Experts say plans to extend 7 line subway to New Jersey are a dead end, feds won't fund it

[Trainmaster5]

Experts say plans to extend line subway to New Jersey are a dead end, feds won't fund it

Today 11-18-10

 

The chances of a subway line running to New Jersey anytime soon hover between slim and none, a top transportation official said Wednesday.

 

Transportation planners also raised a skeptical eye toward the proposal, saying the $3 billion in federal funds supporters are counting on for the extension of the line to Secaucus almost certainly won't be available.

 

"The $3 billion has disappeared," said Jeff Zupan, senior transportation fellow at the Regional Plan Association. "They're not going to turn around and say, 'okay, you have a better idea now, we'll give you the money.' It's not going to happen."

 

The money was supposed to go toward a Hudson River rail tunnel that would allow more trains to run between New York and New Jersey.

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/11/18/2010-11-18_experts_say_plans_to_extend_7_line_subway_to_new_jersey_are_a_dead_end_feds_wont.html#ixzz15erjV6uX

 

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New York Studies Extending Subway Line to New Jersey

From 11-16-10

 

Ever since Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey killed an expensive plan for a new commuter rail tunnel to Manhattan, the Bloomberg administration has been working on an alternative: run the subway train under the Hudson River.

 

The plan envisions the stretching from 34th Street on the Far West Side of Manhattan to Secaucus, N.J., where there is a connection to New Jersey Transit trains. It would extend the New York City subway outside the city for the first time, giving New Jersey commuters direct access to Times Square, Grand Central Terminal and Queens, and to almost every line in the system.

 

Like the project scuttled by Mr. Christie, this proposed tunnel would expand a regional transportation system already operating at capacity and would double the number of trains traveling between the two states during peak hours. But it would do so at about half the cost, an estimated $5.3 billion, according to a closely guarded, four-page memorandum circulated by the city’s Hudson Yards Development Corporation.

 

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/nyregion/17tunnel.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

[IRT Bronx Express]

Money, money, money... is the extension really that neccessary?

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[LRG]

Would the subway even be allowed to operate within New Jersey's jurisdiction?

[metsfan]

Uh yea um.... Are you being serious?

 

Subway has no legal ability to cross city limits let alone state lines.

 

I'm sorry i just...

 

Ok i'm going to stop there cuz yea.

 

- A

[Urbanfortitude]

NJ doesnt deserve one of our subway lines. let 'em ride Path

[Trainmaster5]

I didn't post the link ,(didn't know how), but the gist of the article is that the states of New York and New Jersey as well as the PANY&NJ would have to study the feasability of such a proposal and such. Obviously I'm aware of the limitations of the NYCT and the MTA as far as the legalities go but the implications of the PANY&NJ make this somewhat murkier. The PA does have powers that neither the MTA nor NJT have as far as regional transport goes. After I read the article I got the impression that this was a "trial balloon" for real estate and transportation types to make the West Side properties worth more. You've even got Bloomberg, both governor's offices, and Senator Schumer weighing in on the project. Federal dollars can make little legalities go "poof" in a heartbeat. I have no horse in this race. I'm newly retired from NYCT and I just wanted to see what the forum members thought. Remember we're still waiting for phase 1 of the SAS to be completed so I'm not talking about a "shovel ready" project but a study.

[Eric B]

This was an old plan. (Way before the current West Side expansion was thought of).

So it seems both the current extension, and the desire to replace the new tunnel plan would put this idea back on the table.

Part of the original version of the plan was to move the Port Authority Bus Terminal to Secaucus as well.

[Roadcruiser1]

Well don't shout never the George Washington Bridge was design for rapid transit and I am sure that someone would put a subway line on it someday.

[Nova RTS 9147]

I didn't post the link ,(didn't know how), but the gist of the article is that the states of New York and New Jersey as well as the PANY&NJ would have to study the feasability of such a proposal and such. Obviously I'm aware of the limitations of the NYCT and the MTA as far as the legalities go but the implications of the PANY&NJ make this somewhat murkier. The PA does have powers that neither the MTA nor NJT have as far as regional transport goes. After I read the article I got the impression that this was a "trial balloon" for real estate and transportation types to make the West Side properties worth more. You've even got Bloomberg, both governor's offices, and Senator Schumer weighing in on the project. Federal dollars can make little legalities go "poof" in a heartbeat. I have no horse in this race. I'm newly retired from NYCT and I just wanted to see what the forum members thought. Remember we're still waiting for phase 1 of the SAS to be completed so I'm not talking about a "shovel ready" project but a study.

 

Two points I want to make

 

1. Congratulations on retiring

 

2. What purpose will this extension serve? It doesn't address the problems the old ARC tunnel addressed, with twice the complications (instead of the lack of cash, now we have to watch the legality theatre of the operating in PANJNY territory)

[Roadcruiser1]

Well tell that to the people that want to extend the Hudson Bergen Light Rail to Staten Island. The results if it's the same from Manhattan to New Jersey would be the same from Staten Island to New Jersey.

[553 Bridgeton]

"This is a Secaucus bound Local Train"

 

Sounds like a good idea, but this would almost certainly have a big effect on PATH.

[Roadcruiser1]

That would be serious affect on PATH is right. People would pay $2.50 rather then $5.50 to get to Manhattan. If this ever happens ask New Jersey for their money too since it's going to benefit them too. Anyway I was looking around and found out this guy named VanShnookenRaggen made a map of a extension to New Jersey. Well to me the map seems to be following the right course to the (MTA)'s proposal.

 

[IRT Bronx Express]

*Deleted post*

[553 Bridgeton]

That would be serious affect on PATH is right. People would pay $2.50 rather then $5.50 to get to Manhattan.

 

And if this plan somehow takes a left turn and goes through, i am sure PATH would get invovled and push to stop it. New Jersey Transit wouldnt like it either.

[Tokkemon]

Seriously, if a subway extension was created, I would most certainly use that over the NJT. Especially since I can get to the East Side very quickly with the .

[EE Broadway Local]

Look at Google Maps, a subway tunnel from West 34th Street would be at approximately 19th Street in Weehawken, New Jersey. The would then travel under Weehawken, Union City, North Bergen to Secaucus.

[Roadcruiser1]

Not unless if PATH and the New Jersey Transit get's some of the profits this new potential line would make.

[553 Bridgeton]

If this goes through and goes to Journal Sq, then I say PATH will turn into a secondary. Only ppl that need to get to WTC will use it. This would be a very easy access point to the East Side Lines. This would kill NJTs routes that go to PABT.

[Pablo M 201]

I didn't post the link ,(didn't know how), but the gist of the article is that the states of New York and New Jersey as well as the PANY&NJ would have to study the feasability of such a proposal and such. Obviously I'm aware of the limitations of the NYCT and the MTA as far as the legalities go but the implications of the PANY&NJ make this somewhat murkier. The PA does have powers that neither the MTA nor NJT have as far as regional transport goes. After I read the article I got the impression that this was a "trial balloon" for real estate and transportation types to make the West Side properties worth more. You've even got Bloomberg, both governor's offices, and Senator Schumer weighing in on the project. Federal dollars can make little legalities go "poof" in a heartbeat. I have no horse in this race. I'm newly retired from NYCT and I just wanted to see what the forum members thought. Remember we're still waiting for phase 1 of the SAS to be completed so I'm not talking about a "shovel ready" project but a study.

 

You hit the nail right on the head. The true power to have a final say in this will be the PANYNJ. They have a reason for everything, even if it plays out over a long period of time. They'll have something up their sleeves if an extension of the to NJ goes through....ever....

 

This idea of extending the to NJ is just that, an idea. They aren't serious. It'll be a serious topic if it remains in talks with officials and whatnot for the next year or so.

[Roadcruiser1]

This is going to be PATH's worse nightmare if it goes through. I gurantee you if this plan is real, if it's going to be feasible, and if it's going to be approved by New York and New Jersey PATH is going to try to kill this plan. They will do whatever is in their power to stop it. Also I read in the New York Times this line extension would be built by the Port Authority. If the PATH is operated by the Port Authority then they might be ok with this extension if they would profit from it. If they don't then this plan would be buried 6 feet under.

[FamousNYLover]

That means I could go to NJ, but folks might not like it because it look like making longest trips.

I still going to use either PATH or trains.

[metsfan]

I'm just going to come out and say it.

 

The sheer stupidity of this idea knocks me hard on the floor.

 

Here's why:

 

You can't do a tunnel, too expensive for fantasyland extension of one limited capacity line.

 

You can't make a bridge, the line is too deep.

 

There is no where to run the line in NJ.

 

Metrocards for service do not work in NJ. Try to buy a monthly metrocard at a PATH station, i'll bet you won't find the option. Pay per ride, sure, but passes won't.

 

There is no demand at all for such a service that A. cannot be provided by PATH or direct trains from NYP. B. new tunnels such as in the ARC plan.

 

And, who is going to pay for this? Not NJ that's for sure.

 

As for NJ not deserving the subway, uh dude, have you ever even been to NJ? Don't get me wrong, i love NYC, but the subway is more showing of its age than every other transportation system in the country. It's falling apart. Maybe with some proper funding it could get the attention it needs, but please, don't say such stupid things. NYC has neglected its railroads, NJ has not. Doubt me? Try riding any 30 miles on LIRR or NJTR then get back to me.

 

- A

[T to Dyre Avenue]

One poster on SubChat mentioned extending the to Jersey on several occasions as a "cheaper" alternative to the ARC tunnel. I don't think it's a terrible idea. We're talking about another trans-Hudson tunnel that would run through a transit-dependent part of NJ and could potentially cause many NJ Transit bus riders to switch to the extension. Yes, the Port Authority could be a major pain in the ass if they object to any NYC subway extension into Jersey, but then again, do they have a better idea? Are they planning to build another PATH line between Jersey and Midtown that would run via Union City and Weehawken? If not, then they need to either partner with the if they get serious about this idea or shut up and stay out of the way.

[Roadcruiser1]

Well I guess the New York City Subway and the has gone from realism to fantasy map drawing. They don't focus on the places where New York still needs subway service like Eastern Queens, Eastern Bronx, Red Hook, Governor's Island, Central Bronx, Cemetery Way in Queens, Utica Avenue, the southern section of Nostrand Avenue, a 34th Street Crosstown Line, a LaGuardia Airport extension, Eastern Manhattan (Second Avenue Subway), Western Manhattan (10-12th Avenue), a far Western Bronx (Riverdale) extension, Staten Island, and Dyker Heights. Instead we are spending a chunk of our money for the people that don't even live in New York State. This what people were complaining about on the NY Times forum. Why don't we finish serving the rest of New York City first, and then we will start on New Jersey. We haven't even finish helping everyone in New York and we can't afford New Jersey. This money would be better spent to hire more work crews and machinery on Second Avenue then New Jersey. I am not against New Jersey just this isn't the time.