be rude here, but is there really a point? Most would have no ridership and also it is expensive. You have to order the trolleys, place the rails, etc. Overall, I just think it’s not worth it. Again, not trying to be rude.