Jump to content

M34 +SelectBusService+


East New York

Recommended Posts


  • Replies 249
  • Created
  • Last Reply
I don't see a point in waiting for artics, though. I mean the fact that people can board through the back door and don't have to pay one at a time will save time right there. It won't be as much as if they had artics, but it'll still be better than the current situation.

 

Just one thing: On the NGs, I assume the B/O can manually hold the doors open, right (I mean hold a button and keep them open, rather than having people pushing). I can imagine a Manhattan rider getting all frantic because the door closed on their body.

 

While I do agree it isn't necessary for artics to be used for all SBS lines, I think it does make some sense. Riders are supposedly pre-paying before boarding anyway, so artics wouldn't be that big a deal. This way you can potentially free up those 40' buses for other lines like the M86 - which I think should've stayed using 40' buses rather than the artics.

 

Artics on regular crosstown lines are terrible because you have one door to enter and the problem is made worse at the subway transfer stops. And I rode the M86 for a few years in the early 2000s - so I know how much a problem artics are for crosstown routes. You definitely want to avoid the CPW and Lexington Av stops as you will be there for some time.

 

Artics should've been designed so you can enter from all the doors [another farebox collector]. That way you can speed up the loading process as there will be people wanting to get off at the front while the back you might not have as many people getting off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see a point in waiting for artics, though. I mean the fact that people can board through the back door and don't have to pay one at a time will save time right there. It won't be as much as if they had artics, but it'll still be better than the current situation.

 

Just one thing: On the NGs, I assume the B/O can manually hold the doors open, right (I mean hold a button and keep them open, rather than having people pushing). I can imagine a Manhattan rider getting all frantic because the door closed on their body.

 

That's exactly the point that I disagree with. I don't see much time at all saved because the NGs are so small and those buses fill up so quickly that people trying to get off in the back will only force people that don't have to get off to get off and then they'll have to get on again, then the other people will have to get on as well that are new riders. There's only two doors and those buses are simply too little to save any real time in terms of boarding. Artics would save more time. More doors and more room so you won't have so many people crowding by the back door like they do on the NGs.

 

SBS attracts more riders. Before SBS came to the M15 I would've never even considered taking the limited for any distance over a mile, but now I'm fine with taking a crosstown bus from Midtown to 1st (rather than Park), and getting the SBS from there rather than taking the train and getting a crosstown bus on the Upper East Side.

 

It's all an illusion and a gimmick. It really only saves me an average of 2-3 minutes now with SBS than the limited, but the fact that they consider it to be bus rapid transit is enough, and the ridership levels show that. The SBS on 34th Street will probably get some more riders that currently walk.

 

 

LOL... See what I'm saying? 2-3 minutes... What a joke... LOL We're the only two not drinking the Kool-Aid. They have to do more if they really want to see any real savings in time. Use signal priority for one in combination with SBS and cut out more stops.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So folks will be able to board from the back on those buses too? I'm wondering because I can see that being an issue on those buses.

 

With artics it does, yes. With NGs I don't think so and if it does it is indeed just slightly. It needs to be more organized in order to see any real time difference IMO.

 

Clearly people not having to stop at the farebox automatically speeds things up....

 

More organized??? How?

 

SBS attracts more riders. Before SBS came to the M15 I would've never even considered taking the limited for any distance over a mile, but now I'm fine with taking a crosstown bus from Midtown to 1st (rather than Park), and getting the SBS from there rather than taking the train and getting a crosstown bus on the Upper East Side.

 

It's all an illusion and a gimmick. It really only saves me an average of 2-3 minutes now with SBS than the limited, but the fact that they consider it to be bus rapid transit is enough, and the ridership levels show that. The SBS on 34th Street will probably get some more riders that currently walk.

 

So because it only saves YOU 2-3 minutes means it's a gimmick??? LMAO! Spare me! Go ride the M15 SBS from end to end, then get back to me!

 

I don't see a point in waiting for artics, though. I mean the fact that people can board through the back door and don't have to pay one at a time will save time right there. It won't be as much as if they had artics, but it'll still be better than the current situation.

 

Just one thing: On the NGs, I assume the B/O can manually hold the doors open, right (I mean hold a button and keep them open, rather than having people pushing). I can imagine a Manhattan rider getting all frantic because the door closed on their body.

 

The doors can be adjusted to the needs of the operator. And I too don't see why anyone would wait for artics.

 

While I do agree it isn't necessary for artics to be used for all SBS lines, I think it does make some sense. Riders are supposedly pre-paying before boarding anyway, so artics wouldn't be that big a deal. This way you can potentially free up those 40' buses for other lines like the M86 - which I think should've stayed using 40' buses rather than the artics.

 

Artics on regular crosstown lines are terrible because you have one door to enter and the problem is made worse at the subway transfer stops. And I rode the M86 for a few years in the early 2000s - so I know how much a problem artics are for crosstown routes. You definitely want to avoid the CPW and Lexington Av stops as you will be there for some time.

 

Artics should've been designed so you can enter from all the doors [another farebox collector]. That way you can speed up the loading process as there will be people wanting to get off at the front while the back you might not have as many people getting off.

 

Artics are designed the way the operator wants them to be. Most, if not all BRT services allows people to enter or exit from any door.

 

You say artics are terrible on crosstown lines because you have one door to enter. How is it any different than a 40 footer???

 

And i'm not quite following you on "another farebox collector." You cant have a farebox anywhere other than the driver area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Artics are designed the way the operator wants them to be. Most, if not all BRT services allows people to enter or exit from any door.

 

You say artics are terrible on crosstown lines because you have one door to enter. How is it any different than a 40 footer???

 

And i'm not quite following you on "another farebox collector." You cant have a farebox anywhere other than the driver area.

 

Because of the length of the bus especially the NF ones with 2 doors - it can take forever if people are getting off at the front rather than the back of the bus.

 

For the 2nd 'farebox' [basically just a metrocard reader rather than a box], I'm thinking a sort of 'gate' that opens/closes once each person enters. Sensors in the stairwell would monitor each person to minimize the chance of farebeating. Obviously this means at the back the person must have a full fare card and can not use coins to then request for a transfer pass.

 

Point is the 2-door artics are terrible for crowd control for a short crosstown route. Artics should've been 3 sets of doors. And people really need to be forced to exit towards the back rather than the front, which delays people trying to enter the bus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking closely it makes sense. They basically make all of the same stops except for the Madison Avenue stop. Just a local bus that allows you to pay before boarding, but it should help speed things up. B/Os get stuck with people running for the bus way too often on that line, especially at 7th Avenue. They need this on the M23 and M42 as well.

 

 

 

And will both the M34 and M34A get artics?

 

1st Avenue is even worse going west. Half the time, the line (yes they actually wait on a line, haven't really seen it in Manhattan) stretches all the way to the corner.

 

They both will get artics once Quill gets their piece of the LFSA pie. My concern with that is at Waterside Plaza. That single driving lane is a PITA to get into in you swing out too wide.

 

But then again, if the security guards down there actually let them use the parking garage lane/freight area (I know all the security guards there, some let buses drive through), it'll be easier...that is if they don't mind the speed bumps lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because of the length of the bus especially the NF ones with 2 doors - it can take forever if people are getting off at the front rather than the back of the bus.

 

For the 2nd 'farebox' [metrocard reader], I'm thinking a sort of 'gate' that opens/closes once each person enters. Sensors in the stairwell would monitor each person to minimize the chance of farebeating. Obviously this means the back the person must have a full fare card and not using coins to then request for a transfer pass.

 

Point is the 2-door artics are terrible for crowd control for a short crosstown route. Artics should've been 3 sets of doors. And people really need to be forced to exit towards the back rather than the front, which delays people trying to enter the bus.

 

That fare collection method at the back door would never work. The gate idea is way too complicated, and no agency is going to spend money on something like that. The engineering alone would be just crazy.

 

2 door artics hold more passengers than 3 door buses do. Not only that, but I don't even think there was a such thing as a 3 door high floor. Most people are encouraged to exit the rear of the bus anyway.

 

I personally don't think they were that bad. Before we knew what 3 door artics were, they seemed to get the job done pretty well. I do however see your point, and definitely agree that people should not be exiting the front of the bus unless it is crush loaded, and they are already near the front.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

That fare collection method at the back door would never work. The gate idea is way too complicated, and no agency is going to spend money on something like that. The engineering alone would be just crazy.

 

2 door artics hold more passengers than 3 door buses do. Not only that, but I don't even think there was a such thing as a 3 door high floor. Most people are encouraged to exit the rear of the bus anyway.

 

Mississauga_Transit_9352-a.jpg

4762499654_f0f961f2be.jpg

translinkb3017jan118fp.jpg

CAT_New_Flyer_D60HF.JPG

 

All models seen here are D60HFs with 3 doors. Just a few to blow ya mind :(

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, we distinguish between the neighborhoods of the massive borough that is Manhattan. We distinguish the types of people. We don't generalize, it's like not ALL of Staten Island is a trash dump...

 

Alright Mr. Technical, Midtown riders would throw a fit if the doors closed on them.

 

Artics should've been designed so you can enter from all the doors [another farebox collector]. That way you can speed up the loading process as there will be people wanting to get off at the front while the back you might not have as many people getting off.

 

I'm not sure if that would work. I mean if nobody's watching, what's to stop somebody from getting on without paying? Then again, on the crosstown routes south of Central Park, it doesn't seem like there would be a ton of farebeaters.

 

I mean, if you're having them enter through the back door, the only real way to do it is +SBS+.

 

That's exactly the point that I disagree with. I don't see much time at all saved because the NGs are so small and those buses fill up so quickly that people trying to get off in the back will only force people that don't have to get off to get off and then they'll have to get on again, then the other people will have to get on as well that are new riders. There's only two doors and those buses are simply too little to save any real time in terms of boarding. Artics would save more time. More doors and more room so you won't have so many people crowding by the back door like they do on the NGs.

 

 

So at the back doors, the situation might not be much better, but at the front doors, people aren't wasting time dipping their MetroCards. That's where the real time savings are coming from.

 

LOL... See what I'm saying? 2-3 minutes... What a joke... LOL We're the only two not drinking the Kool-Aid. They have to do more if they really want to see any real savings in time. Use signal priority for one in combination with SBS and cut out more stops.

 

On a street like 34th Street, +SBS+ might not work too well. You could end up disrupting the flow on one or more of the avenues if you do that (they're timed so you have a "green wave", and TSP might interfere with it. Then again, it may not)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So at the back doors, the situation might not be much better, but at the front doors, people aren't wasting time dipping their MetroCards. That's where the real time savings are coming from.

 

See below...

 

Clearly people not having to stop at the farebox automatically speeds things up....

 

More organized??? How?

 

Well yeah, having people pay in advance should speed things up. The problem is that whatever time you save with folks paying in advance you lose by way of those small NGs. I mean we have plenty of them on Staten Island and the aisles are so narrow that anytime the bus fills up and people need to get off, you usually have to get off of the bus (be it in the front or the back) to let everyone get off because the aisles are too small for folks to get through. Then all of those people have to get on again (in the back and the front) and you know that the M34 and M16s get crowded, so having an NG where people can board on the back as the well... IMO will indeed be a problem and the savings if any will be extremely marginal, which is why the need artics ASAP. Not sure why they didn't have them before anyway. I've watched the benefits of those new artics and what I mean by more organized is that you have more doors for people to exit and enter through and you don't have a bunch of people packed by the rear door as much because there is more room to stand and for folks to move and such. With the NGs people tend to stand by the doorways more often because of the lack of aisle room which slows down boarding and exiting.

 

 

So because it only saves YOU 2-3 minutes means it's a gimmick??? LMAO! Spare me! Go ride the M15 SBS from end to end, then get back to me!

 

Let's be realistic though... How many people are riding the M15SBS from end to end? Hell, I've used it from over by South Street Seaport to 42nd street by the UN, and quite frankly I still found it slow in terms of the time saved. The boarding was quick and the driver was quick too, but it didn't seem much faster than the M15 LTD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's be realistic though... How many people are riding the M15SBS from end to end? Hell, I've used it from over by South Street Seaport to 42nd street by the UN, and quite frankly I still found it slow in terms of the time saved. The boarding was quick and the driver was quick too, but it didn't seem much faster than the M15 LTD.

 

You can blame the traffic for that @ times. With the right driver & time the (M15) +SBS can be more efficent than it's old limited counterpart by like 5 minutes. Most of this is just from my experience but still some it is true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well yeah, having people pay in advance should speed things up. The problem is that whatever time you save with folks paying in advance you lose by way of those small NGs. I mean we have plenty of them on Staten Island and the aisles are so narrow that anytime the bus fills up and people need to get off, you usually have to get off of the bus (be it in the front or the back) to let everyone get off because the aisles are too small for folks to get through. Then all of those people have to get on again (in the back and the front) and you know that the M34 and M16s get crowded, so having an NG where people can board on the back as the well... IMO will indeed be a problem and the savings if any will be extremely marginal, which is why the need artics ASAP. Not sure why they didn't have them before anyway. I've watched the benefits of those new artics and what I mean by more organized is that you have more doors for people to exit and enter through and you don't have a bunch of people packed by the rear door as much because there is more room to stand and for folks to move and such. With the NGs people tend to stand by the doorways more often because of the lack of aisle room which slows down boarding and exiting.

 

 

But I still don't see why the lack of artics should be a reason to postpone the +SBS+, though. I mean, people have to get off and then get back on with the current buses.

 

Yes, the lines would be much better off with artics (whether or not they have +SBS+), but the lack of them shouldn't be a reason to postpone the addition of service.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I still don't see why the lack of artics should be a reason to postpone the +SBS+, though. I mean, people have to get off and then get back on with the current buses.

 

Yes, the lines would be much better off with artics (whether or not they have +SBS+), but the lack of them shouldn't be a reason to postpone the addition of service.

 

lol... You supporting additional service instead of artics... Now that's a shocker... :eek:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See below...

 

 

 

Well yeah, having people pay in advance should speed things up. The problem is that whatever time you save with folks paying in advance you lose by way of those small NGs. I mean we have plenty of them on Staten Island and the aisles are so narrow that anytime the bus fills up and people need to get off, you usually have to get off of the bus (be it in the front or the back) to let everyone get off because the aisles are too small for folks to get through. Then all of those people have to get on again (in the back and the front) and you know that the M34 and M16s get crowded, so having an NG where people can board on the back as the well... IMO will indeed be a problem and the savings if any will be extremely marginal, which is why the need artics ASAP. Not sure why they didn't have them before anyway. I've watched the benefits of those new artics and what I mean by more organized is that you have more doors for people to exit and enter through and you don't have a bunch of people packed by the rear door as much because there is more room to stand and for folks to move and such. With the NGs people tend to stand by the doorways more often because of the lack of aisle room which slows down boarding and exiting.

 

 

 

 

Let's be realistic though... How many people are riding the M15SBS from end to end? Hell, I've used it from over by South Street Seaport to 42nd street by the UN, and quite frankly I still found it slow in terms of the time saved. The boarding was quick and the driver was quick too, but it didn't seem much faster than the M15 LTD.

 

I mostly agree with you on the top paragraph, so there is no need to comment other that the fact that MTA has an artic shortage. Quite a few lines should have them by now, but due to the fact that New Flyer and MTA had a falling out some years back, it has put the agency in this current position.

 

 

Now for paragraph 2, more people than you actually actually use the line from "end to end." When I say end to end, I don't mean that literally, but I do mean they(we) are on the bus for at least 60% of the line. I personally have been on the M15 more times than I can think about counting, so I know many people use the line for a nice distance. I used to use the M15 LTD 4 days out of the week when I lived in Ft. Greene. I can definitely say the new SBS speeds things up a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mostly agree with you on the top paragraph, so there is no need to comment other that the fact that MTA has an artic shortage. Quite a few lines should have them by now, but due to the fact that New Flyer and MTA had a falling out some years back, it has put the agency in this current position.

 

 

Now for paragraph 2, more people than you actually actually use the line from "end to end." When I say end to end, I don't mean that literally, but I do mean they(we) are on the bus for at least 60% of the line. I personally have been on the M15 more times than I can think about counting, so I know many people use the line for a nice distance. I used to use the M15 LTD 4 days out of the week when I lived in Ft. Greene. I can definitely say the new SBS speeds things up a bit.

 

I think my point was that only a few really benefit from the true time savings, since most more than likely don't ride for 60% of the route. I mean going from Downtown to Midtown is a good little distance too.

 

Not to get off of topic, but I was on the X10 coming in this morning to try and catch a BM3 to get to my barber back in Sheepshead Bay and I saw a 4XXX NG broken down on the Gowanus. Apparently there were shuttle buses for the (F) train and I saw what looked like a bunch of (MTA) personnel there too. Was an awkward scene because there was really nowhere for them to wait at. That got to me to thinking about how having more artics would benefit shuttle service since they could run it cheaper by way of needing fewer drivers and moving more people efficiently. So I guess my question is do you think that the (MTA) will be warming up to more artics in the future?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol... You supporting additional service instead of artics... Now that's a shocker... :eek:

 

I meant to say the addition of +SBS+ service. You know I'd never support extra buses on the road. :P

 

Basically, my point is that if +SBS+ speeds up buses marginally (even with 40-foot buses), we shouldn't have to wait for artics to implement it. Of course, I'd be better if the route had artics and we should get them there ASAP (to avoid having to add extra service to the line. ;) )

 

I mean, between the 2 lines, you have a bus every 5 minutes, so the extra service would only be for capacity issues. Since it can be done cheaper ;) there's no reason not to use artics as soon as they're available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I meant to say the addition of +SBS+ service. You know I'd never support extra buses on the road. :P

 

Basically, my point is that if +SBS+ speeds up buses marginally (even with 40-foot buses), we shouldn't have to wait for artics to implement it. Of course, I'd be better if the route had artics and we should get them there ASAP (to avoid having to add extra service to the line. ;) )

 

I mean, between the 2 lines, you have a bus every 5 minutes, so the extra service would only be for capacity issues. Since it can be done cheaper ;) there's no reason not to use artics as soon as they're available.

 

Yeah, but that has yet to be proven in this case... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think my point was that only a few really benefit from the true time savings, since most more than likely don't ride for 60% of the route. I mean going from Downtown to Midtown is a good little distance too.

 

Not to get off of topic, but I was on the X10 coming in this morning to try and catch a BM3 to get to my barber back in Sheepshead Bay and I saw a 4XXX NG broken down on the Gowanus. Apparently there were shuttle buses for the (F) train and I saw what looked like a bunch of (MTA) personnel there too. Was an awkward scene because there was really nowhere for them to wait at. That got to me to thinking about how having more artics would benefit shuttle service since they could run it cheaper by way of needing fewer drivers and moving more people efficiently. So I guess my question is do you think that the (MTA) will be warming up to more artics in the future?

 

They are ordering 836 artics as of right now, so I would say yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just trying to get an idea of the wrapping schedule,

 

Wrapped Buses

3800-3801, 3806, 3812-3813, 3816-3817

 

To be wrapped (naked)

3802, 3804-3805, 3807, 3809-3810, 3819, 3823, 3825

 

Not being wrapped (full ads, no idea if there are plans to wrap them)

3828-3829

 

You wouldve thought they would have wrapped all the buses by yesterday... yeah 3828-3829 didnt get the blue lights so i figured.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.