R179 Discussion Thread

[Fan Railer]

I've confused the 5000's for a quiet R142 (or 143) often, but it kinda takes away the fun of the propulsion and acceleration...

 

...then again, I need to see a 5000 hit a straightaway and watch it go fast. The loop doesn't give you much to play with.

 

you can see them go fast in the second video. I ride the pink line out of the loop, and the train gets up to at least 45, maybe the max of 55 mph going towards ashland.

[Far Rock Depot]

i hope thats the final exterior design. but since its a concept, i doubt it. Ive seen the concepts for every fleet since the R110's and from past patterns, they wont look exactly like that.

[Fan Railer]

i hope thats the final exterior design. but since its a concept, i doubt it. Ive seen the concepts for every fleet since the R110's and from past patterns, they wont look exactly like that.

 

Well, as long as it is close, then it should be a refreshing update to the system. Last thing we need is more of the EXACT same cars with the EXACT same bulkhead design. It's good that they have the intention to streamline it a little bit.

[Far Rock Depot]

I would like a slight update too. But the cost of maintenance drops when the same parts can be used throughout the majority of the fleet.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

"What do New York City straphangers share in common with the folks in Plattsburgh, New York?

Both got some welcome news when the MTA and Bombardier Transportation inked the contract to manufacture 300 new R179 subways cars at Bombardier’s Plattsburgh facility. The order specifies10 prototypes for testing and approval, followed by 50 five-car sets and 10 four-car sets, with revenue service expected around late 2016.

For upstate residents, the $599 million deal will mean some 500 jobs and related revenue stimulus. For riders on NYC Transit’s lettered B Division lines, it will mean a fleet of state-of-the-art subway cars to retire the aging R32s and R42s, some of which are approaching 50 years old, well past the expected service life of a subway car. The R179s are also slated for use on the Second Avenue Subway.

What will the new cars look like?

“The 60-foot shell won’t look too different from the R160s you see on the lettered lines today,” says Michael Wetherell, vice president and chief mechanical officer, Division of Car Equipment, Subways. “Those design specifications have proven very successful. But as we work on this new order, we look forward to introducing a number of improvements.”

Lighting, climate controls, and digital voice announcements will all be upgraded. For riders, the most visible change will be in communications, including the strip map displays.

As Wetherell explains, “Instead of a display map that counts down the stops, the new cars will have a route indicator with more flexible messaging capacity. The new cars’ audio and text message displays will also have greater flexibility, allowing NYC Transit to quickly update service modifications and scheduling information.

Other improvements will be less visible. While the cars are not being purchased with closed-circuit television fully loaded, they will include the necessary wiring and conduits for future security camera installations. The new cars will also be lighter. By removing propulsion motors, lightening the floors, and making other materials changes, the trimmer R179s will improve overall energy efficiency.

“We are constantly looking for ways to reduce unnecessary weight,” Wetherell says. “It makes a real difference. Every pound of weight you can cut adds up to a significant energy saving over the life of a subway fleet.”

Though work in Plattsburgh has begun, much remains to be done before straphangers can actually enjoy their new ride.

 

I do have to admit, the front looks nicer than the present (and incompatible) R143s and 160s. Bu then again, it is a an artist's rendering. Won't know for sure if it will still look that way when Bombardier gets set to build the prototype cars.

[Brighton Express]

Looks great. I wish they were planned to go to the too. Oh well.

[BSmith]

Has the MTA said what lines the trains will go on? Yes the 2nd Av. subway makes sense but I think they are going on the A line. Some may make it to the C line but I don't see the C being R179s while the A is R46s. I think the A will get the R179s, the R46s will go to the C as the R46s are not being replaced by the R179s, the R32s and R40s are. As long as I can remember the C/CC has never had new equipment and always has run the oldest equipment, or next to it, in the system. The A though has had new equipment, like the R44 back in the 70s. As far as the rendering goes, I think most passengers would think it looks enough like an R160 that it is some version of it, maybe inside the floors will be lighter, but it looks R143/R160-like.

[Art Vandelay]

The C is getting R179s. There is really nowhere else for most of them to go outside of the Eastern Division (which will of course get some too)

[BSmith]

I know that the C runs R32s and they are being replaced but I still see most of the R179s going more to the A than C. I see a few on the C at times, but most of them on the A and not the C line. The R46s will still be in service and be replaced by the R211s, right? I don't see the C running R179s while the A runs R46s.

 

The C is getting R179s. There is really nowhere else for most of them to go outside of the Eastern Division (which will of course get some too)

 

[BSmith]

Yes, the A runs 38 trains max AM rush and the R179 order is 300 trains. So, if most run on the A line, that's not even enough to cover the full 38, just 30 trains. And then some are 4 car sets for the Eastern Division, so it won't even be 30 trains. And some are slated for the 2nd avenue subway. The R46s still making up a good amount of the CPW trains and I can't see the C getting the priority of them over the A. Am I missing something?

[Art Vandelay]

The A will not run 8 car trains of 60 foot cars. Therefore, they will not be on the A in any large quantity.

[BSmith]

Art, why can't the A use 10 car 60 foot trains like other major lines like the F that went from 8 car R46s to primarily 10 car R160s? When has the C ever got new equipment and why would the MTA prioritize the C over the A? The A isn't wedded to 75 footers.

 

 

The A will not run 8 car trains of 60 foot cars. Therefore, they will not be on the A in any large quantity.

 

Edited August 6, 2012 by BSmith

[DJ MC]

Art, why can't the A use 10 car 60 foot trains like other major lines like the F that went from 8 car R46s to primarily 10 car R160s? When has the C ever got new equipment and why would the MTA prioritize the C over the A? The A isn't wedded to 75 footers.

 

 

They are using 10 car 60 footers. R32s and R42s along with R46s in the mix.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

But they will not be able to use four-car R179 sets on the . That's what we get for the MTA insisting on ordering permanently linked four- and five-sets of trains (and linking the R62s and R68s into permanent four- and five-car sets) and for not buying new cars that can operate in the same train with the older ones.

[Brighton Express]

We are already talking about R211s? Is that even gonna be the name for them?

[Art Vandelay]

There is no reason the A could not use 10 car trains of R179s. I actually rather expect the A to use all such trains. But that is just 40 of the 300 cars. The other 260 cars will not be on the A as the A will not use 8 car trains of R179s outside of a major equipment catastrophe. I don't see anywhere else for those 260 cars to operate outside of the C and the Eastern division. (The only other POSSIBLE but highly unlikely place I could see them ending up is the W if ridership levels show that the C needs 10 cars more than the W does once SAS opens, but the W requires fewer trains than the C, so I think you'd still be stuck with some 8 car C trains anyway. )

Edited August 7, 2012 by Art Vandelay

[m7zanr160s]

Why do people keep thinking that most of this order is going to be 4-car sets? That makes no sense at all. The ()' /> would essentially be ordering new cars for one line.

Edited August 7, 2012 by m7zanr160s

[BSmith]

50 5 set cars is 250 cars which is 25 trains. 25 trains that would presumably go on the A, C (as 10 cars) or 2nd Av. line. I think most if not all of these will go on the A line. 10 4 car sets is 40 which sound like they'll go to replace the R42, there's about 40 of those in service and those may go to the Eastern division. That makes 290 cars, 25 5 car train sets for 10 car trains and 5 4 car train sets for 8 car train sets that run on lines like the L and Z. This still has the order coming out mostly for the A line as I see it, the A is a 10 car 60 foot line. The remaining 10 were test cars that will go on a line like the A or 2nd Av I guess.

 

"Both got some welcome news when the MTA and Bombardier Transportation inked the contract to manufacture 300 new R179 subways cars at Bombardier’s Plattsburgh facility. The order specifies10 prototypes for testing and approval, followed by 50 five-car sets and 10 four-car sets, with revenue service expected around late 2016. "

[Fan Railer]

50 5 set cars is 250 cars which is 25 trains. 25 trains that would presumably go on the A, C (as 10 cars) or 2nd Av. line. I think most if not all of these will go on the A line. 10 4 car sets is 40 which sound like they'll go to replace the R42, there's about 40 of those in service and those may go to the Eastern division. That makes 290 cars, 25 5 car train sets for 10 car trains and 5 4 car train sets for 8 car train sets that run on lines like the L and Z. This still has the order coming out mostly for the A line as I see it, the A is a 10 car 60 foot line. The remaining 10 were test cars that will go on a line like the A or 2nd Av I guess.

 

"Both got some welcome news when the MTA and Bombardier Transportation inked the contract to manufacture 300 new R179 subways cars at Bombardier’s Plattsburgh facility. The order specifies10 prototypes for testing and approval, followed by 50 five-car sets and 10 four-car sets, with revenue service expected around late 2016. "

 

No where in that link does anything say that there will be 50 five car sets and 10 four car sets. I'm banking more on the people with ACTUAL inside information. So unless someone can produce recent textual evidence that the order is indeed for 50 five car sets and 10 4 car sets, then we're still scheduled for 260 cars in 4 car sets and the remaining 40 cars in 5 car sets.

[m7zanr160s]

50 5 set cars is 250 cars which is 25 trains. 25 trains that would presumably go on the A, C (as 10 cars) or 2nd Av. line. I think most if not all of these will go on the A line. 10 4 car sets is 40 which sound like they'll go to replace the R42, there's about 40 of those in service and those may go to the Eastern division. That makes 290 cars, 25 5 car train sets for 10 car trains and 5 4 car train sets for 8 car train sets that run on lines like the L and Z. This still has the order coming out mostly for the A line as I see it, the A is a 10 car 60 foot line. The remaining 10 were test cars that will go on a line like the A or 2nd Av I guess.

 

"Both got some welcome news when the MTA and Bombardier Transportation inked the contract to manufacture 300 new R179 subways cars at Bombardier’s Plattsburgh facility. The order specifies10 prototypes for testing and approval, followed by 50 five-car sets and 10 four-car sets, with revenue service expected around late 2016. "

 

 

Thank you, sir.

[BSmith]

Y2Julio's post, 696 on this thread, page 35. I copied/pasted directly from that.

 

No where in that link does anything say that there will be 50 five car sets and 10 four car sets. I'm banking more on the people with ACTUAL inside information. So unless someone can produce recent textual evidence that the order is indeed for 50 five car sets and 10 4 car sets, then we're still scheduled for 260 cars in 4 car sets and the remaining 40 cars in 5 car sets.

 

[kentsfield]

The original plan from 2010 stipulated 50 5 car sets and 10 4 car sets. It doesnt seem likely they would flip the script.

http://www.mta.info/.../R-34179sol.pdf

Edited August 7, 2012 by kentsfield

[Art Vandelay]

The Bombardier press release linked as the source for that post has no such statement.

 

Things have changed a great deal since 2010.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Art Vandelay

[CDTA]

I can still see them going to the . After all, why give the a mixed fleet, when you give a yard a non-mixed? And seeing how for the most part, the 179's in the eastern division will only run during / rush, why not run them on a part time line aswell over here? And because this order also pushes the R44's out of SI, a few cars will IMO most likely go to Jamaica, seeing how they are approved for the NTT's, while Pitkin isn't. And why would you overhaul Pitkin, just for a few cars?

[Art Vandelay]

The R179 order is not large enough to allow for transfer of R46s to SIRT.

 

Also, I would not assume that the R179s on the J/Z will be anything close to rush hour only cars.