would a minibus be a bad investment for the MTA

[uptown164]

I think it will be a good idea for the MTA to buy some minibuses for some service

 

[East New York]

Anything less than a 40 is no good in my book! If LIB doesn't have any, we sure as heck don't need any. Besides, we transfer buses around way too much for that IMO.

[Shortline Bus]

Anything less than a 40 is no good in my book! If LIB doesn't have any, we sure as heck don't need any. Besides, we transfer buses around way too much for that IMO.

 

 

I disagree ENY. Bee Line uses 35-foot Orion for their lower used buses mainly in Northern Westchester such as the #10, #12 and #16. Not to mention other large transit systems in US like the CTA(Chicago)SEPTA(Philly area) the Los Angeles MTA naming a few use 35-foot buses on low usage routes as well.

 

So why not use a 35-foot bus (not ever smaller except for access a ride)on low used NYCT/(MTA)Buses? It would also save on gas as well.

If there was smaller 35-foot buses used on near canned routes like the B37, B39, Q74 and Q79 to name a few, those lines might be saved now.

 

Not to mention it can be used right now on existing low-usage routes such as on many overnight routes(Never for the system's busiest lines such as M15, BX12, Q44,B41, B46, B44, M101, etc.)and others like the M8, M21, S55/56, etc.

 

Let's get the into the 21st Century and dash the idea to think 1- size buses are all good for all NYC Transit/MTA Bus route IMO.

[East New York]

The main reason I say is this. You only save a few dollars with 35 footers. The capacity barely changes, and we run way too many Subway shuttles. Not only that, but let's say we did have some. We have a bus shortage, and we send out a 35 footer on a LGA route. 1 word: Disaster! Not only that, but 40fters are more solid, which I think is a major deciding factor when making a bus order as well. We would tear up a 35 foot low-floor in no time! I just think we have way too many routes, and do way too many swaps and transfers to throw 35fters in the mix. If this wasn't the largest, and most demanding TA in the world, they might work.

 

I also think the B37, B39, B51, M18, Q74, Q79 and the others were beyond saving.

[Filip7370]

I didn't study so much the map of NYC, but I can tell that for such a central-built metropolis like New York there isn't any particular place for any mini-buses. Minibuses are a idea for low density and larger area cities. In transit minibuses are use to deliver small amount of passengers from a small and far distanced settlement, to the nearest high capability transport corridor f.e. Subway line, train line, commuter-rail. If there aren't any problems about the size of standard buses in the most crowded parts of the network so there isn't any reason do descend the capacity of those lines by shrinking the vehicles.

[LRG]

I don't see the MTA getting 35-footers at all.

[uptown164]

I didn't study so much the map of NYC, but I can tell that for such a central-built metropolis like New York there isn't any particular place for any mini-buses. Minibuses are a idea for low density and larger area cities. In transit minibuses are use to deliver small amount of passengers from a small and far distanced settlement, to the nearest high capability transport corridor f.e. Subway line, train line, commuter-rail. If there aren't any problems about the size of standard buses in the most crowded parts of the network so there isn't any reason do descend the capacity of those lines by shrinking the vehicles.

 

Good point but your description fits staten island almost perfectly

[uptown164]

The main reason I say is this. You only save a few dollars with 35 footers. The capacity barely changes, and we run way too many Subway shuttles. Not only that, but let's say we did have some. We have a bus shortage, and we send out a 35 footer on a LGA route. 1 word: Disaster! Not only that, but 40fters are more solid, which I think is a major deciding factor when making a bus order as well. We would tear up a 35 foot low-floor in no time! I just think we have way too many routes, and do way too many swaps and transfers to throw 35fters in the mix. If this wasn't the largest, and most demanding TA in the world, they might work.

 

I also think the B37, B39, B51, M18, Q74, Q79 and the others were beyond saving.

 

what about getting like 30-45 of them for staten island and why are there so many bus swaps in the first place

[LRG]

what about getting like 30-45 of them for staten island

 

It's not necessary. Point blank.

[B35 via Church]

Agreed with everyone that pretty much disagrees w/ this idea...

 

Filip hit the nail right on the head with this one !

Good post there, fam.

 

 

 

 

just an example:

- Minibuses work out there in eastern suffolk county b/c the routes that run on them out there, have a daily ridership of like... 6

 

Even of the routes that run on high headways in the city, what route has that low of a daily ridership stat here in NYC.... There's always the propensity of a low(er) utilized route in NYC to be SRO at any given point (the old Q79 was a good example of this)....

 

out there in suffolk on the 7E, and the 5A, you aint seeing a double digit amt. of people on those routes.

 

NYC is far more dense.... We have our own problems to worry about.

Yes, a minibus would be a bad investment.

[East New York]

what about getting like 30-45 of them for staten island and why are there so many bus swaps in the first place

 

Even though Staten Island sees the lowest overall ridership of any borough, 35footers would be limited as to where they could go. Swaps and transfers are done to ballance out fleet mileage, so you don't have a bus in Staten Island with 400,000 miles on it, and a bus of the same model year in The Bronx with 700,000 miles on it. That's my main reason for saying no to the 35fters.

[checkmatechamp13]

Good point but your description fits staten island almost perfectly

 

But that's the thing-that the lowest-ridership routes (the (S54), (S55), (S56), and (S57)) don't get a lot of riders during off-peak hours, but they get a lot of students. They are the only ones where the whole route doesn't get a lot of riders. The (S74) and (S78) don't get a lot of riders south of Richmond Avenue, but people would complain if the buses were switched mid-route.

 

The only type of route it would work on would be a route that is always empty whenever it runs. The only route that would fit this description would be the former (S60). For all of the other routes, you have the problem of switching the buses back and forth during peak hours, and the problems that it would cause if the buses were delayed.

[metsfan]

uses eldorado busses to good effect.

 

 

 

- A

[Shortline Bus]

uses eldorado busses to good effect.

 

 

 

- A

 

 

I riden it a couple of times while in Bucks County. I think it could be a good choice for smaller 35-foot bus as well.

 

Again just common sense you would only buy a small amount for NYCT/(MTA)bus and place them in depots with low used lines.

 

And never use them for subway shuttles or mega lines like the BX12, M15, Q44, B41, B46, B44, etc.

[Gramps]

I disagree ENY. Bee Line uses 35-foot Orion for their lower used buses mainly in Northern Westchester such as the #10, #12 and #16.

 

Bee-Line got rid of all their vans because they were not cost effective. Still have all the costs associated with labor.

 

BTW - The small Orions that the Bee-Line have are 30 footers x 96 inches. They haven't had 35 foot buses since the RTS days.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

I think it will be a good idea for the MTA to buy some minibuses for some service

 

 

I agree. CDTA uses them. They're sort of antiartics. Minibuses would come in handy on certain SI bus routes. And no doubt in other counties in territory.

[checkmatechamp13]

But the problem with minibuses is that they only work when the ridership is consistently low. I don't know how crowded the (S55)/(S56) get, but, to my knowledge, the (S54)/(S57) can get pretty crowded during school hours.

Even if you run regular buses during peak hours, you still have the issues of switching the fleets.

Let's say it is AM rush hour and you are running a regular 40-foot bus. At 10AM when the rush hour is over, you have to return it to the depot, and pick up a minibus. At 2PM when schools start to let out, now you have to bring back the minibus to the depot and pick up a regular bus, but, there is the chance that there is traffic on the road, and now the bus is late getting back on the road and ends up being crushloaded. At the end of rush hour at about 7PM, you now have to switch the 40-foot bus for a minibus for the evening period.

 

You see where I am getting with this-every time you have to deadhead, you waste resources, and there is the potential for a problem in switching the buses (a bus might not be available, or there might be traffic getting to/from the depot, causing the buses to be delayed in getting on/off of the road). All this, and you have to maintain service levels while this is going on, and a deadheading bus can't run the full route unless it ends near a depot.

 

In the end, the MTA would spend more on additional labor with the deadheading involved, as well as the problems that could arise, than it would if it just ran 40-foot buses everywhere. A route that could use minibuses has to fit a very specific description that 99% of the routes in the system don't fit, which is a route that has low ridership at all of the hours that it runs, and most of those routes have been eliminated.

 

The routes I could've seen this working on would be the (S60) and weekend (S54), but both of those routes have been eliminated. The only remaining routes would be the (S42) and weekend (S57).

[Santa Fe via Willow]

^ Yeah, the late (S42), (S60) & weekend (S54) could've used minibuses. (S60) minibuses could've been based out of Meredith.

 

Minibuses for weekend (S57)s isn't a bad idea.

[Eric B]

I've always said they should get minibuses to get around the weight restrictions on the Brooklyn Bridge, which they did look into adding service to in the East River Crossings study.

That would have done better than the (B51), since it would be much more direct.

[uptown164]

Even though Staten Island sees the lowest overall ridership of any borough, 35footers would be limited as to where they could go. Swaps and transfers are done to ballance out fleet mileage, so you don't have a bus in Staten Island with 400,000 miles on it, and a bus of the same model year in The Bronx with 700,000 miles on it. That's my main reason for saying no to the 35fters.

 

I learn something new from you guys every day thanks

[Filip7370]

About this Staten Island problem. If there is a low frequency of riders during peak-off time and a great number of student by school time, thats the point where nothing better is to separate 2 lines. One a peak hour line run with a standard 40-footer (if it is a school line, than it can be run with the oldest part of fleet, prepared for retirement), and a second all time run by a 30-footer or minibus. Minibuses are most suitable for a typical US suburbans. For example some streets "vertical" are operated by a normal lines, and many "horizontal" could be operated by a minibuses gathering people for changing stops on the corners. I hope You get my point.

[uptown164]

About this Staten Island problem. If there is a low frequency of riders during peak-off time and a great number of student by school time, thats the point where nothing better is to separate 2 lines. One a peak hour line run with a standard 40-footer (if it is a school line, than it can be run with the oldest part of fleet, prepared for retirement), and a second all time run by a 30-footer or minibus. Minibuses are most suitable for a typical US suburbans. For example some streets "vertical" are operated by a normal lines, and many "horizontal" could be operated by a minibuses gathering people for changing stops on the corners. I hope You get my point.

 

Thats exactly how the are used in San Diego especially in El Cajon area

[Shortline Bus]

Thats exactly how the are used in San Diego especially in El Cajon area

 

Not to get too off topic by My Mom/Sister and Her Hubby live near Chula Vista in San Diego.

 

Also the North County MTS buses use 30-35 foot buses on lower used routes as well.

[Filip7370]

If somebody didn't see my idea here's a drawning:

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Red: Standard transit lines

Blue: Minibus lines

Orange: Subway/Commuter rail

Green: Possible changing points

[Gotham Bus Co]

I think it will be a good idea for the MTA to buy some minibuses for some service

 

 

I think not. It would mean a whole new fleet, a whole new parts inventory, new maintenance training - all with the same labor cost as 40-foot buses.