The New Fulton Transit Center Is Scheduled To Open In 2014; Will Feature Spiral Stairs

[Ceya]

Mkay. You pay for it.

 

It's not fair for the MTA to spend billions to help a very very very small minority of people.

 

 

Federal law mandates it.

 

Its not fair for MTA to waste money either.

 

S/F,

CEYA!

[West End]

Mkay. You pay for it.

 

It's not fair for the MTA to spend billions to help a very very very small minority of people.

 

Are people today still hating on the physically challenged? What decade are we in, the 1950's? Leave it to a majority to oppress a minority. To think, I could've experienced the "joys" of drinking out of a separate water fountain.

[Urbanfortitude]

Mkay. You pay for it.

 

It's not fair for the MTA to spend billions to help a very very very small minority of people.

 

All it takes is the right kind of accident, and guess what!? you're in the Wheelchair Club.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not every station can be made accessible, and it's not like there being forced to take the subway. There are other options and they should be used before forcing millions of dollars in renovations.

 

The MTA has cut back on Access-A-Ride dramatically, some of it rightfully due to those who abused the system, but they have also cut back on bus service, which means that for some the only choice left is the subway and if that isn't accessible, that means these people are stranded.

 

You talk about these people as if they're not supposed to live. I mean just because they're in wheelchairs or are disabled doesn't mean their lives aren't valuable. They have jobs, families and responsiblities just like we do and they need to get around too. The only difference is that they have disabilites that impede them from doing certain things.

 

If you were in their situation you'd see things very differently.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Are people today still hating on the physically challenged? What decade are we in, the 1950's? Leave it to a majority to oppress a minority. To think, I could've experienced the "joys" of drinking out of a separate water fountain.

 

There are plenty of disabled people here in NYC. We just tend to overlook them, but they're here and they should have access to the transportation system as well because some of them like many other New Yorkers don't have cars or family members that can transport them around.

[INDman]

Wait until it be you, you would not want to say that.

 

S/F,

CEYA!

 

The MTA has cut back on Access-A-Ride dramatically, some of it rightfully due to those who abused the system, but they have also cut back on bus service, which means that for some the only choice left is the subway and if that isn't accessible, that means these people are stranded.

 

You talk about these people as if they're not supposed to live. I mean just because they're in wheelchairs or are disabled doesn't mean their lives aren't valuable. They have jobs, families and responsiblities just like we do and they need to get around too. The only difference is that they have disabilites that impede them from doing certain things.

 

If you were in their situation you'd see things very differently.

 

Ok, now I'll ask this again since no one had given me an answer. What about about the stations in the system that CAN NOT be made wheel chair accessible, and what about will happen when there is an emergency and they can't get out because the elevators don't work?

 

Where did I every say they shouldn't live or say anything like that or devalue their lives? If you can't find where I said that, it's because I didn't. Stop making up bullshit.

[Mark 1]

The disabled certainly has a right to ride the subway system and have accessibility however, retrofitting stations for ADA access is incredibly expensive and this is a fact.

 

Getting back on topic, the Fulton St hub is now a money pit and the completion date just keeps on getting pushed back. Yes, the complex was a maze and people who transfer to/from the 2 or 3 to/from the A or C should never use Fulton St. Minimizing the use of the A/C platform to get to the other lines though is a huge plus in my opinion.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ok, now I'll ask this again since no one had given me an answer. What about about the stations in the system that CAN NOT be made wheel chair accessible, and what about will happen when there is an emergency and they can't get out because the elevators don't work?

 

Where did I every say they shouldn't live or say anything like that or devalue their lives? If you can't find where I said that, it's because I didn't. Stop making up bullshit.

 

You stated "I have never been in support of re building stations to make them accessible... I don't like the idea of rebuilding a station so wheelchair bound customers can ride the train." If that's not devaluing their lives then what is?

 

You also argued that disabled people should use "Access-a-Ride, buses and cabs". What you fail to realize or don't care to realize is that

 

#1. The MTA cut back drastically on Access-a-Ride, so many disabled people aren't eligible for it.

 

#2. The MTA also cut back or eliminated several bus lines.

 

#3. Not all disabled people can afford to take cabs, which means that their only option may be the subway and if they can't access it then they're stranded because for many of them, options #1 and 2 no longer exist.

 

So yeah, you sound as if you're saying that it's a waste of money to make stations accessible for wheelchair people as if they're getting "special treatment" or something, I mean they're disabled man. The least that can be done is to make getting around for them as easy as possible. Geez.

 

Now to try to answer your other question... I would imagine if the MTA provided some options for these people that they would be less likely to press the subway issue, but then again they only have access to less than 1/4 of the stations and that's assuming that the elevator isn't broken.

[Joel Up Front]

No, he isn't. He's simply stating that they can't make everything accessible... we can't do much for the people that live near a station that can't be made so/lost bus lines/can't afford to ride the bus or paratransit. Sad, I know, but we can only hope that something will happen for them.

 

Spiral stairs? How will that fix anything?

[Ceya]

If man designed or build it, it can change.

 

S/F,

CEYA!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If man designed or build it, it can change.

 

S/F,

CEYA!

 

They just may not have the money to pay for it, but that's another issue.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No, he isn't. He's simply stating that they can't make everything accessible... we can't do much for the people that live near a station that can't be made so/lost bus lines/can't afford to ride the bus or paratransit. Sad, I know, but we can only hope that something will happen for them.

 

Spiral stairs? How will that fix anything?

 

Don't worry, you don't have to pity them. The law is on their side and that's what matters. I just hope none of you guys that are so adamantly against making subway stations accessible have friends or family that are disabled or you never become disabled because the MTA may just think that you being able to get around is just too expensive also.

[MikeGerald]

A) It is true that several parts of the New York City subway system is over 100 years old, and in some cases retro-fitting the stations for wheelchair access can be difficult.

 

In some subway stations it may mean that there are only certain sections of platforms that can be reached (middle platform - Atlantic Avenue for #4 or #5 trains, etc) Or that the complete freedom of movement for a wheelchair user is not exactly the same as a walking person - (passing between uptown and downtown at Bowling Green #4 and #5). Or from the street it may mean two elevator shafts to the elevated platforms.

 

It is not impossible for the entire subway station to be retro-fitted, just not easy. It is however federal law, especially if one wants to use federal money (you use our money - you follow our rules, etc), and getting funded is necessary for any improvements or expansions.

 

B) At the same time, some subway stations may require only a relative small amount of money to make them wheelchair accessible.

 

The subway system was originally designed for two-legged able-body folk to get around - since that was the mass of folk needing to get around. Today the design priorities have been expanded. Many of the improvements that were supposed to be made to help the handicapped also help regular able-bodied folk (curb-cuts, elevators, ramps, etc).

 

C) The "disabled" does not only mean those in a wheelchair. Many "disable" folk work, pay taxes, feed their families, and so on. It is difficult to argue that those who pay taxes should not in some way benefit from those taxes, just the same as everyone else does - and that includes public transit.

 

D) The Fulton Street transit complex was built the way it is - because the system system was the combination of line from different competing transit companies. It was not made in the beginning to work together!

 

E) The funding and the idea for the "Fulton Transit Center" was essentially to use money in lower Manhattan due to the incident at the WTC, the same money could not be used elsewhere. If WTC-9/11 had not happened - does anyone really believe the MTA would have proposed such an extensive rebuilding operation at the Broadway-Nassau-Fulton Street stations?

 

F) The big issue with the Fulton Street Transit Center is that one can not rebuild a station and its tracks while at the same time the huge masses of people have to use those same stations and tracks daily. It is impossible to just shut the whole thing done - close it - rebuild it - open it, and then use it. Major access to various parts of the city would be affected greatly.

 

Just a few thoughts.

Mike

[Y2Julio]

Actually that would waste more money, if they bought from home depot. Its cheaper to buy direct from wholesale and bulk also.

 

And I might add that this is an article about Plaza Construction receiving this contract, not about Fulton St Transit Center.

 

Haha no, It's cheaper to buy retail when it comes to prices city agencies pay for supplies.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A) It is true that several parts of the New York City subway system is over 100 years old, and in some cases retro-fitting the stations for wheelchair access can be difficult.

 

In some subway stations it may mean that there are only certain sections of platforms that can be reached (middle platform - Atlantic Avenue for #4 or #5 trains, etc) Or that the complete freedom of movement for a wheelchair user is not exactly the same as a walking person - (passing between uptown and downtown at Bowling Green #4 and #5). Or from the street it may mean two elevator shafts to the elevated platforms.

 

It is not impossible for the entire subway station to be retro-fitted, just not easy. It is however federal law, especially if one wants to use federal money (you use our money - you follow our rules, etc), and getting funded is necessary for any improvements or expansions.

 

B) At the same time, some subway stations may require only a relative small amount of money to make them wheelchair accessible.

 

The subway system was originally designed for two-legged able-body folk to get around - since that was the mass of folk needing to get around. Today the design priorities have been expanded. Many of the improvements that were supposed to be made to help the handicapped also help regular able-bodied folk (curb-cuts, elevators, ramps, etc).

 

C) The "disabled" does not only mean those in a wheelchair. Many "disable" folk work, pay taxes, feed their families, and so on. It is difficult to argue that those who pay taxes should not in some way benefit from those taxes, just the same as everyone else does - and that includes public transit.

 

D) The Fulton Street transit complex was built the way it is - because the system system was the combination of line from different competing transit companies. It was not made in the beginning to work together!

 

E) The funding and the idea for the "Fulton Transit Center" was essentially to use money in lower Manhattan due to the incident at the WTC, the same money could not be used elsewhere. If WTC-9/11 had not happened - does anyone really believe the MTA would have proposed such an extensive rebuilding operation at the Broadway-Nassau-Fulton Street stations?

 

F) The big issue with the Fulton Street Transit Center is that one can not rebuild a station and its tracks while at the same time the huge masses of people have to use those same stations and tracks daily. It is impossible to just shut the whole thing done - close it - rebuild it - open it, and then use it. Major access to various parts of the city would be affected greatly.

 

Just a few thoughts.

Mike

 

And I'm also glad that you pointed out that not all disabled people are wheelchairs and more importantly that they also pay taxes like we do and should have certain expectations.

[INDman]

C) The "disabled" does not only mean those in a wheelchair. Many "disable" folk work, pay taxes, feed their families, and so on. It is difficult to argue that those who pay taxes should not in some way benefit from those taxes, just the same as everyone else does - and that includes public transit.

 

 

Yes, not all disabled people are in wheel chairs but most of the improvements to the system are for those in wheel chairs. While yes they do have every right to use the system, it does not mean that they should.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes, not all disabled people are in wheel chairs but most of the improvements to the system are for those in wheel chairs. While yes they do have every right to use the system, it does not mean that they should.

 

I really don't like what you're insinuating...

[Joel Up Front]

He's not insinuating anything.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He's not insinuating anything.

 

Like I said, I don't like what he's insinuating. The system is for everyone to use and making comments like "disabled people shouldn't use the subway" echoes certain comments made to other groups not too long ago which were ostricized and forced to sit on the back of the bus. :tdown:

 

I hope you don't think it's cool because it isn't.

[Tokkemon]

What? You just turned this into a racial issue? Are you joking?

[asidrane]

Like I said, I don't like what he's insinuating. The system is for everyone to use and making comments like "disabled people shouldn't use the subway" echoes certain comments made to other groups not too long ago which were ostricized and forced to sit on the back of the bus. :tdown:

 

I hope you don't think it's cool because it isn't.

 

You are taking a great leap from what has been said to how you are interpreting it. Since people with physical disabilities are at greater risk in the subway (evacuating in the tunnel during an emergency, navigating gaps, etc...), trying to prompt them to use the subway might not be the best option. In no way is that like segregation that existed in the mid 20th century.

[INDman]

I really don't like what you're insinuating...

 

Like I said, I don't like what he's insinuating. The system is for everyone to use and making comments like "disabled people shouldn't use the subway" echoes certain comments made to other groups not too long ago which were ostricized and forced to sit on the back of the bus. :tdown:

 

I hope you don't think it's cool because it isn't.

 

Are you really equating what I am saying to racism? If you are, you are out of your mind. Let me explain this for the last time since you really have a hard time understanding what I am saying and you adding your own interpretation to what I am saying that, again has NO hidden meaning or message. Disabled people, specifically those in wheel chairs or those who have other difficulties moving around are free to use the subway, but they and those who are advocates for them must keep in mind that, not all station are accessible and some of them will never be (look at the local stations being rebuilt on the Brighton line) accessible because of the way they are built. Also, in the event of an emergency it will take longer for them to be evacuated from a train or even a station. If they do choose to ride the subway, they may still not get to there destination because elevators and handicapped accessible gates maybe out of service. I hope this is clear for you, if not then you need some help.

[INDman]

You are taking a great leap from what has been said to how you are interpreting it. Since people with physical disabilities are at greater risk in the subway (evacuating in the tunnel during an emergency, navigating gaps, etc...), trying to prompt them to use the subway might not be the best option. In no way is that like segregation that existed in the mid 20th century.

 

Holy crap, someone get what I'm talking about.

[MikeGerald]

It seems that there is an objection to the wheelchair-bound and or the disabled using subway transit, because in the case of an emergency it "might" be difficult to rescue such people. Unstated but it is implied that the rescue of such disabled persons could or would endanger those who should be rescued.

 

It is a kind of thinking that goes into the idea that there are a limited amount of seats in a life-raft, and that there has to be decisions about the persons that gets to go into the life-raft. (Such thinking often neglects to figure out just who it was that placed a limitation on the amount of life-rafts, but that is another debate.)

 

This is similar to the thinking of those persons enrolled in the National Socialist Party of Germany, and sometimes other countries. Beyond the racial aspects of such party-line thinking, was a very important debate about social utility. The idea is the society has a limited amount of resources, and thus should not expend resources upon those who would demand a great deal more resources than others - those kinds of persons should be eliminated. It is often said that persons who have been extended such social kindness would be "better off" being in a limited position in society. Another extension of the social utility thinking has been movements toward the reduction in the birth of persons with disabilities, even if such disabilities might be or might not be amenable to treatment. Rather than thinking that all human life is important, some would say that "certain people" are frankly less important. That is they (the disabled, handicapped, etc) simply not exist (or be seen, etc.) because their life is simply not that important.

 

This kind of social utility thinking has been behind efforts at euthanasia, treatment of the mentally-ill, mentally and physical handicapped, and others. It is not purely racist in thinking, but similar of a different kind, in that it is prejudicial. Those with any kind of dis-ability is prejudged without reference to further information about the individual status of each person, or much information about the various groups involved. It is a lumping of persons into one class, labeling them, and then sanctions are applied based upon the label.

 

While there is a positive spin on the "rugged individual" - there are times when one must realize that no matter how much of an "individual" that we may think we are - we are still part of a social group - a society.

 

Who among us would really leave a handicapped person in a burning building to die, knowing that with just a little effort that we could save their lives?

 

Mike

[INDman]

So now I'm a Nazi or something? Your reading too much into something that's no there.