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SIR North Shore

Savino calls for subway, rail links for Staten Island with floating $3B

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With the technology available today, surely we can build an under-harbor tunnel connecting SI and Manhattan directly. Its only a matter of how badly anyone wants it.

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The distance of 6 miles between Staten Island, and Manhattan would most likely hamper the idea to construct a tunnel between them for the subway, and the costs would most likely be massive. I don't see it happening.

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A five mile long tunnel underwater is possible, as there are tunnels in the world that are even longer than that. The main issue is the depth of the New York Bay, as I heard there is a huge trench in one bay as well.

 

If a subway line were to be extended into Staten Island from Manhattan the line would have to descend from a good distance before the seawall. South Ferry is extremely close to the seawall, and too close to the ground, and is therefore not possible. If the new station were constructed in a way that would have included provisions for an extension it would have been built that way in the first place.

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High speed ferries would most certainly be faster and much more direct, but a subway is best as a sort of feeder line to the outer boroughs. You can't make the (W) express however, because it would jam all the subway lines, and it would stop the idea of extending the (W) to Queens, because it would be too long.

 

Here is the old subway connection plan to Staten Island using the IND Second System.

1939_IND_Second_System.jpg

 

Here is the West Shore Light Rail plan. It's an extension of the Hudson Bergen Light Rail. Notice the reactivated North Shore Rail.

staten-island1.jpg

 

Here is my Staten Island Light Rail Plan. The plan features faster ferries, and extra light rail lines, and it also features the SIR North Shore Branch's extension to Newark Airport. The map has changed a bit in my ideas, but not much. The only changes are that the SI Mall's Orange Line will run down Richmond Avenue instead, and would run to the Eltingville Station on the SIR, and the West Shore Light Rail would run to Richmond Valley instead. The Orange Line light rail utilizes the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and would run parallel to the SIE taking road lanes, but for a good use, and would run to Bay Ridge 95th Street on the (R).

5467268196_ce69834618_b.jpg

 

Thanks, dude! :) I love it! But why would the (W) go to Queens anyway? The point, as I have said multiple times, is getting Staten Islanders to Manhattan. If they need Queens, they can transfer to the (N) or (R). Plus, how would it jam the express tracks? Didn't there use to be two expresses on Broadway? And if it has something to do with the tracks in Brooklyn, I said it would be local there. You're correct that ferries would be faster, but I disagree with "more direct". If by direct you mean directly to the shore of Manhattan, then yes. But to go any more inland would require a subway transfer.

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It's over an hour to get to manhattan from the ferry, too. I would make the (W) express if I could, but I don't want to rework existing stations. I could make it express in Manhattan though...

 

This is a good point...the main thing is figuring out a fast way to Manhattan. :cool:

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Good point.

 

...About what? Did you know you could quote the person you are responding to by pressing the "quote" button, to give added understanding about what you mean. ;) You can also edit your posts to add something you forgot to add in the original post.

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The (N) & (Q) are running express on Broadway. The (R) & (W) has to run local. Also the (N) & (W) had to run together on the Astoria Line. The Astoria Line sees a lot of use, and needs two services to handle the crowds. So extending the (W) to Staten Island would kill the idea of running the (W) on the Astoria Line.

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The (N) & (Q) are running express on Broadway. The (R) & (W) has to run local. Also the (N) & (W) had to run together on the Astoria Line. The Astoria Line sees a lot of use, and needs two services to handle the crowds. So extending the (W) to Staten Island would kill the idea of running the (W) on the Astoria Line.

 

I believe that the (N) is now the Broadway local, so the (W) could be express. Plus, the (C) used to run in four boroughs, and the (F) would still have more stops than my proposed (W), if the (W) were to run on Astoria.

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There is a reason why the (N) needs to run express again if the (W) ever comes back, and that reason is the (N), and the (7) combined links all the Chinatowns together. They raised hell back in June of last year about what happened. Also residents on the Sea Beach Line would most certainly complain if the (N) was local. Sorry, but the (W) in your idea can only run from Tottenville to 57th Street all local. If people need express service they can always transfer at 59th Street to the (N), and to the (D) at 36th Street. Also in your idea the (N) would be the sole line serving Astoria, but I think that's fine if you can increase the amount of trains running on the Astoria Line.

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There is a reason why the (N) needs to run express again if the (W) ever comes back, and that reason is the (N), and the (7) combined links all the Chinatowns together. They raised hell back in June of last year about what happened. Also residents on the Sea Beach Line would most certainly complain if the (N) was local. Sorry, but the (W) in your idea can only run from Tottenville to 57th Street all local. If people need express service they can always transfer at 59th Street to the (N), and to the (D) at 36th Street. Also in your idea the (N) would be the sole line serving Astoria, but I think that's fine if you can increase the amount of trains running on the Astoria Line.

 

Then make the (Q) a local along with the (R), and make the (N) and (W) express. I do not have a problem with sending the (W) to Astoria, provided that it is express in Manhattan.

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It doesn't need to be express in Manhattan. The total number of stations of the new (W) would be 48 stations which is the same length as the (R). Plus the (Q) can't be the Broadway Local either, because it has to serve Second Avenue as part of Phase 1, and the Brighton Line.

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Here is what your idea would look like SI Subway. The (W) would run from 57th Street, Manhattan to the SIR in a tunnel between 59th Street and St. George as a Broadway Local. It would terminate at Tottenville, and the original SIR would be turned into a (S), and would run from Newark Airport to Tottenville.

5819898232_e3f9f876e0_b.jpg

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Here is what your idea would look like SI Subway. The (W) would run from 57th Street, Manhattan to the SIR in a tunnel between 59th Street and St. George as a Broadway Local. It would terminate at Tottenville, and the original SIR would be turned into a (S), and would run from Newark Airport to Tottenville.

5819898232_e3f9f876e0_b.jpg

 

You are aware that the SIR is only two single tracks, correct?

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It doesn't need to be express in Manhattan. The total number of stations of the new (W) would be 48 stations which is the same length as the (R). Plus the (Q) can't be the Broadway Local either, because it has to serve Second Avenue as part of Phase 1, and the Brighton Line.

 

Oh, ok. I hadn't even realized that it was that length...:)

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Here is what your idea would look like SI Subway. The (W) would run from 57th Street, Manhattan to the SIR in a tunnel between 59th Street and St. George as a Broadway Local. It would terminate at Tottenville, and the original SIR would be turned into a (S), and would run from Newark Airport to Tottenville.

5819898232_e3f9f876e0_b.jpg

 

Actually, no, that was not my idea. My idea was to have the (W) go along the North Shore Branch; the SIR would be left unchanged. You got everything else right...

 

Also, didn't you say a page ago that the (MTA) can't build in NJ?

 

Anyway, your map-making skills are incredible! :)

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You can have a maximum of 2 subway services using 2 tracks. The (D), and the (Mx) did the same thing on the West End Line. Also SI Subway the Newark Airport section is operated by the Port Authority, but there isn't a problem with that, because it's only two stations.

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Also SI Subway the Newark Airport section is operated by the Port Authority, but there isn't a problem with that, because it's only two stations.

 

Just a quick (Q)uestion, would those two stops be owned by the PA, like you said the (7) in NJ would, or would it just be operated by the PA?

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Any (7) extension or subway extension to NJ would be operated and owned by the PA, but if it is only 1 or 2 subway stations into NJ the PA would own the stations, but the (MTA) would still be operating the trains.

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That is true. That's why I think Staten Island would be better off being connected with high speed ferries, along with light rail, and the SIR would be extended along the North Shore Branch from Newark Airport to Tottenville. The Airport idea isn't a bad one, because NJT trains stop down there, and people can go to other destinations at the airport.

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Plus, my idea never said anything about taking anything outside NYC. The (W) would go from St. George to Cranford in SI. If a service to Newark Airport is needed, extend the AirTrain to Cranford.

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Why the North Shore Branch when the Main Branch sees much more stations, and much more potential customers? The North Shore Branch is much smaller and would be better off having a (S) train to St. George if the subway ever goes to Staten Island.

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Why the North Shore Branch when the Main Branch sees much more stations, and much more potential customers? The North Shore Branch is much smaller and would be better off having a (S) train to St. George if the subway ever goes to Staten Island.

 

Because the Main Line is currently not suitable for the (W); the stations are only suitable for 4-car sets. The North Shore, of which many of the stations are in disrepair and could easily be expanded, is more compatible with the (W)

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The solution is among the most simple. Platform extensions. You can shut down nearby stations, and it would still be extremely useful.

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