Kacie Jane's Fantasy Map

[Alargule]

@ Kacie Jane: I'd really love to see a track map of your subway fantasy some day. :cool:

[BJSm]

The super-express bypasses Queens Plaza and stops at Queensbridge–21 Street—always. Running the super-express also means it becomes the Broadway express.

 

Err... why? It seems like it could just as easily be connected to the main express tracks north of Queens Plaza.

[Kacie Jane]

Because the super-express tracks (in real life) have always been planned to connect with 63rd Street. IIRC, it's more or less the reason the 63rd Street tunnels exist. To connect 63rd to the new tracks, you'd simply have to have them diverge somewhere after 21st, and then just pass under the Queens Blvd line. To connect it with QBL, you'd have to shoehorn it in next to the connection to 63rd Street.

 

Would it be possible? Of course, maybe especially so in comparison to some of the other construction I have planned. But this way just seemed to make the most sense.

 

Plus, I'm not sure giving people a way to get from Jackson Heights to 21st-Queensbridge is terribly vital. They'd still have access to Queens Plaza (and Queensboro Plaza via the ), and after all, for the first 15 years they had a station, there weren't connections from Queensbridge to anywhere else in Queens.

[CenSin]

Err... why? It seems like it could just as easily be connected to the main express tracks north of Queens Plaza.

I doubt there is room for another connection in any direction around Queens Plaza unless it's going to connect upwards east of Queens Plaza to a briefly elevated line that plunges underground again or runs alongside the LIRR. The area is already crowded by connections north and south of Queens Plaza and I don't see any way to connect anything else to the express tracks other than a ramp up to the surface just west of the 63 Street connection.

[E Local]

I like this version of it, but what happened to the rest of the 2nd avenue subway? you could add it from the Bronx to south ferry. the 2nd avenue subway could handle 3 services north of 72 street.

[TwoTimer]

The reason there's so many responses is cause this map just utilizes the current or near future infrastructure and isn't pure "out there" by building expansive new tunnels anywhere and everywhere. But I would have left the normal and just put the back to Continental.

[Alargule]

The reason there's so many responses is cause this map just utilizes the current or near future infrastructure and isn't pure "out there" by building expansive new tunnels anywhere and everywhere.

 

Agreed. I think it includes some much needed infrastructure that also has a good chance of being realized in the mid-term future.

And of course, it's good to see that making up fantasy maps isn't purely a men's hobby...

[Eric]

I really do like this map and the ideas it has, but that blue and lines are just far too long; even with the running express everywhere, the Rockaways will surely slow it down by a lot.

[Kacie Jane]

@ Kacie Jane: I'd really love to see a track map of your subway fantasy some day. :cool:

 

I've started working on the next version of the map, but it's a lot of work, so I might take breaks in between and post up some track maps in the meantime.

 

I like this version of it, but what happened to the rest of the 2nd avenue subway? you could add it from the Bronx to south ferry. the 2nd avenue subway could handle 3 services north of 72 street.

 

Again, this was just phase I of my map (which happened to coincide with Phases 1 & 2 of the SAS). The reason I did it this way is because Phase I was what I could squeeze onto Calgano's map without editing it drastically. Adding new lines to downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn requires spreading everything out in order to do it legibly. On the next map, the will be joined by two lines running the full length of the Second Avenue line.

 

The reason there's so many responses is cause this map just utilizes the current or near future infrastructure and isn't pure "out there" by building expansive new tunnels anywhere and everywhere. But I would have left the normal and just put the back to Continental.

 

The only reason I have the and "switched" is because otherwise I'd have the terminating at Court Square, and also stopping at the 23rd/Ely platforms going both directions. I figured having a station where you could transfer from the to the would be less than ideal.

[Alargule]

I've started working on the next version of the map, but it's a lot of work, so I might take breaks in between and post up some track maps in the meantime.

 

That'd be great!

[BJSm]

The only reason I have the and "switched" is because otherwise I'd have the terminating at Court Square, and also stopping at the 23rd/Ely platforms going both directions. I figured having a station where you could transfer from the to the would be less than ideal.

 

Maybe you could terminate the at Greenpoint Ave, then? I like your solution better, though.

[TOURQuarterback12]

What made you have the run from 71 Continental stratight to 21 Queensbridge super express? Its not like there is possibly a track down there is there?

[Tokkemon]

What made you have the run from 71 Continental stratight to 21 Queensbridge super express? Its not like there is possibly a track down there is there?

 

I believe its an old plan from the 70s to have the super-express run on the LIRR tracks direct to Jamaica.

 

Personally, I think its a little silly since the LIRR already serves that purpose, at a premium, I might add. It makes more sense to just leave it to the commuter trains.

[Kacie Jane]

Correctamundo. Well, direct to Forest Hills anyway. I then have it skipping Union Turnpike as well. (The super-express tracks would be on a lower level at 71st/Continental, so I figured it would make the most sense to have them stay below the Jamaica Yard tracks, then merge with the yard tracks and onto the Queens Boulevard line, which puts it beyond Union Turnpike.)

 

I see your point calling it a bit silly, but the point of it wouldn't be to compete with the LIRR, just to increase capacity/relieve crowding on Queens Boulevard. People willing to pay for the LIRR still would because the trains are more spacious and comfortable, faster, and wouldn't have to stop at all the stations between Herald Square and Queensbridge.

[CenSin]

Correctamundo. Well, direct to Forest Hills anyway. I then have it skipping Union Turnpike as well. (The super-express tracks would be on a lower level at 71st/Continental, so I figured it would make the most sense to have them stay below the Jamaica Yard tracks, then merge with the yard tracks and onto the Queens Boulevard line, which puts it beyond Union Turnpike.)

 

I see your point calling it a bit silly, but the point of it wouldn't be to compete with the LIRR, just to increase capacity/relieve crowding on Queens Boulevard. People willing to pay for the LIRR still would because the trains are more spacious and comfortable, faster, and wouldn't have to stop at all the stations between Herald Square and Queensbridge.

Also, it makes the most sense to merge trains east of Union Turnpike or connect it to the Archer Avenue extension. I see both as a more viable path since the infrastructure can be modified more readily than forcing a connector in (like they did with the 63 Street connector by displacing the local tracks). For former to work though, they would need an additional express service to replace the service that runs super-express.

 

See here: http://images.nycsubway.org/trackmap/bigqueens2.png

[Kacie Jane]

Since you posted a link to the track maps, I took that as an inspiration to post my first "fantasy track map"... B)

 

 

Not too much different with this, basically just the super express tracks added in to visualize what we're talking about here. Basically, Queens Boulevard in the vicinity of Jamaica Yard would be three levels. The level closest to the surface (Level 1) would be the current Queens Blvd line, completely unchanged. Level 2 would be the layups for the local trains () and the yard access tracks, again completely unchanged, except with maybe some minor alignment tweaks on the eastern side. Level 3 would be the super-express tracks.

 

Level 1 isn't shown on this map (but I left the labels for the invisible stations for reference), Level 2 is in solid lines, and level 3 in dashed lines.

[LRG]

No train? B)

[Kacie Jane]

Sorry, no . To be honest, I really like the idea Broadway-Brooklyn/Midtown connection. Keeping the gave me headaches though -- took me a while to decide how to send something else down to Brooklyn to be the Culver local (since it couldn't be a third 6th Avenue local).

 

My next map will repurpose the letter, and probably also have a train running the old route - but not the V. No spoilers though.

[TOURQuarterback12]

The Subway running into the Forest Hills LIRR station would be everybody's newest favorite station. haha

[TwoTimer]

The Subway running into the Forest Hills LIRR station would be everybody's newest favorite station. haha

 

Its like when you pulling into Newark Penn Station to see the Path stuff across the platforms, always cool when commuter and subway trains share a platform facility.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I believe its an old plan from the 70s to have the super-express run on the LIRR tracks direct to Jamaica.

 

Personally, I think its a little silly since the LIRR already serves that purpose, at a premium, I might add. It makes more sense to just leave it to the commuter trains.

 

I disagree. Ride an or train in Queens during rush hours and you'll see why a Queens Super Express subway service is needed.

[Kacie Jane]

I'm probably about halfway through the next version of my fantasy map - I have the new lines done in Manhattan, Bronx and most of Queens... So I figured I'd post a couple more track maps like I said I would. These are for either end of the new 4-track Montague St tunnel. (Of course, keep in mind that this is a fantasy map, and I don't pretend to know how feasible this would be. )

 

 

Also, here's another link to what I think is the final version of my Stage I map. I moved the back to Astoria, but mainly this just fixes a lot of things that I should have fixed before (a couple of H's and B's left where they weren't supposed to be) and just pretties it up a tiny bit more. http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/4860/finalstagei.png

[Alargule]

If I may suggest: quadruple-tracking a river tunnel will be very expensive if you're planning on building an additional track on either side of the existing tunnel structure. In effect, you'd be constructing two additional tunnels.

You might consider a new two-track tunnel for the extended Eighth Ave local trains south of the existing Montague St tunnel. That will also eliminate the problem you currently have with the connection of the Montague St tunnel to the Nassau St line.

I don't think there's a need for an extra track connection from the extended Eighth Ave local tunnel to the current Montague St tunnel - DeKalb Ave line, so that would make things alot easier on the Brooklyn side of the tunnel as well.

[CenSin]

I don't know if it's true, but I believe the 8 Avenue World Trade Center tracks are already very close to the Broadway tracks and at a similar grade. There won't be enough room for the tracks to descend below it.

[Kacie Jane]

If I may suggest: quadruple-tracking a river tunnel will be very expensive if you're planning on building an additional track on either side of the existing tunnel structure. In effect, you'd be constructing two additional tunnels.

 

If it would be significantly cheaper, Whitehall Street could instead be built as a 2-level station the way I have Rector Street. Then the 8th Avenue tracks could ascend on the south side of the Broadway tracks (as opposed to on both sides) to cross the river. Then you're right, I don't really need a connection from 8th Avenue to DeKalb, and I'd just have the come into the new tracks after it splits from the .

 

I didn't really mean to imply that I had a problem with the Nassau Street line -- even doing this I'd still have capacity issues with the filling a two-track tunnel. On my next map, Nassau Street (as part of the Second Avenue Line) would get a new tunnel to Red Hook and Staten Island anyway, so I wasn't too concerned with leaving room for bringing back the (Mx).

 

I don't know if it's true, but I believe the 8 Avenue World Trade Center tracks are already very close to the Broadway tracks and at a similar grade. There won't be enough room for the tracks to descend below it.

 

If that is an issue, then the alternate would be to eliminate the WTC station (giving the 8th Avenue trains more room to descend), and have them stop at Cortlandt Street instead.