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Iamthe1

B44 +SelectBusService+

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Actually some people did get screwed by the M15SBS. It eliminated tons of parking, and the bus stops are so far apart, more people have opted to take the local runs.

 

 

 

The B44 is the best candidate for the next SBS. The B46 will most likely never get it because Utica is a traffic nightmare, and not too much, if anything will help that line. Because the TA wants a north-south Brooklyn run to have SBS, the B44 is the way to go. The B41 doesn't do too bad with the service it has now.

 

 

 

 

I don't see that happening. Even the M34 SBS is getting artics.

 

also do you that TA will keep 40ft Standard buses on B46 for awhile.

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also do you that TA will keep 40ft Standard buses on B46 for awhile.

 

If you are asking if I think the TA will keep 40's on the line for a while, the answer is yes. I don't see anything other than standards being used on the line for now, or in the near future for that matter.

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If you are asking if I think the TA will keep 40's on the line for a while, the answer is yes. I don't see anything other than standards being used on the line for now, or in the near future for that matter.

 

Yeah, I agree with you. When/if Novabus LFSAs first hit Flatbush Depot, they might float around to different routes but once they are wrapped, they're pretty much guaranteed to stay with the B44. 126th St Depot has a few extra Novabuses not wrapped up for the M15 SBS that run on the depot's other routes. I could see something like that happening at Flatbush, but who knows?

 

Anyways, I have an update [yes, really] Back on October 27th, there was the third in a series of CAC (Community Advisory Committee) meetings about SBS. A new meeting brings a new powerpoint! It talks a lot about traffic conditions and lanes for delivery trucks and whatnot. As it turns out, the area along the B44 route during Rush Hours with biggest delays is around Glenwood Rd and Flatbush Ave. Big suprise.

 

Most importantly, this:

"Multiple CAC members requested station at Ave D / Newkirk Ave, which has very high ridership. Station will be added." [Page 10]

 

Page 10 from the Powerpoint above also shows the new sto- no, station on the route map :P

 

And finally, an open house coming up on Monday November 15th. I know it's short notice, but:

[From the DOT's Event Calendar: ]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Open House on Select Bus Service for Nostrand and Rogers Avenues

11/15/2010, 6:30 pm- 8:30 pm

Brooklyn College Student Center, Bedford Lounge, Brooklyn

 

Location:

Brooklyn College Student Center, Bedford Lounge

Campus Road and East 27th Street, 2nd Floor

Brooklyn

 

Contact Information:

311

 

Organization: NYC DOT, MTA NYCT

 

NYC DOT and MTA New York City Transit are working together to bring Select Bus Service (SBS) to Nostrand and Rogers Avenues in Brooklyn.

 

The goals of the project are to improve speed, reliability and the overall attractiveness of bus service along the corridor. SBS is already operating on the Bx12 in the Bronx and the M15 in Manhattan.

 

Come at any time between 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm to learn about the SBS project and the proposed station locations, view preliminary design plans for the corridor, give your input and talk with project team members.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by Mysterious2train

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Forget about making nostrand av a 2 way street where it is not...

It would be like Bedford av, with dam near 2,3,4,5 times the traffic....

living in this general area, Mysterious2train knows what I'm talking about....

 

 

Anyway:

 

 

**Insert random Facepalm image here**

 

The more I hear about a B44 SBS, the more discouraged I get....

I mean, with the Bx12 & the M15 SBS, no one really got screwed...

with the B44 SBS, people are gonna get screwed.... they'll be forced to take locals if they want new york av service....

people are underestimating the B44's usage on NY ave....

 

If no one'll get screwed, then feel free to throw this post right back in my face, in any magnitude.

 

That's how confident I am that it will.

 

Lots of people are still screw by M15 SBS

2nd Av/61st St, 2nd Av/71st St, 1st Av/72nd St, 2nd-1st Avs/8th Sts folks shows confuse body expression why this bus doesn't stop. Even some of Q101 Riders was screwed when they found bus stop moved to 61st St due to M15 SBS.

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Lots of people are still screw by M15 SBS

2nd Av/61st St, 2nd Av/71st St, 1st Av/72nd St, 2nd-1st Avs/8th Sts folks shows confuse body expression why this bus doesn't stop. Even some of Q101 Riders was screwed when they found bus stop moved to 61st St due to M15 SBS.

 

Yeah, I can imagine trouble on the M15 since the Q101 had to get moved, and since those two stops Limited stops you mentioned have been cut.

 

But whatever inconvience happens on the M15, we're pretty sure the B44 will have on a larger scale. Even if the B44's route change is only a certain portion of the route, it's a crazy busy section of the route that will affect a lot of people. And that's not even getting into the cut stops [i.e. Bergen St or Gates Av]

 

I feel that this is progress, but the reroute will screw over so many people it's kind of a dilemma.

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Isn't Flatbush depot supposed to be modified to handle artics?

 

Yeah, I agree with you. When/if Novabus LFSAs first hit Flatbush Depot, they might float around to different routes but once they are wrapped, they're pretty much guaranteed to stay with the B44. 126th St Depot has a few extra Novabuses not wrapped up for the M15 SBS that run on the depot's other routes. I could see something like that happening at Flatbush, but who knows?

 

Anyways, I have an update [yes, really] Back on October 27th, there was the third in a series of CAC (Community Advisory Committee) meetings about SBS. A new meeting brings a new powerpoint! It talks a lot about traffic conditions and lanes for delivery trucks and whatnot. As it turns out, the area along the B44 route during Rush Hours with biggest delays is around Glenwood Rd and Flatbush Ave. Big suprise.

 

Most importantly, this:

"Multiple CAC members requested station at Ave D / Newkirk Ave, which has very high ridership. Station will be added." [Page 10]

 

Page 10 from the Powerpoint above also shows the new sto- no, station on the route map B)

 

And finally, an open house coming up on Monday November 15th. I know it's short notice, but:

[From the DOT's Event Calender: ]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Open House on Select Bus Service for Nostrand and Rogers Avenues

11/15/2010, 6:30 pm- 8:30 pm

Brooklyn College Student Center, Bedford Lounge, Brooklyn

 

Location:

Brooklyn College Student Center, Bedford Lounge

Campus Road and East 27th Street, 2nd Floor

Brooklyn

 

Contact Information:

311

 

Organization: NYC DOT, MTA NYCT

 

NYC DOT and MTA New York City Transit are working together to bring Select Bus Service (SBS) to Nostrand and Rogers Avenues in Brooklyn.

 

The goals of the project are to improve speed, reliability and the overall attractiveness of bus service along the corridor. SBS is already operating on the Bx12 in the Bronx and the M15 in Manhattan.

 

Come at any time between 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm to learn about the SBS project and the proposed station locations, view preliminary design plans for the corridor, give your input and talk with project team members.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thanks!:cool:

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If the B44 getting taken out of New York Avenue would be a major problem, it might be a perfect time to restructure some of its surrounding routes.

 

1. B12: new eastern terminus is Prospect Park (B)(Q)(S) station via Empire Blvd, creates an Empire Blvd thru-route

 

2. B16: extended to Sutter Av/Rutland Rd (3) station via Caton, Bedford, Clarkson, East 53rd-54th, Rutland Rd

 

3. B49: becomes an Ocean av thru-route

new northern terminus is Williamsburg Bridge Plaza via Ocean, Flatbush, Vanderbilt, Flushing, Bedford/Lee Avs

 

Its Bedford-Rogers portion would now be pretty much redundant to the B44 since most riders would shift over to the B44 SBS and the nearby B41. And to kill off two birds with one stone, it runs through Vanderbilt to kill off the B69.

 

4. B69: cut, all of its runs become B67 runs

 

5. B43: new southern terminus is Brooklyn College via Kingston/Brooklyn, Winthrop, New York Av, Avenue H

 

It would serve Kings County Hospital, Wingate HS, and the Flatbush Junction

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Might be a redundant question What's to happen to The Local B44 route is that going to continue up NewYork? and the SBS and up Rogers?

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If the B44 getting taken out of New York Avenue would be a major problem, it might be a perfect time to restructure some of its surrounding routes.

 

1. B12: new eastern terminus is Prospect Park (B)(Q)(S) station via Empire Blvd, creates an Empire Blvd thru-route

 

2. B16: extended to Sutter Av/Rutland Rd (3) station via Caton, Bedford, Clarkson, East 53rd-54th, Rutland Rd

 

3. B49: becomes an Ocean av thru-route

new northern terminus is Williamsburg Bridge Plaza via Ocean, Flatbush, Vanderbilt, Flushing, Bedford/Lee Avs

 

Its Bedford-Rogers portion would now be pretty much redundant to the B44 since most riders would shift over to the B44 SBS and the nearby B41. And to kill off two birds with one stone, it runs through Vanderbilt to kill off the B69.

 

4. B69: cut, all of its runs become B67 runs

 

5. B43: new southern terminus is Brooklyn College via Kingston/Brooklyn, Winthrop, New York Av, Avenue H

 

It would serve Kings County Hospital, Wingate HS, and the Flatbush Junction

 

What the...

 

you cool people... but do you really think other routes should be altered due to SBS coming here in Brooklyn?

No one suggested anything of the sort should happen in the Bronx or Manhattan when SBS hit there.... Why us?

----------------

 

as for each individual one:

 

1) you have no idea how important that 1 seat ride to broadway junction is, in east flatbush/crown heights... you alter the current 12 west of Utica, and you'll watch ridership absolutely Tank... I guarantee that.

 

^ said point, is kinda similar to the B6 from canarsie to the junction BEFORE the B103 was created... those riders know what I'm talking about...

 

2) too convoluted/indirect; highly doubt it would be worth it...

I actually think that would be worse than the B13, but that's neither here nor there...

 

3) Much as I think an Ocean av route isn't warranted in flatbush, I think Brooklyn bus' idea of having the 49 run up ocean & across empire makes a little more sense than sending the 49 from KCC to WBP... maybe such a route would appease the Jewish communities of Williamsburg & Midwood, but still....

 

4) there's no relation w/ riders of the 69, to that of those of the B44...

 

...and since the 69 got moved to 7th av, I'm starting to notice more hipsters embarking the route.... like, where were these people when the route ran 1-2 blocks south... lol...

 

5) I always wondered what bi-directional service would be like here on NY av, but anyway...

 

creative, yes... practical, nah....

The B43 is no substitute for the B12... at all (see what I said about your idea #1)...

we need east-west routes, not more north-south routes in this area... this is why the B35 (especially) is BURSTing at the seams right now...

 

thank god the cemetery cuts off albany, b/c there might've been a route placed along it too, probably going to the junction....

Edited by B35 via Church

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Might be a redundant question What's to happen to The Local B44 route is that going to continue up NewYork? and the SBS and up Rogers?

 

That's correct; The B44 Local will be pretty much the same as it is now, same route, same stops, likely the same fleet, etc. It will however, be extended to run the full route between Knapp St & Williamsburg Bridge Plaza at all times. Right now, when the Limited runs, the local operates only between Avenue U and Flushing Ave.

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What the...

 

you cool people... but do you really think other routes should be altered due to SBS coming here in Brooklyn?

No one suggested anything of the sort should happen in the Bronx or Manhattan when SBS hit there.... Why us?

----------------

 

as for each individual one:

 

1) you have no idea how important that 1 seat ride to broadway junction is, in east flatbush/crown heights... you alter the current 12 west of Utica, and you'll watch ridership absolutely Tank... I guarantee that.

 

^ said point, is kinda similar to the B6 from canarsie to the junction BEFORE the B103 was created... those riders know what I'm talking about...

 

2) too convoluted/indirect; highly doubt it would be worth it...

I actually think that would be worse than the B13, but that's neither here nor there...

 

3) Much as I think an Ocean av route isn't warranted in flatbush, I think Brooklyn bus' idea of having the 49 run up ocean & across empire makes a little more sense than sending the 49 from KCC to WBP... maybe such a route would appease the Jewish communities of Williamsburg & Midwood, but still....

 

4) there's no relation w/ riders of the 69, to that of those of the B44...

 

...and since the 69 got moved to 7th av, I'm starting to notice more hipsters embarking the route.... like, where were these people when the route ran 1-2 blocks south... lol...

 

5) I always wondered what bi-directional service would be like here on NY av, but anyway...

 

creative, yes... practical, nah....

The B43 is no substitute for the B12... at all (see what I said about your idea #1)...

we need east-west routes, not more north-south routes in this area... this is why the B35 (especially) is BURSTing at the seams right now...

 

thank god the cemetery cuts off albany, b/c there might've been a route placed along it too, probably going to the junction....

 

For #2, how about having the B16 run to Broadway Junction via Clarkson, Utica, East New York.

I re-did the B16 and B12 to provide true east-west routes between Church Av and the (3) and (4) lines on Eastern Parkway. For the B43, it would allow Kings county Hospital and Wingate HS to be more accessible from points north like Bed-Stuy and south like the Junction.

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Well, the Open House back on Monday wasn't anything special. No debates or Power points or anything that would make the open house itself stand out. There was a Novabus LFSA brought from 126th St Depot (bus number #1256). [LFSA in Brooklyn = AWESOME] People got to go inside, chat with the B/O, so that was nice. Reportedly the bus got a flat [lol], but I didn't stay to check it out. Also, I think it's funny how no one at the open house or on the DOT's SBS page mentioned how the B44 SBS is moving from New York Ave to Rogers Ave. It's just like the B44 is going to magically appear on Rogers Ave once SBS starts...

Edited by Mysterious2train

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Well, the Open House back on Monday wasn't anything special. No debates or Power points or anything that would make the open house itself stand out. There was a Novabus LFSA brought from 126th St Depot (bus number #1256). [LFSA in Brooklyn = AWESOME] People got to go inside, chat with the B/O, so that was nice. Reportedly the bus got a flat [lol], but I didn't stay to check it out. Also, I think it's funny how no one at the open house or on the DOT's SBS page mentioned how the B44 SBS is moving from New York Ave to Rogers Ave. It's just like the B44 is going to magically appear on Rogers Ave once SBS stops...

 

Just goes to show you that these planners/proposers don't care about the effect such a move would have on regular B44 riders....

 

The idea of "as long as it doesn't directly affect me, IDGAF" remains ever so present

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I guess I will add my two cents to this ordeal. In theory, SBS would help the B44 but in this application, I just don't think it is going to work. It shafts way to many riders. It is been well stated about the reroute from NY Ave to Rogers Ave but the amount of stops skipped is ridiculous. I'm just going to speak more about the local.

They say that the B44 local will be faster and it probably will but unlike the M15/Bx12, locals have run all this time from Avenue U to Flushing Ave. An extension to Williamsburg/Sheepshead Bay despite dedicated bus lanes, I feel will increase delays. Will they increase local service on the B44, especially for those on NY Ave? I can only speak from Fulton St & above as a dedicated rider (I used to ride from Church to Fulton), but during the PM Rush, there is plenty of traffic southbound/northbound between Flushing Av & Broadway.

At Gates Ave for example, there is often a sizable amount of passengers that the local will now have to cover for the limited. Even though it is a one block difference, it can be a inconvenience for SBS riders, both young and old, to walk one block to the A train station, especially in the AM Rush.

I understand that people have to make sacrifices but something needs to be tweaked, not sure what.

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Might be a redundant question What's to happen to The Local B44 route is that going to continue up NewYork? and the SBS and up Rogers?

 

It will remain unchanged except it will now terminate at Knapp Street instead of at Avenue U.

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If the B44 getting taken out of New York Avenue would be a major problem, it might be a perfect time to restructure some of its surrounding routes.

 

1. B12: new eastern terminus is Prospect Park (:P(Q)(S) station via Empire Blvd, creates an Empire Blvd thru-route

 

2. B16: extended to Sutter Av/Rutland Rd (3) station via Caton, Bedford, Clarkson, East 53rd-54th, Rutland Rd

 

3. B49: becomes an Ocean av thru-route

new northern terminus is Williamsburg Bridge Plaza via Ocean, Flatbush, Vanderbilt, Flushing, Bedford/Lee Avs

 

Its Bedford-Rogers portion would now be pretty much redundant to the B44 since most riders would shift over to the B44 SBS and the nearby B41. And to kill off two birds with one stone, it runs through Vanderbilt to kill off the B69.

 

4. B69: cut, all of its runs become B67 runs

 

5. B43: new southern terminus is Brooklyn College via Kingston/Brooklyn, Winthrop, New York Av, Avenue H

 

It would serve Kings County Hospital, Wingate HS, and the Flatbush Junction

 

Someone here questioned the need to change other routes with the implementation of B44 SBS and why it wasn't necessary in Manhattan or the Bronx. The answer to that one is the Brooklyn SBS is the only where it is not being implemented entirely to follow the local route, doubling the service on Rogers Avenue and halving it on New York Avenue.

 

Regarding your specific proposals, I do not know if you've seen my proposed routing system at my website: http://Brooklynbus.tripod.com , but your ideas are very similar and slightly more radical. I have a few problems with it, however. While your idea to restructure the B12 may look very appealing on paper, the routes usage is just to heavy to fool around with it. It is heavily used from Brownsville to Kings County Hospital. Breaking it at any point will cause the loss of direct service for many requiring transfers.

 

I do agree with the need for Ocean Avenue, Clarkson Avenue, and Empire Blvd through routes and extending the B43 southward. I'm not in favor of extending the B49 to Williamsburg Plaza. I'd rather provide a new connection to East Flatbush, rather than parallel th B44 to the Plaza.

 

You may be interested in this:

 

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2010/11/op-ed-select-bus-service-on-nostrand-is-a-sham/

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Someone here questioned the need to change other routes with the implementation of B44 SBS and why it wasn't necessary in Manhattan or the Bronx. The answer to that one is the Brooklyn SBS is the only where it is not being implemented entirely to follow the local route, doubling the service on Rogers Avenue and halving it on New York Avenue.

 

Regarding your specific proposals, I do not know if you've seen my proposed routing system at my website: http://Brooklynbus.tripod.com , but your ideas are very similar and slightly more radical. I have a few problems with it, however. While your idea to restructure the B12 may look very appealing on paper, the routes usage is just to heavy to fool around with it. It is heavily used from Brownsville to Kings County Hospital. Breaking it at any point will cause the loss of direct service for many requiring transfers.

 

I do agree with the need for Ocean Avenue, Clarkson Avenue, and Empire Blvd through routes and extending the B43 southward. I'm not in favor of extending the B49 to Williamsburg Plaza. I'd rather provide a new connection to East Flatbush, rather than parallel th B44 to the Plaza.

 

You may be interested in this:

 

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2010/11/op-ed-select-bus-service-on-nostrand-is-a-sham/

 

I decided to do some tweaks to my revamp around the B44 SBS.

 

1. As mentioned, ALL N/B B44's are rerouted to Rogers Av.

 

2. B49: becomes an Ocean Av/Empire Blvd thru-route, ending at Utica Av (3)(4) station

 

3. B12: replaces B16 as Fort Hamilton thru-route as it runs between Bay Ridge and Broadway Junction

Terminates at 86th St/4 Av (R) station, replaced by extended B1 west of 4 Av

 

Route: 86th St, Fort Hamilton Pkwy, Caton Av, Bedford Av, Clarkson Av, Utica Av, East New York Av.

 

4. As for the B16, it would be redone as a 13/14 Avs/Cortelyou Rd thru-route, running between Brooklyn VA Hospital and Kings County Hospital, largely replacing part of the old B23 outside of Boro Park

 

Route: New York Av, Beverly Rd, Cortelyou Rd, Dahill Rd, 36/37 Sts, 13/14 Avs, New Utrecht Av, 14 Av, Poly Pl

 

5. As mentioned, B43 would replace the B44 on NY Av as its new southern terminus is Brooklyn College

 

Route: Kingston/Brooklyn, Winthrop, NY Av, Av H

 

6. The B69 would now be the one heading to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza via vanderbilt, Flushing, Bedford/Lee Avs, Broadway

 

7. B1 is extended to 4 Av/101 St replacing B16

 

Any comments?

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I decided to do some tweaks to my revamp around the B44 SBS.

 

1. As mentioned, ALL N/B B44's are rerouted to Rogers Av. OK. How does riders get to Williamsburg Plaza? NY Ave riders will likely scream for losing a '1-seat' ride to Bedford between Fulton and Taylor/'Willie B' Plaza.

 

2. B49: becomes an Ocean Av/Empire Blvd thru-route, ending at Utica Av (3)(4) station. Not a terrible idea as others here on NYCTF and other transit advocates have also made this proposal.

Only question is how many use the B49 further down into SW Brooklyn/Kingsboro CC?

If so then the B48 needs to be brought back to serving Bedford/Classon Aves to Empire/Prospect Park (:P(Q) station.

 

 

 

3. B12: replaces B16 as Fort Hamilton thru-route as it runs between Bay Ridge and Broadway Junction. Maybe extend the B12 to Church/McDonald Aves but that it. The issue of bus bunching/traffic was the reason besides the fiscal crisis the B12 Eastern Terminal in Cypress Hill was ended last summer.

 

Route: 86th St, Fort Hamilton Pkwy, Caton Av, Bedford Av, Clarkson Av, Utica Av, East New York Av.

 

4. As for the B16, it would be redone as a 13/14 Avs/Cortelyou Rd thru-route, running between Brooklyn VA Hospital and Kings County Hospital

 

Route: New York Av, Beverly Rd, Cortelyou Rd, Dahill Rd, 36/37 Sts, 13/14 Avs, New Utrecht Av, 14 Av, Poly Pl

 

The question is would B16 riders going to the 86th ST/Bay Ridge shopping district be upset?

 

5. As mentioned, B43 would replace the B44 on NY Av as its new southern terminus is Brooklyn College

 

Route: Kingston/Brooklyn, Winthrop, NY Av, Av H

 

I don't think this will work because most riders on NY Ave are not going to Greenpoint. A better idea is to create a new B44a route between "Willie B Plaza' and Ralph Ave/Flatlands Ave to give Georgetown residents an additional route.

 

Route: Current B44 Local route then via Flatbush Ave., Ave. J and terminate at Ralph/Flatlands.

 

6. The B69 would now be the one heading to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza via vanderbilt, Flushing, Bedford/Lee Avs, Broadway

 

Note a bad idea. Also great alternative if and when the (G) has problems.

 

Any comments?

 

My replies in red.

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Actually. I like it very much. The only problem is the extra mileage which they would object to. I wish there was a way around this but I don't really see how.

 

The B1 is identical to what I proposed back in 1978.

 

I'm not sure if the B49 could be justified patronage wise all the way to Eastern Parkway, unless it turns out that some riders are taken from the B46 and the B12 to justify slightly less B46 service along this portion of the route. An alternative would be to end it at Empire And Utica with a turnaround via Utica, Montgomery Street, East New York Avenue to Empire Blvd. (This turnaround was once used for school service so I know it could be done without trouble, although it looks difficult on a map.)

 

I think this your version of the B12 could actually work.

 

Your B16 should run at 15 or 20 minute headways which would be sufficient. (Supplemental school service may be necessary.) I don't think there are many if any Bay Ridge Shoppers coming from Borough Park to be upset.

 

B43 - Right turn from New York Avenue to Winthrop Street would be a problem especially if buses have to make turn in both directions at that corner. Although it is longer, I would go the other way around Albany and Clarkson. There are few traffic signals so it wouldn't add that much time. I also would extend only every other B43 south of Empire Blvd most of the time to save additional costs.

 

Don't understand your B44a. Are you talking about the local from the south or north going to Georgetown and what about the other direction? I believe there should be Georgetown service to, but think the 11 should be extended to do this.

 

Also thought of ending the B69 to Williamsburg Plaza before latest cuts were made. It wasn't needed to go to the Brooklyn Bridge. Just a route that never kept up with the times. Someone once suggested that it use Washington instead of Vanderbilt. That should also be looked at.

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Actually. I like it very much. The only problem is the extra mileage which they would object to. I wish there was a way around this but I don't really see how.

 

The B1 is identical to what I proposed back in 1978.

 

I'm not sure if the B49 could be justified patronage wise all the way to Eastern Parkway, unless it turns out that some riders are taken from the B46 and the B12 to justify slightly less B46 service along this portion of the route. An alternative would be to end it at Empire And Utica with a turnaround via Utica, Montgomery Street, East New York Avenue to Empire Blvd. (This turnaround was once used for school service so I know it could be done without trouble, although it looks difficult on a map.)

 

I think this your version of the B12 could actually work.

 

Your B16 should run at 15 or 20 minute headways which would be sufficient. (Supplemental school service may be necessary.) I don't think there are many if any Bay Ridge Shoppers coming from Borough Park to be upset.

 

B43 - Right turn from New York Avenue to Winthrop Street would be a problem especially if buses have to make turn in both directions at that corner. Although it is longer, I would go the other way around Albany and Clarkson. There are few traffic signals so it wouldn't add that much time. I also would extend only every other B43 south of Empire Blvd most of the time to save additional costs.

 

Don't understand your B44a. Are you talking about the local from the south or north going to Georgetown and what about the other direction? I believe there should be Georgetown service to, but think the 11 should be extended to do this.

 

Also thought of ending the B69 to Williamsburg Plaza before latest cuts were made. It wasn't needed to go to the Brooklyn Bridge. Just a route that never kept up with the times. Someone once suggested that it use Washington instead of Vanderbilt. That should also be looked at.

 

 

The B44a could run between Ralph/Flatlands (Georgetown Shopping Center)via Ave. J and Nostrand/NY Ave and have it's Northbound Terminal at Flushing Ave.

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Actually. I like it very much. The only problem is the extra mileage which they would object to. I wish there was a way around this but I don't really see how.

 

The B1 is identical to what I proposed back in 1978.

 

I'm not sure if the B49 could be justified patronage wise all the way to Eastern Parkway, unless it turns out that some riders are taken from the B46 and the B12 to justify slightly less B46 service along this portion of the route. An alternative would be to end it at Empire And Utica with a turnaround via Utica, Montgomery Street, East New York Avenue to Empire Blvd. (This turnaround was once used for school service so I know it could be done without trouble, although it looks difficult on a map.)

 

I think this your version of the B12 could actually work.

 

Your B16 should run at 15 or 20 minute headways which would be sufficient. (Supplemental school service may be necessary.) I don't think there are many if any Bay Ridge Shoppers coming from Borough Park to be upset.

 

B43 - Right turn from New York Avenue to Winthrop Street would be a problem especially if buses have to make turn in both directions at that corner. Although it is longer, I would go the other way around Albany and Clarkson. There are few traffic signals so it wouldn't add that much time. I also would extend only every other B43 south of Empire Blvd most of the time to save additional costs.

 

Don't understand your B44a. Are you talking about the local from the south or north going to Georgetown and what about the other direction? I believe there should be Georgetown service to, but think the 11 should be extended to do this.

 

Also thought of ending the B69 to Williamsburg Plaza before latest cuts were made. It wasn't needed to go to the Brooklyn Bridge. Just a route that never kept up with the times. Someone once suggested that it use Washington instead of Vanderbilt. That should also be looked at.

 

I might as well agree with you on the aspect that the B43 can run via Albany and Clarkson. I only sent it through Winthrop so it can stop at Wingate HS.

 

As for my new B16, most of the shoppers heading to Bay Ridge that use the current B16 come from Fort Hamilton Pkwy, not 13/14 Avs. Borough Park has a very different clientele when it comes to their shopping.

 

As for Georgetown, send the B11 via Veterans Av and kill off that branch of the B41 (thus sending all B41's to Kings Plaza).

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