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My First Fantasy Map

Eric

By Eric,
in New York City Subway

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Eric

Eric 1

Posted
Posted

Here's my first attempt at a fantasy map, based off Calcagno's current design.

 

2573nkg.jpg

 

Here are the service changes:

Creation of the (T), running from 125th and Lexington to Hanover Sq.

Movement of the (Q) to the Second Av line, including connecting with the (F) at 63rd and Lex.

Extension of the (7)/<7> in both directions, to Bell Blvd in Queens and to 14th St and 10th Av in Manhattan.

Westward expansion of the (L) to meet up with the newly-extended (7)/<7> at 10th Av.

Full-time extension of the (C) to Ozone Park, making it unnecessary for the (A) to run there anymore. Additionally, on weekends, the (C) will run as a Euclid-Lefferts shuttle to ensure that Ozone Park is served.

Full-time extension of the (G) to Coney Island, allowing the (F) to run as a Culver express.

Creation of a yellow (S) from 57th St and 7th Av to Astoria to fill the hole left by the (Q) on weekdays only.

 

Please provide feedback and suggestions as to what I could add!

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CenSin

CenSin 3,408

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How does the yellow S run while the (Q) is connected to 2 Avenue? Also, there are no express tracks at Neptune Avenue on the Culver line and southbound (F) trains can skip Avenue X, but not northbound ones. This is assuming your changes are conservative enough that it's not radically different than what the system is in real life.

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Guest lance25

Guest lance25

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The (G) isn't needed past Church Av because 1) the (F) can't run full express service south of Church Av, 2) local Culver riders wouldn't appreciate having to use the (G) which doesn't go anywhere to transfer to the (F) in order to get to Manhattan and 3) I don't believe that Coney Island can handle five different lines running there at all times.

 

Anyone who tries to extend the (C) to Lefferts would probably get run out of town. It doesn't matter how many trains run through there, the passengers will bail it for the (A) at Rockaway Blvd or Euclid Av.

 

As for the yellow (S), I'd simply resurrect the (W) to Whitehall and run pre-6/28 service on Broadway.

 

All in all, this is a good start, but right now, outside of Second Ave and the (7) line extension, there really isn't much that's been changed. If I were you, I'd extend the Hillside and Archer Ave lines toward eastern Queens, maybe extend Nostrand Ave to Kings Plaza. Just my two cents.

 

P.S. Welcome to the forums.

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Eric

Eric 1

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How does the yellow S run while the (Q) is connected to 2 Avenue? Also, there are no express tracks at Neptune Avenue on the Culver line and southbound (F) trains can skip Avenue X, but not northbound ones. This is assuming your changes are conservative enough that it's not radically different than what the system is in real life.

 

Putting it to 57th/7th was just to create a placeholder for the gap in service. I'd consider making it the (W) again and sending it to Whitehall, but, unless the (N) returns to Broadway express, which the (MTA) doesn't seem to want, then...I'd have to figure out how to fit the new S in. Also, in the next update, I'll make sure to not have Culver express past Kings Highway, so the (F)/(G) will run together between there and Coney Island.

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NX Express

NX Express 292

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Critique time:

-The (G) is not needed south of Church, at most south of Kings Highway. It would be empty, and Coney Island cannot handle two trains on one platform.

-The Yellow S would completely jam up the Broadway Line by terminating at 57/7. Also, it would be empty because most Astoria riders need Broadway proper for the most part.

-The (Q) should always skip 49 Street if it goes to 2 Avenue.

-Your service guide says that the (Q) goes to Ditmars.

-The (C) to Lefferts is insufficient and would empty out at Rockaway Bl.

Suggestions:

-Re-extend the (A) to Lefferts. (If you wish, you can call it a (K) to avoid confusion).

-Extend the (F) to Springfield Bl

-Extend the (2)(5) to Kings Plaza.

-Extend the (4) via a new Utica Avenue subway to Kings Plaza.

-Triboro RX (http://transit.frumin.net/trx/TriboroRX)

-A drastic reworking with only minor construction needed:

 

  • Connect the Nassau Street tracks to the Broadway Local tracks (Bowery--->Connection--->Prince Street)
  • Reroute the (M) train via Broadway to Astoria/Ditmars, and eliminate the yellow S.
  • The QBL and 6 Av segment of the (M) would be replaced by a (V), which would go to Kings Highway in Brooklyn.
  • Cut the (G) back to Church Av.
  • The (N) would become Broadway Express.
  • (J)(Z)(Q)(R) service would operate normally.

 

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Tokkemon

Tokkemon 448

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-The (C) to Lefferts is insufficient and would empty out at Rockaway Bl.

-Re-extend the (A) to Lefferts. (If you wish, you can call it a (K) to avoid confusion).

 

 

What is so wrong about that? Why can't the (C) riders transfer to the (A) at Rockaway or Euclid if they want an express train? It's the same as when the (4)/(5)/(6) are local in the Bronx where the (6) is the local train while the other two run express south of 125th St (roughly). The (6) train people transfer to the (4) or (5). It seems to work out just fine there. Besides, the Leffrets extension is only 3 stations, not an entire line, so it would hardly make a difference in terms of capacity. The reason the (C) is so underused is because it isn't used effectively IMO. The (A) automatically takes all the overload because it runs further than the (C) at both ends of the line.

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Eric

Eric 1

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Critique time:

-The (G) is not needed south of Church, at most south of Kings Highway. It would be empty, and Coney Island cannot handle two trains on one platform.

-The Yellow S would completely jam up the Broadway Line by terminating at 57/7. Also, it would be empty because most Astoria riders need Broadway proper for the most part.

-The (Q) should always skip 49 Street if it goes to 2 Avenue.

-Your service guide says that the (Q) goes to Ditmars.

-The (C) to Lefferts is insufficient and would empty out at Rockaway Bl.

Suggestions:

-Re-extend the (A) to Lefferts. (If you wish, you can call it a (K) to avoid confusion).

-Extend the (F) to Springfield Bl

-Extend the (2)(5) to Kings Plaza.

-Extend the (4) via a new Utica Avenue subway to Kings Plaza.

-Triboro RX (http://transit.frumin.net/trx/TriboroRX)

-A drastic reworking with only minor construction needed:

 

  • Connect the Nassau Street tracks to the Broadway Local tracks (Bowery--->Connection--->Prince Street)

  • Reroute the (M) train via Broadway to Astoria/Ditmars, and eliminate the yellow S.

  • The QBL and 6 Av segment of the (M) would be replaced by a (V), which would go to Kings Highway in Brooklyn.

  • Cut the (G) back to Church Av.

  • The (N) would become Broadway Express.

  • (J)(Z)(Q)(R) service would operate normally.

 

 

Would a (K) express from perhaps 42nd/8th to Lefferts be plausible? Also, where do you suggest I merge the M to Broadway? At Herald Sq?

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mark1447

mark1447 685

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Heres something:

 

Add 2nd Avenue Subway, extend it via 3rd Avenue the Bronx, then after Fordham Road send it via Webster Avenue to Gun Hill Road and continue across Gun Hill Road and have it run to Bay Plaza or Section 5 of Co-op City or even City Island.

 

And it would be nice to even push it via 5th Avenue Brooklyn or something and have it head to SI and connect with a SIRTOA station. But imaginations lol

 

But not bad of course! Nice addon!

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NX Express

NX Express 292

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What is so wrong about that? Why can't the (C) riders transfer to the (A) at Rockaway or Euclid if they want an express train? It's the same as when the (4)/(5)/(6) are local in the Bronx where the (6) is the local train while the other two run express south of 125th St (roughly). The (6) train people transfer to the (4) or (5). It seems to work out just fine there. Besides, the Leffrets extension is only 3 stations, not an entire line, so it would hardly make a difference in terms of capacity. The reason the (C) is so underused is because it isn't used effectively IMO. The (A) automatically takes all the overload because it runs further than the (C) at both ends of the line.

ALL the Lefferts riders would jump off the (C) and pile onto the (A), which would make the (C) trains empty anyway.

Would a (K) express from perhaps 42nd/8th to Lefferts be plausible?

The (K) would have nowhere to turn around at 42nd/8th. Instead, I was thinking somewhere near 168 Street...

Also, where do you suggest I merge the M to Broadway? At Herald Sq?

I answered this before:

Connect the Nassau Street tracks to the Broadway Local tracks (Bowery--->Connection--->Prince Street)

BTW, Herald Sq does not have a connection between the 6 Av and B'way Lines, and building a connection would be troublesome due to the Penn Station approach tracks.

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Grand Concourse

Grand Concourse 2,690

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The (G) isn't needed past Church Av because 1) the (F) can't run full express service south of Church Av, 2) local Culver riders wouldn't appreciate having to use the (G) which doesn't go anywhere to transfer to the (F) in order to get to Manhattan and 3) I don't believe that Coney Island can handle five different lines running there at all times.

 

Anyone who tries to extend the (C) to Lefferts would probably get run out of town. It doesn't matter how many trains run through there, the passengers will bail it for the (A) at Rockaway Blvd or Euclid Av.

 

As for the yellow (S), I'd simply resurrect the (W) to Whitehall and run pre-6/28 service on Broadway.

 

All in all, this is a good start, but right now, outside of Second Ave and the (7) line extension, there really isn't much that's been changed. If I were you, I'd extend the Hillside and Archer Ave lines toward eastern Queens, maybe extend Nostrand Ave to Kings Plaza. Just my two cents.

 

P.S. Welcome to the forums.

 

Damn, where's that 'Thanks' button when you need it? You hit everything on the nail :tup:

 

To add on about the (W): the (Q) will need 57/7th's express tracks free or you'll end up having a double jam with the (Q) needing to switch over to the local and the (S) to the express tracks to terminate. It's best to just send that train to Whitehall. And there's no need for another (S), the (W) is fine.

 

Putting it to 57th/7th was just to create a placeholder for the gap in service. I'd consider making it the (W) again and sending it to Whitehall, but, unless the (N) returns to Broadway express, which the (MTA) doesn't seem to want, then...I'd have to figure out how to fit the new S in. Also, in the next update, I'll make sure to not have Culver express past Kings Highway, so the (F)/(G) will run together between there and Coney Island.

 

They can always put the (N) as an express. Right now with the current service, the express (N) is technically a luxury. But with the SAS, to keep two trains on Astoria, the (W) will likely have to be brought back. Then there is no need for the (S).

 

Like he said, riders on the Culver line don't need the (G) past 4th Av-9th St. The (G) would be useless south of that station. Having a <(F)> would be better than running the (G) past Church Av.

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Grand Concourse

Grand Concourse 2,690

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What is so wrong about that? Why can't the (C) riders transfer to the (A) at Rockaway or Euclid if they want an express train? It's the same as when the (4)/(5)/(6) are local in the Bronx where the (6) is the local train while the other two run express south of 125th St (roughly). The (6) train people transfer to the (4) or (5). It seems to work out just fine there. Besides, the Leffrets extension is only 3 stations, not an entire line, so it would hardly make a difference in terms of capacity. The reason the (C) is so underused is because it isn't used effectively IMO. The (A) automatically takes all the overload because it runs further than the (C) at both ends of the line.

 

*not directed at just you*

 

For the 1000th time: Lefferts riders will not agree to losing a 1-seat ride to the city for a local. You put yourself in their shoes: would you like to lose such a service because you think the (A) would run better if all trains ran to Far Rockaway? Other than Far Rockaway and Howard Beach, the rest of the stations aren't as heavily used individually compared to the 3 stops on the Lefferts branch. So basically leave the (A) as it is or change one of the branches into the (H) or (K) to specify the difference and it should still run express.

 

Would a (K) express from perhaps 42nd/8th to Lefferts be plausible? Also, where do you suggest I merge the M to Broadway? At Herald Sq?

 

They (K) would just replace the (A) trains that goes to Lefferts. Basically it would run from 207th-Lefferts. Other than the name change, service is basically the same as the (A) does now to both branches.

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Kacie Jane

Kacie Jane 7

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To throw my $0.02 into the ring...

 

  1. (7)/(L) extensions to the West Side always win points in my book, but you lose points for the (C) to Lefferts for the reasons mentioned above. I don't know why it works for the (6) - maybe just because there's no way to make that line express - but it doesn't work anywhere else. That's why the (R) doesn't run to 179th Street anymore.
  2. One thing that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned is that I don't really think the (G) is the best choice for a Culver local. All the riders at the local stops would scream your ears off about losing their one-seat ride to Manhattan. While personally I like the orange (M), you're better off bringing back the (Mx) and (V) if you want a Culver express. (Or take a look at my map and do something completely different. B) )
  3. However, I actually do like the idea of having the express run all the way to Coney Island (or at least W 8th). The ridership may not make it necessary, but the more the (F) runs express on such a long route, the more reliable it would be. Of course, the problem is that you'd need to make the entire line 4 tracks for it to be worth it, and if it's going all the way to CI you'd need to build a fifth platform, but this is a fantasy map after all.
  4. Last but not least, the yellow S does nothing. People in Astoria need to get beyond 57th, and won't take the S just to transfer. (Also, as mentioned, you can't turn trains at 57th if you have the (Q) running through to Second Avenue.) Just bring back the (W). When you say the MTA doesn't want the (N) to be express, I really don't think that's true. They're just in service cut mode right now, so they made the N local to replace the W.

 

 

Anyway, I think it's good so far. Keep up the good work!

 

P.S. You might want to consider a different shade for the (T), or at least try to put more land between it and the East River, especially at the southern end. Makes it kind of hard to see.

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E Local

E Local 0

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Posted

Ok I like your map but it is really boring with the extensions. heres my critique:

 

- Honestly why is the (G) in coney island, there is no demand for the (G) to be extended there, just push it back to Church avenue.

- I did the same thing with the (C) but I extended it to JFK airport via Van Wyck Blvd.

- the 2nd avenue subway is okay, but it would be better if you extended it to the Bronx via 3rd avenue, to fill in the gap between GC & WPR lines.

- I see the yellow (S) as a waste, it will just clog up (Q) trains at 57 street.

- the (7)(L) extensions are good, they will serve those neighborhoods good.

 

Anyways it looks good.

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T to Dyre Avenue

T to Dyre Avenue 1,446

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Here are the service changes:

Creation of the (T), running from 125th and Lexington to Hanover Sq.

Movement of the (Q) to the Second Av line, including connecting with the (F) at 63rd and Lex.

Extension of the (7)/<7> in both directions, to Bell Blvd in Queens and to 14th St and 10th Av in Manhattan.

Westward expansion of the (L) to meet up with the newly-extended (7)/<7> at 10th Av.

Full-time extension of the (C) to Ozone Park, making it unnecessary for the (A) to run there anymore. Additionally, on weekends, the (C) will run as a Euclid-Lefferts shuttle to ensure that Ozone Park is served.

Full-time extension of the (G) to Coney Island, allowing the (F) to run as a Culver express.

Creation of a yellow (S) from 57th St and 7th Av to Astoria to fill the hole left by the (Q) on weekdays only.

 

Please provide feedback and suggestions as to what I could add!

Good job. I like the (7) extension to Bell Boulevard very much. It would be a very popular and desirable subway extension. I would certainly welcome a Bayside (7) extension. I do believe it's needed. I also like the westward (L) extension. The (L)'s current terminal at 8th Avenue with its bumper blocks within the station is nightmarish with all the delays into and out of the station.

 

But I don't think a Shuttle train from 57th Street to Ditmars/Astoria would work. It would interfere with (Q) service running to/from 2nd Avenue. It would be much better to bring back the (W). I also don't think there's a need for the (G) to be extended to Stillwell Avenue. The (F) can only run express in one direction below Church Avenue and the ridership on the Culver el doesn't justify two services, especially if one of them doesn't go to Manhattan. As for Ozone Park (C) service, the only way you can do that is to have the (C) run express in Brooklyn. But to do that, you'd have to have another train to provide local service in place of the (C).

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checkmatechamp13

checkmatechamp13 2,465

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Just one thing about the (C) to Lefferts-the reason it wouldn't succeed (in my opinion) wouldn't be the fact that it is local and that customers would have to transfer to the (A)-it is because extending the (C) to Lefferts requires additional trainsets, which would have to be taken from the (A). Although this means more service to Far Rockaway, this means less service on the mainline between Rockaway Blvd and 207th Street.

Of course, since this is a fantasy map, where money and NIMBYs are assumed to be no object, there could be the additional trainsets for the (C), and the idea would be sound.

 

As far as my suggestions go, I would put:

A Utica Avenue Line (possibly as an extension of the (4))

An extension of the (F) to Springfield Blvd in Queens

An extension of the (T) along 3rd Avenue in The Bronx

An extension of the (Q) across 125th Street

An extension of the (7) over the Whitestone Bridge to Parkchester.

An extension of the (3) one stop to Flatlands Avenue in the Livonia Yard.

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