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Experts say plans to extend 7 line subway to New Jersey are a dead end, feds won't fund it


Trainmaster5

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Not really it's only going to gain like 3 or 4 miles not enough to effect the (7) that badly. It's the new people that would spill into the (7) that would get me worried. Besides they should focus on extending it 5 miles into Eastern Queens while they are at it. They are unserved and it's in the original Flushing Line proposal too.

 

The new people really wouldn't be an issue. Remember, rush hour is in the opposite direction if you're coming from NJ.

 

Mornings:

Queens-bound from Secaucus Junction to Grand Central is crowded; thereafter, it's empty

New Jersey-bound from Flushing to Times Square is crowded; thereafter, it's empty

 

And the reverse in the evenings. There would be no time when NJ commuters and Queens commuters would be sharing a train since they will always be going in opposite directions (much like commuters from Stuyvesant Heights and Washington Heights on the (A) never share trains). It would actually make the (7) more cost-effective since both directions would be heavily utilized, a problem the (7) has right now in the off-peak direction as it doesn't go through the CBD, just into it.

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I was going to say the same thing. The issues would arise more so from a Queens Extension. with crowd flow. with what would seem abit more people. interesting maybe the crowd coming into Flushing would be spread out abit more via more stations. as there would be stations closer to there home area.. but coming into Manhattan all the same.

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Yea, but then you'd have the people from Queens and the people from New Jersey all crowding onto the same platforms at the same time.

 

So what? The platforms in Midtown are never anywhere close to so crowded that they couldn't fit more people in. The real issues with crowding arise from extensions in Queens, not extensions to NJ.

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We were not being mean we were telling the truth. The New York City Subway isn't suppose to even leave state or city borders. Any line that does this is a railroad and the only way that would happen in your idea is to have PATH and the LIRR do a joint extension it doesn't belong with the (7), and again people the (MTA) would never sell the Flushing Line even to make it into a railraod. The (7) line is one of the most profitable lines for the (MTA) and they won't sell it not even for a million dollars. The only reason why Bloomberg is even considering this is to alleviate people from using their cars, to promote mass transit, and to subsitute for the Access To The Region's Core (ARC) PATH Tunnel.

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Plus crowding is universal issue that the subway system is going to deal with in the up and coming decades. With the Population expanding. Go to Bedford ave in the mornings (L) Urban Planing and Civil Engineering is going to put the test for sure. Problems and Solutions name of the game.

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My idea is since the Canarsie Line is a 2 track line you could have one more service running on it. If the (7) goes through to New Jersey you could send one of the Canarsie Line services down 9th or 10th Avenue to South Ferry and you can send the (L) up 10th Avenue to 59th Street. You could have people transfer to the (1) to go up even farther. For 34th Street to alleviate the congestion I suggest something like the 42nd Street Shuttle. Except it's called the 34th Street Shuttle.

 

Truthfully if we do want to make the (7) B division we don't have to dig a new tunnel all they have to do is widen the Steinway Tubes. I am sure they can do that without stopping (7) service. The platforms could be shaved off a bit so cars like the R68's and R160's both B division cars can use it. Though if they do make it B division I suggest that we keep it as a (7) to retain it's heritage as being an A division line.

 

If we extend into New Jersey they might change the name from the New York City Subway to the New York City and Hoboken Subway, because the (7) would run by Hoboken to get to Secaucus.

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Road the question is who say's the rule can't change? A group of people at some point made this rule. To make things easier to maintain or run what the reason maybe have been.. Why can't a group a people repeal and make new rules? This is the main issue with national grid.. there's always some rule or limitation. There needs to be a major overhaul of everything. The US is so far behind.

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If the (7) of the future is extended into Eastern Queens and New Jersey then more people would load and use the (7) in Queens, and people would use it in New Jersey. Also I find it very stupid that even though our government is in debt we still don't give money to fund and extend mass transit. We keep burning oil from the fuc*ing Middle East everyday, and if the government doesn't do something now the future generation of Americans are going to suffer. The government rather spend their moneys on corporations rather then people. Hey that is what you get for voting stupid people into the White House and Congress. All you are going to get is a bunch of stupid monkeys on their typewriters writing stupid stuff. All the people that work for our government basically almost has an IQ of a complete 0. They decide to focus on the car industry rather then focus on our subway and mass transit opportunites. People in New Jersey want a rail option to New York and this is what the government does.

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There is nothing to prevent NYC TA from going into another county or state, requisite legal steps of course need to be taken. The New York subways were built by 2 private companies (the IRT and BMT) and the third system by the city of New York (the IND). The only reason they did not go into other counties was when they were created, there was no reason to go beyond the NYC borders. It is now the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, with emphasis of Metropolitan. Boston's subway just to name one goes into neighboring counties. The original system stayed within the city but as the region grew the system went out of the city. I will agree that the monies could be better spent on projects in NYC but that's another issue; politics. The other issue is how quickly can the MTA build the line. It took Metro-North 5 years to rebuild (tracks already there) 5 miles of the Harlem Line from Dover Plains to Wassaic. Railroaders years ago used to lay down a mile of track a day. Now its 1 mile a year on an established right of way.

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The system is funded by tax dollars. the reason NYCTA is restricted is because you can't spend CITY taxes, taxes collect by and for city, to advance the needs of non city dwellers. People in NJ don't pay any taxes that fund the MTA, they should no be receiving MTA services.

 

my thoughts exactly. the MTA can't even afford to maintain the subways in NYC where there are plenty of under served areas as it is, let alone allocate funds and resources to cater to the needs of NJ residents who don't? this is bloomberg's idea of a bright idea? give me a break. he's an absolute idiot.

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City taxes, nothing. Anyone who buys anything in the area serviced by the MTA pays a 1/4 percent additional sales tax. Anyone who buys any taxable item in NYC, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Putnam, Dutchess, Rockland and Orange counties pays this tax. This means anyone, whether they live in New York State, New Jersey or Connecticut. Addtionally, people who don't live in these areas but who use the system pay a fare to ride the trains. People who come to New York use services of the city and state and do not pay income tax but yet are provided with the service. NYC Police or NYC FD don't inquire of a person where they live to see if they can provide service to them. I'm sure NY will try to pony up some money from NJ for the service in much the same manner that CT pays the MTA for operating and maintaining the Metro-North lines in that state.

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True, but its' also New York City Transit Authority (or M.T.A. New York City Transit Authority) and we've had the S89 (S89) for a couple of years now (though the S89 does make only one New Jersey stop).

 

That's the problem...what's the point of extending the (7) to New Jersey if it makes one stop? Unless they decide to add more than one stop then they're gonna have to construct the stations in a way that prevents New Jersey residents from using OUR subway line with their own free will, such as using the subway within New Jersey instead of taking it into the city. If the line is built with multiple stations then build them with side platforms so the outbound (New Jersey-bound) platforms will only allow exits and not entrances, and the inbound (Manhattan-bound) ones will only allow entrances and not exits (only emergency exits). That's the only way I can see this working.

 

In addition, this is exactly the same reason why I don't think PATH should even allow pickups in Manhattan heading towards 33rd Street because that's competing with the MTA...their fare is lower than ours so people would use it to their advantage, costing the MTA money.

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OMG this is super asinine, the city should have just chipped in for the ARC tunnel, it was only killed because of funds, but no, now the city wants to pay for a 7 train extention to NJ.

 

Just to be clear I actually love this extention idea but I can't wrap my head around the stupidity as to why this is being proposed, the murder of the ARC tunnel. Should've just got together from the get go (or at least when the ARC tunnel was on it's death bed).

 

The ARC tunnel would've been better than a (7) extention, could've thrown a subway line in that tunnel as well.

 

Maybe it's just me, am I understanding this correctly?

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City taxes, nothing. Anyone who buys anything in the area serviced by the MTA pays a 1/4 percent additional sales tax. Anyone who buys any taxable item in NYC, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Putnam, Dutchess, Rockland and Orange counties pays this tax. This means anyone, whether they live in New York State, New Jersey or Connecticut. Addtionally, people who don't live in these areas but who use the system pay a fare to ride the trains. People who come to New York use services of the city and state and do not pay income tax but yet are provided with the service. NYC Police or NYC FD don't inquire of a person where they live to see if they can provide service to them. I'm sure NY will try to pony up some money from NJ for the service in much the same manner that CT pays the MTA for operating and maintaining the Metro-North lines in that state.

 

Glad to see that at least one person realizes that it's NOT the NYCTA anymore, but the NYCT division of the (MTA). I don't think the City of New York itself has much clout with the agency's full agenda as it's state controlled. Quite frankly I'd guess that the PANY&NJ has at least as much clout as the city does, if not more. As you pointed out there are quite a few people paying the MTA tax who don't use the system at all. That's why I look at the proposal as a bi-state issue rather than a NYC specific issue. If you voted this past election cycle, on either side of the Hudson, let's see what your representatives think about this proposal before we speculate. As for Chairman Walder's thoughts on the issue, well I think 2 Governors and 4 Senators opinions outweigh his opinion any day of the week. Just my opinion though.

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