The Next 745 Plus....

[East New York]

From the start of 2011 through 2012 we will take delivery of approximately 745 new local (40 foot standard) buses. 785 buses in total if you include LIB. In this thread, fantasy meets reality. I want to know what depots you all would send these buses too. But you need to have good reason as to why certain buses should go certain places. Below you will see a breakdown of what buses we will be receiving, where I think they should go, and why. What do you all think? I would love comments and constructive criticism from all.

 

Note: DesignLine not included in this scenario.

Let's have some fun with all these new buses!!!!

 

 

DBNA

-90 EPA2010 3G Orion VII's

-40 EPA2010 3G Orion VII CNG's for LIB

 

New Flyer

-475 C40LFR's (with options)

-90 D40LFR's

 

NovaBus

-90 LFS'

 

 

Depots That Need New Buses

 

 

Bronx

-West Farms: 30(base), 41(option), 71 total C40LFR's to replace Orion V's, and send(sell) 20 OG Orion VII's to Long Island Bus.

 

Brooklyn

-East New York: 30 3G's, 25 OG's, and take *B60 from GA.

-Fresh Pond: 60 D40's to replace RTS'.

-Jackie Gleason: 60(base), 140(option), 200 total C40LRF's to replace O5's and C40LF's.

-Spring Creek: 10(base), 44(option), 54 total C40LRF's replace O5's, send 25 OG's to ENY.

-Ulmer Park: 75 LFS' to replace RTS'.

 

Manhattan

-126th Street: 15 LFS' with the ZF Transmissions because they will be common with the LFSA's.

 

Queens

-College Point: 35(base), 115(option) 150 total CNG's to replace entire fleet of Orion V's.

-LaGuardia: 60 3G's, send NG's 4020-4039, 4500-4512 to QV.

-Queens Village: 33 NG's from LGA, about *85 OG's from BP, and JFK to replace RTS'.

 

 

* Now the following is my scenario of where the next 45 foot express coaches, and 60 foot articulated coaches could go. Exact number of next orders not yet known.

 

EDIT: 90 Express Coach award goes to Provost Car.

 

Express Coaches:

-aproximately 80 all to Castleton to retire MCI's, and send some to other depots.

 

NovaBus LFS Articulated Coaches: about 177....

-126th Street: 25 for regular service/replace first D60's.

-Baisley Park: 46 for regular service.

-Flatbush: 20 for B44 SBS, and to replace RTS'

-Grand Avenue: 25 for B44 SBS, send B60 to ENY.

-JFK: 26 for regular service.

-Ulmer Park: 10 for regular service.

-25 to replace the first D60's out of various depots.

New York City Transit/Bus Company

 

 

Nassau Division(This could apply to either scenario of MTA dropping or retaining LIB)

-40 3G Orion VII CNG's

-20 OG Orion VII CNG's from West Farms.(Sale or transfer)

Long Island Bus

[Bill from Maspeth]

I can't justify LGA giving up all but 17 of their 50 new NG's to QV. Why should they be saddled with new buses already beat to shit?

 

Besides, there are just 4 beese in the 4020-4039 batch equipped with luggage racks. This is a joke as I rode one the other day on the Q67. They belong on an airport route. They started this conversion a couple of months ago.

 

As for giving up 4500-4512 (13), then they would only have 17 left out of the original 50: 4483-4499. Silly to have such a small oddball fleet.

[R44 CNG]

Aw maan, nothing for JA, I aspected that, well at least QV is near by:cool:

[NovaBus 5121]

I agree with some of your points, I guess I'll just discuss some criticisms.

WF's is fine, however with 332 NF Artics in the bronx (and their performance is low to mediocre) and bet 2011-2012 will be 9-15 years old, some NovaBus Artics should be sent their to help with the fleet (how many, not sure)

 

Most of brooklyn I'm fine with, however, is there anyroom for the B60 at ENY? That'll be about 265-275 total buses and isn't it already overcrowded?

 

I won't speak on Laguardia but I feel that QV should simply get a brand new batch of buses, maybe 60-80 and keep the OG's at laguardia/bp.

 

The express buses coaches I won't comment on.

 

10 artics at UP is pretty small, if anything, I would attempt to convert one route (ex B6 limited) to artic use.

 

That's it for now.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Joel Up Front]

So the MTA is playing "LIB is our bastard child" and giving it OG CNGs?

[Novabus 5000]

 

[East New York]

I can't justify LGA giving up all but 17 of their 50 new NG's to QV. Why should they be saddled with new buses already beat to shit?

 

Besides, there are just 4 beese in the 4020-4039 batch equipped with luggage racks. This is a joke as I rode one the other day on the Q67. They belong on an airport route. They started this conversion a couple of months ago.

 

As for giving up 4500-4512 (13), then they would only have 17 left out of the original 50: 4483-4499. Silly to have such a small oddball fleet.

 

You bring up a great point. But here is why I chose this. LGA is way too hard on hybrids, so I figure the NG's would basicly be sent to QV. They are barely a year old, and QV needs some new buses. They aren't that bad, they just need to be better taken care of. The small batch of 17 can remain. It won't really be an oddball batch because LGA would have OG's and 3G's, so there will still be some fleet commonality. I think diesels are best at LGA along with the OG's. In order to get around the luggage rack issue, the 4000's can stay, and 4400's can go along with the 4500's. Eventually the remaining 17 can be swapped out for more OG's. Not only that, but QV has had some maintenance issues in the past. Their 6400's used to sound horrible!! So I figure they can prove themselves with the NG's, and go from there.

 

Aw maan, nothing for JA, I aspected that, well at least QV is near by:cool:

 

JAM only needs about 30-35 new buses. They just got 75 NG's, so the RTS' will be fine until late 2012.

 

I agree with some of your points, I guess I'll just discuss some criticisms.

WF's is fine, however with 332 NF Artics in the bronx (and their performance is low to mediocre) and bet 2011-2012 will be 9-15 years old, some NovaBus Artics should be sent their to help with the fleet (how many, not sure)

 

Most of brooklyn I'm fine with, however, is there anyroom for the B60 at ENY? That'll be about 265-275 total buses and isn't it already overcrowded?

 

I won't speak on Laguardia but I feel that QV should simply get a brand new batch of buses, maybe 60-80 and keep the OG's at laguardia/bp.

 

The express buses coaches I won't comment on.

 

10 artics at UP is pretty small, if anything, I would attempt to convert one route (ex B6 limited) to artic use.

 

That's it for now.

 

Newer artics will replace the oldest (1000-1109, 5250, 5251) anyway, so the Bronx stands to get a few new buses. About half of them have already been retired. And by 2012, the oldest NF artics still in service will be 13 years old. So they won't have to be replaced until 2013.

 

The B60 would be fine at ENY. Think back to the days before Grand Avenue opened. ENY has an "overflow lot" around the corner adjacent to the storage lot, so that won't be an issue. Plus most all the museum buses are now at Amsterdam.

 

As far as QV getting new buses, I would just send 33 NG's over there, and some OG's from BP, and JFK, and they will be fine. BP and JFK will loose a few OG's and retire all the older Orion's anyway when they get their combined 72 new artics. Plus, I think QV will end up getting new buses out of the next order in 2011-2012 after all these come in.

 

I like this thread.

 

So the biggest problem we'd see with that scenario, then, is that SI would have just an ancient fleet of 40-footers. The median age there would be around 13-14 years old, since you assume those O5s would be in the running for another two or so years.

 

What to do?

 

The median age of the entire fleet would actually be about 10 years. SI has about 190 Orion V's that will likely be around until 2013. So they are good until then. The 159 NG's balance things out.

 

So the MTA is playing "LIB is our bastard child" and giving it OG CNGs?

 

This is a "what would you do thread." And yes, I would send LIB some OG's when the New Flyers came in. It's better than nothing, and they are still newer than the O5's they have now.

 

 

 

Nice!!! I wish we knew what the numbers were going to be.

[T J Trainman]

I think LGA has enough new JUNK and I dont see any 3Gs or what have you going there because, they to, will get the shit beat out of them!!!! Leave LGA as is if anything they need more RTSs or bee liners. Also LGA is slowly getting rid of the 3700s.....3742-3748 are now at FR......

[Q43 Floral Park]

QV got the very 1st Hybrids and those buses put that depot through hell with teething issues. The 6400s were a different story, I'm not sure what went wrong but I can attest to the fact that you did better waiting for an RTS then an O7 because on more than one occassion I have seen at least 3 dead on a 10 block stretch of Union and been on several that either went up in smoke or died randomly. That being said, they don't deserve to get buses from LGA that everyone knows will need a lot of upkeep. The 6400s have gotten a lot of work but they still fall apart at times. Let LGA deal with the buses they screwed up and send QV new ones.

 

I agree with Novabus 5121, the Bx is kinda in need of some New Artics. KB has trouble keeping up with service and they could stand to throw some on the Bx3

[Smooth]

Wow 745 buses. I thought that the MTA was absolutly broke. At least thats what they told the public. Getting new buses is great. Specially knowing that they are going back to Diesel. I just think where is the money coming from?

[R110B]

Wow 745 buses. I thought that the MTA was absolutly broke. At least thats what they told the public. Getting new buses is great. Specially knowing that they are going back to Diesel. I just think where is the money coming from?

The buses are being paid from their Capital Budget and not their Operating budget that's broke and in debt.

[aemoreira81]

Wow 745 buses. I thought that the MTA was absolutly broke. At least thats what they told the public. Getting new buses is great. Specially knowing that they are going back to Diesel. I just think where is the money coming from?

 

However, transit buses are designed to only last 12 years or 500,000 miles.

 

Using those standards, there are over 900 or so buses, as follows:

 

1. 1995 Orion V diesel (84)

2. 1995-1996 Nova Bus RTS (about 420)

3. 1996-1998 New Flyer D60HF (about 65)

5. 1997-1999 Orion V CNG (about 230)

6. 1998-2000 New Flyer C40LF (189)

 

I would not be surprised if the best 100 Nova Bus RTSs from 1996 were rebuilt.

[Queens Surface]

QV got the very 1st Hybrids and those buses put that depot through hell with teething issues. The 6400s were a different story, I'm not sure what went wrong but I can attest to the fact that you did better waiting for an RTS then an O7 because on more than one occassion I have seen at least 3 dead on a 10 block stretch of Union and been on several that either went up in smoke or died randomly. That being said, they don't deserve to get buses from LGA that everyone knows will need a lot of upkeep. The 6400s have gotten a lot of work but they still fall apart at times. Let LGA deal with the buses they screwed up and send QV new ones.

 

I agree with Novabus 5121, the Bx is kinda in need of some New Artics. KB has trouble keeping up with service and they could stand to throw some on the Bx3

 

LMAO, QV ran those 6400s to the ground, they ride worse than the 600s Vs. Their RTS' seem to be way more solid than those OGs. cough IMO That is a good thing cough

[East New York]

QV got the very 1st Hybrids and those buses put that depot through hell with teething issues. The 6400s were a different story, I'm not sure what went wrong but I can attest to the fact that you did better waiting for an RTS then an O7 because on more than one occassion I have seen at least 3 dead on a 10 block stretch of Union and been on several that either went up in smoke or died randomly. That being said, they don't deserve to get buses from LGA that everyone knows will need a lot of upkeep. The 6400s have gotten a lot of work but they still fall apart at times. Let LGA deal with the buses they screwed up and send QV new ones.

 

I agree with Novabus 5121, the Bx is kinda in need of some New Artics. KB has trouble keeping up with service and they could stand to throw some on the Bx3

 

I agree the Bx needs new artics. I just don't have an opinion on where I feel they should go. But I know that all the boroughs will eventually have new artics.

 

Now for the LGA thing, I'll go a little more in depth. I figure the best way to save money, and get the best out of the fleet is to rotate buses more often in say, phases. To try something new. LGA will be having their depot upgraded a little bit as well. So things should get better soon anyway.

 

LGA fleet now.

40 RTS

48 Orion V

68 OG

50 NG

 

Phase 1

60 RTS (20 from storage and other depots)

*46 O5 Retired, 2 out to JFK

60 3G

68 OG

17 NG (33 out to QV, with 15 more next)

 

Phase 2

72 RTS

60 3G

78 OG

 

This way, the TA could really conduct a test and see how well the buses hold up in LGA territory. After that, they should rotate some Novas, and New Flyers through there.

 

I think QV should get eventually get all 50 NG's from LGA, and some OG's from a couple other depots to replace some of those RTS'. I would like to see if QV would be able to maintain some ex-LGA buses. This way, the majority of the LGA fleet would be diesels, which will hold up better on their routes IMO. LGA and QV are both Queens HQ depots. They should have top notch maintenance teams. A shake-up like this would test them, and tell if is they would sink or swim.

 

I think LGA has enough new JUNK and I dont see any 3Gs or what have you going there because, they to, will get the shit beat out of them!!!! Leave LGA as is if anything they need more RTSs or bee liners. Also LGA is slowly getting rid of the 3700s.....3742-3748 are now at FR......

 

They just need more diesels of whatever kind they can get IMO. Give them some 3G's, more RTS', and they should be good till 2013 at least.

 

I would not be surprised if the best 100 Nova Bus RTSs from 1996 were rebuilt.

 

That would be nice! They are definitely some of my favorites.

[T J Trainman]

I remember only 1 bus that went from LGA to QV 9311 that bus has DOT style seats from 9776. As far as I know 9311 is still alive.

[Infamous85]

Queens Village needs new buses period, most of their RTSs are beat up, I've even seen a couple of buses with parts dragging in the street. I hope they get New Flyers.

 

Baisley Park and artics, I want to see that.

 

Jamaica, I know they just got 75 NG's but I'd like for them to get a little something. B) I wasn't even expecting them to get NG's since the depot is going to be replaced soon. They'll probably get something after that.

 

College Point needs new buses too, I hope they get New Flyers.

 

These are the main depots I'd like to get something new. QV needs new buses the most.

[East New York]

Replies in red.

 

Queens Village needs new buses period, most of their RTSs are beat up, I've even seen a couple of buses with parts dragging in the street. I hope they get New Flyers.

 

I think they would be fine with the 50 NG's from LGA, and about 20 OG's from BP and or JFK when they get new artics. This way, they have newer buses, and they can replace all their aging RTS'.

 

Baisley Park and artics, I want to see that.

 

You will soon enough, because they will definitely be getting some.

Jamaica, I know they just got 75 NG's but I'd like for them to get a little something. B) I wasn't even expecting them to get NG's since the depot is going to be replaced soon. They'll probably get something after that.

 

College Point needs new buses too, I hope they get New Flyers.

 

College Point's entire fleet will be replaced with New Flyer C40LFR's. I thought you knew that!

 

These are the main depots I'd like to get something new. QV needs new buses the most.

[Kanarsie Guy]

I like this Thread guess I will give it a try.

 

177 Artics

45 GH - (9)98 scrap/(36) 20 To WF/16 To CS

45 KB -(4)98 Scrap/(41) 25 To 126/16 To CS

72 BP-Bee line 05 scrap/ OG To JFK

15 WF- Scrap 96 V

 

All of the 1997-98 will be scrap or some kan be stored. For WF now the Bx15 will be all artics and the Bx36 at least half D60 same for the Q44.

 

475 CNG

200 JG - 98 C40 Scrap/00 C40 Rehab For storage

200 CPT - 98 Orions Scrap

55 SPK - OG To LGA/ Orions in Storage

20 WF - 99 05's To QV all locals CNG

 

Those 99 Orionv V would go to QV to kick some novas to brooklyn

 

270 Locals

90 3G

60 126 -96 Novas Scrap/(59) 98 & 99 Novas To FP

30 MJQ - 99 Novas To FLA

 

90 D40LFR

75 QV - Scrap 96 Novas or store

15 JA - Scrap Novas

 

90 Novas

75 UP - scrap 96 novas or store

15 ENY - Scrap 96 Novas

 

QV would lose most of its RTS with the 11 99 Orion V from WF that kicks those 98 Novas to JA to retire the last batch of 96 Novas in JA.Manhattan will become 90% Orion with the Novas moving to Brooklyn To scrap the 96 Novas. GA, FP & Maybe MV would be the last 3 MTA depot with 96 Novas (32) in FP,(10) GA, Less then 20 @ MV.

[Q43LTD]

I'm surprised to see Quill and 100 St not getting any new buses

[East New York]

I like this Thread guess I will give it a try.

 

All of the 1997-98 will be scrap or some kan be stored. For WF now the Bx15 will be all artics and the Bx36 at least half D60 same for the Q44.

 

475 CNG

200 CPT - 98 Orions Scrap

 

270 Locals

30 MJQ - 99 Novas To FLA

 

Manhattan will become 90% Orion with the Novas moving to Brooklyn To scrap the 96 Novas. GA, FP & Maybe MV would be the last 3 MTA depot with 96 Novas (32) in FP,(10) GA, Less then 20 @ MV.

 

Not bad at all. I updated my post because I forgot to include 2 depots. I just have a few questions/comments.

 

1. You got 50 buses too many at College point. You can place those somewhere else.

 

2. Why on earth would you want MJQ to get rid of their RTS, for more Orions?? There are only a little more than 120 RTS' left on the island. By no means am I looking forward to MJQ losing almost all of theirs. There are more than enough Orion's in Manhattan. More than 400 to be specific. And even though KB is a Bronx Depot, it's located in Manhattan, and has an additional 77 NG's. The RTS is an icon of New York City. I would hate to see the Division HQ get rid of them before 2015!

 

3. Everything else is cool though.

 

I'm surprised to see Quill and 100 St not getting any new buses

 

Quill doesn't need any at all IMO. The only buses they will need replaced are the 15 D60's, which can stick around till 2013. 100 St. will likely get some new ones soon. Whether they be D60HF's from other depots, or new Novas is the question. They are good until 2013 as well though.

[Kanarsie Guy]

Good question manhattan is already onits way to be all Orion the RTS are odd balls there. As for those 50 extra send them to WF To scrap there 98 Orions still leaving all CNG 40FT. I would keep Most of the 00 C40LF in storage u never know how things shake out we could need those.

 

Almost for got the 80 Express

60 - Yukon

20 - UP send 4300-4315 and 5 28Xx To CAS

Scrap the 98 MCI in YUK the 43xx are still young and UP does put as much wear and tear as SI.

[KNIGHTRIDER3:16]

College Pt doen't need new buses cuz we are bus killas and we deserve used RTS's and 600 6000 dsl and give LGA 35xx-37xx and A couple of new buses just to say that got new buses but one thing is for sure they need to give CPT or Casey those Bee liine Orions

[Q43LTD]

Quill doesn't need any at all IMO. The only buses they will need replaced are the 15 D60's, which can stick around till 2013. 100 St. will likely get some new ones soon. Whether they be D60HF's from other depots, or new Novas is the question. They are good until 2013 as well though.

I figured MJQ would need some since the M34 will be SBS. It wouldn't look right with NG's

[gtNovaBusRTS9369]

Not bad at all. I updated my post because I forgot to include 2 depots. I just have a few questions/comments.

 

2. Why on earth would you want MJQ to get rid of their RTS, for more Orions?? There are only a little more than 120 RTS' left on the island. By no means am I looking forward to MJQ losing almost all of theirs. There are more than enough Orion's in Manhattan. More than 400 to be specific. And even though KB is a Bronx Depot, it's located in Manhattan, and has an additional 77 NG's. The RTS is an icon of New York City. I would hate to see the Division HQ get rid of them before 2015!

 

 

Tell that to Quill. They are getting rid of some of their RTS'es as I was told. Some may go to 126 Street Depot. Of course I disagree with them getting rid of their RTS'es but yeah:(. I hardly see them whenever I come to Manhattan instead I mainly see their Hybrids.

 

 

I would not be surprised if the best 100 Nova Bus RTSs from 1996 were rebuilt.

 

That's something they should have been doing with their older buses all aong that way they would be just as the newer buses in some ways. Plus it's cheaper to do so than buying newer buses. Don't get me doing there are some Hybrids I do favor such as the NG's but that's just me (Old School).

 

QV got the very 1st Hybrids and those buses put that depot through hell with teething issues. The 6400s were a different story, I'm not sure what went wrong but I can attest to the fact that you did better waiting for an RTS then an O7 because on more than one occassion I have seen at least 3 dead on a 10 block stretch of Union and been on several that either went up in smoke or died randomly. That being said, they don't deserve to get buses from LGA that everyone knows will need a lot of upkeep. The 6400s have gotten a lot of work but they still fall apart at times. Let LGA deal with the buses they screwed up and send QV new ones.

 

 

These failures from these buses had to happen:tdown: because a little after those things was born those Orions kept having personal power failures so yeah. Plus it is true that they were a first of their kind however I have no doubt that the stupid-a** MTA didn't test these that well (If they did at all of course).