R179 Discussion Thread

[Jdog14]

They did but that was the rejected set. I don't know why they just went with the R160 design but hey who knows, the future 8 car sets might receive them.

 

The real thing doesn't look close to what the concept looks like. 

[Lance]

On the subject of suspended service and rerouted trains, I think a few of you have this notion that trains disappear into the ether when it's announced service is suspended. Unless the train is at a terminal or other out of the way location, the train has to go somewhere, regardless of what the service alerts page states. Otherwise, the out of service trains will create a backlog down the line. Case and point, you'll see the occasional train pop up at Whitehall St during a service diversion, despite no information being put out by the MTA regarding such a service change.

 

Regarding the concept drawing vs the actual design/build, the 179s as ordered were always going to be 160 clones since their purpose is/was to finish the job of the 160 order and replace the aging 32s and 42s. While that plan has changed somewhat, it's still not the original proposal put forward where the 179s would replace the 44s and be the start of a massive order to replace all of the '70s cars.

[Fresh Pond]

I'm just curious as to how much do the dimentions need to be fixed? Like is it a few millimeters or a few inches?

With the 32s and 42s, they're 10' wide straight across. With the other cars, they're only 10' wide around the belly area, and up to a foot narrower (depending on the car) at the top.

[biGC323232]

With the 32s and 42s, they're 10' wide straight across. With the other cars, they're only 10' wide around the belly area, and up to a foot narrower (depending on the car) at the top.

im glad u cleared that up..cause i was always wondering how in the world r46 and r160's can run thru tunnel and not r32 r42

[Javier]

The rest of the prototypes 5 car set is delayed....again...They were originally suppose to arrive last week around Wednesday...

[Around the Horn]

The rest of the prototypes 5 car set is delayed....again...They were originally suppose to arrive last week around Wednesday...

 Are you sure? DJ Hammers said the other 5 aren't coming for another few weeks...

[Metro CSW]

Are you sure? DJ Hammers said the other 5 aren't coming for another few weeks...

That is still correct. Supposedly in October or November the latest.

 

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[Javier]

I'm repeating what's in front of me in the roster bro. I'll double check.

[Missabassie]

You guys gotta remember, Bombardier has more orders to fulfill, not just our own.

[ttcsubwayfan]

They're not doing much good on fulfilling those other orders either...

[Woodside7878]

They're not doing much good on fulfilling those other orders either...

Kawasaki is managing better on its orders then Bombardier. Since Bombardier is manufacturing at a fast pace that makes alot of mistakes is no wonder why delivery delays keep happening. Bombardier should follow Henry Ford's assembly line pattern like Boeing did when building the 787 dreamliner, that if they got the space and time to reorganize.

[RailRunRob]

Kawasaki is managing better on its orders then Bombardier. Since Bombardier is manufacturing at a fast pace that makes alot of mistakes is no wonder why delivery delays keep happening. Bombardier should follow Henry Ford's assembly line pattern like Boeing did when building the 787 dreamliner, that if they got the space and time to reorganize.

The Ford way of working is why Bombardier is probably in this predicament. Ford is speed over quality never stopping the line just doesn't work well especially when you have to fix all the mistakes at the end that you could have on the line to begin with. I'd go with the Toyota (Nummi) approach to thing's Remember this is what got GM back in the game in the 1970's /1980's. I've done work with Kawasaki 16-17 years back fresh out of school. I can definitely attest to them working in the NUMMI style and honestly more broadly it's the Japanese approach.You're seeing it the Quality of the Rolling stock I remember while at Kawasaki people speaking on how many time's the R142's 30 day had to be reset vs the 142a's there was pride in that. Read up on NUMMI/Toyota if you can well worth it. Info and style I used to this day even with managing my team.  

Edited September 20, 2016 by RailRunRob

[Around the Horn]

Ford is speed over quality never stopping the line just doesn't work well especially when you have to fix all the mistakes at the end that you could have on the line to begin with.

 

Ford Pinto anyone?

 

I'll take Kawasaki every time until an American company (Im aware that Bombardier is a French Canadian company)can show me that kind of dedication to craft (and sometimes over profit).

[RailRunRob]

Ford Pinto anyone?

 

I'll take Kawasaki every time until an American company (Im aware that Bombardier is a French Canadian company)can show me that kind of dedication to craft (and sometimes over profit).

Budd might be the last of the great American builders

 

 

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[R10 2952]

Ford Pinto anyone?

Pinto, Granada, Edsel, Taurus... there was more than one Ford dud, tbh.

 

I'll take Kawasaki every time until an American company (Im aware that Bombardier is a French Canadian company)can show me that kind of dedication to craft (and sometimes over profit).

To be fair, when did companies like ACF, Budd, and Pressed Steel ever not show a dedication to craft? (I conspicuously left St. Louis and Pullman out for a good reason).  Even the M3s, which were the next-to-last railcars built by Budd in the '80s, were fairly decent.  Modern-day American manufacturers are a different story, but it's not that they can't build a good product- they're just not being properly incentivized to do so. And free-trade, neoliberal BS that lets in foreign manufacturers like Kawasaki is exactly the reason why so many working people in this country are being harmed economically.  Better quality from American manufacturers can be achieved through the development of rigorous quality-control regulations.

Edited September 20, 2016 by R10 2952

[RailRunRob]

Pinto, Granada, Edsel, Taurus... there was more than one Ford dud, tbh.

 

To be fair, when did companies like ACF, Budd, and Pressed Steel ever not show a dedication to craft? (I conspicuously left St. Louis and Pullman out for a good reason).  Even the M3s, which were the next-to-last railcars built by Budd in the '80s, were fairly decent.  Modern-day American manufacturers are a different story, but it's not that they can't build a good product- they're just not being properly incentivized to do so. And free-trade, neoliberal BS that lets in foreign manufacturers like Kawasaki is exactly the reason why so many working people in this country are being harmed economically.  Better quality from American manufacturers can be achieved through the development of rigorous quality-control regulations.

 

Budd started what we know as high-speed rail here in the U.S let's give some credit where it's due Asia and Europe would not have there tech if companies like Budd didn't have that last bout with Air travel . I hear you there was also an angle of false safety and complacency that added to this decline as well in my opinion. GM for instance during the 70's and 80's the work ethic at some of these plants were deplorable drinking on the job stopping the line because your managers said something you didn't like. And with unions, you knew there was job safety and practically couldn't get fired. Now I understand as both being an employee and employer checks and balances are very necessary and accountability on both sides is key. How long before companies start looking elsewhere in markets where people can do the job without the headache especially when they have to be accountable to shareholders? For sure I'm with taking care of home first but there has to be some accountability when given the opportunity of employment.  It's not a right and in my personal experience from my view A good amount of workers hate or don't really care for what they do and for the most part, do least amount of work to get paid here in the US and it trickles down. I  hundred percent agree people should have the opportunity for employment and live a happy life. But there the world is getting smaller I feel like we have to start thinking more global. It's a lot to the problem but we have to take accountability as well. In order to make the change.     

Edited September 20, 2016 by RailRunRob

[Around the Horn]

I'm talking about now not then guys.

[RailRunRob]

I'm talking about now not then guys.

No question. Japanese build and Q/A is better today. Just giving my view on how it became this way.

The German's do make a heck of a car tho  .

Edited September 20, 2016 by RailRunRob

[bobtehpanda]

The inconvenient truth is that American rail manufacturers don't exist anymore because there is no American rail market to cater to. Passenger rail shriveled up and along with it came any sort of reasonable way for an American rail manufacturer to stay in the business. Even with the great metro-building projects of the '60s, that wasn't enough to replace the miles of railroads and streetcars that we lost. At this point making them at home is a recipe for disaster, because the market is just too thin.

[R10 2952]

That's an incredibly defeatist attitude; this country used to be one of ingenuity and that some of you are okay with foreign companies dominating our market is troubling.  I'm sure globalization sounds like a great thing to certain people, but the stronger the unrestrained free market grows, the greater the marginalization of ordinary citizens.

Edited September 20, 2016 by R10 2952

[RailRunRob]

The inconvenient truth is that American rail manufacturers don't exist anymore because there is no American rail market to cater to. Passenger rail shriveled up and along with it came any sort of reasonable way for an American rail manufacturer to stay in the business. Even with the great metro-building projects of the '60s, that wasn't enough to replace the miles of railroads and streetcars that we lost. At this point making them at home is a recipe for disaster, because the market is just too thin.

Very true. And even then it was a forced mandate by the government once rail mail was over forget about it. We had some innovations in rail along with the Brits why couldn't we start exporting for other markets? Why the Japanese and French?  two markets that pushed rail technology forward with TGV and Shinkansen platforms. Why couldn't a Pullman,Budd or ACF start exporting for Asia and Europe?

[TeeLow]

That's an incredibly defeatist attitude; this country used to be one of ingenuity and that some of you are okay with foreign companies dominating our market is troubling.  I'm sure globalization sounds like a great thing to certain people, but the stronger the unrestrained free market grows, the greater the marginalization of ordinary citizens.

Globalization is a fact of life in today's job market. When China (finally) opened their markets and their GDP shot up toward double digits, it wasn't necessarily that the quality of their products were better; their prices were cheaper because their manufacturing rate was higher because their work force grew tremendously. US investors sought out this market growth, pouring funds into China. Europe did as well. Cheap money flooded their markets. China devalued their currency in an attempt to slow a falling economy.

 

I'm no economist so I won't go into further detail (and some of my points above may be a tad inaccurate) but because of high US labor costs, companies outsourced to lower their bottom line, which in turn caused loss of jobs and a dead in the water economy. And now with India, Brazil (before their bottom dropped out) and other countries catching up, those once high paying US jobs began disappearing. Notice how low wage jobs are now seemingly the norm.

 

Globalization: neither all good nor all bad, just inevitable.

Budd started what we know as high-speed rail here in the U.S let's give some credit where it's due Asia and Europe would not have there tech if companies like Budd didn't have that last bout with Air travel . I hear you there was also an angle of false safety and complacency that added to this decline as well in my opinion. GM for instance during the 70's and 80's the work ethic at some of these plants were deplorable drinking on the job stopping the line because your managers said something you didn't like. And with unions, you knew there was job safety and practically couldn't get fired. Now I understand as both being an employee and employer checks and balances are very necessary and accountability on both sides is key. How long before companies start looking elsewhere in markets where people can do the job without the headache especially when they have to be accountable to shareholders? For sure I'm with taking care of home first but there has to be some accountability when given the opportunity of employment.  It's not a right and in my personal experience from my view A good amount of workers hate or don't really care for what they do and for the most part, do least amount of work to get paid here in the US and it trickles down. I  hundred percent agree people should have the opportunity for employment and live a happy life. But there the world is getting smaller I feel like we have to start thinking more global. It's a lot to the problem but we have to take accountability as well. In order to make the change.     

This.

[RailRunRob]

That's an incredibly defeatist attitude; this country used to be one of ingenuity and that some of you are okay with foreign companies dominating our market is troubling.  I'm sure globalization sounds like a great thing to certain people, but the stronger the unrestrained free market grows, the greater the marginalization of ordinary citizens.

This incredible ingenuity you speak remember came out of necessary most of the 20th centuries crowing achievements from Ailerons, Radar/Sonar,Jet ,Rockets GPS and both the Atomic and Internet ages all from war. Science and Engineering are the pillars of any society how can you expect ingenuity and progress when we're not making the proper invests in what counts? Globalization how can you stop it? What are gauging your views off of? The views and rules of the 19 and 20th centuries? We moved from months, weeks,days to now interconnectivity worldwide within hours? Trading and money is moving around the world at the speed of light.  What are your views of restraining the market?  What about the lack of a standard of education and healthcare?  Isn't that marginalizing citizens more? That's your ability to push ingenuity itself?

[RailRunRob]

Globalization is a fact of life in today's job market. When China (finally) opened their markets and their GDP shot up toward double digits, it wasn't necessarily that the quality of their products were better; their prices were cheaper because their manufacturing rate was higher because their work force grew tremendously. US investors sought out this market growth, pouring funds into China. Europe did as well. Cheap money flooded their markets. China devalued their currency in an attempt to slow a falling economy.

 

I'm no economist so I won't go into further detail (and some of my points above may be a tad inaccurate) but because of high US labor costs, companies outsourced to lower their bottom line, which in turn caused loss of jobs and a dead in the water economy. And now with India, Brazil (before their bottom dropped out) and other countries catching up, those once high paying US jobs began disappearing. Notice how low wage jobs are now seemingly the norm.

 

Globalization: neither all good nor all bad, just inevitable.

This.

Right, this process of integration has happened on every level and this argument as well. Unification of greater New York. Both Yonkers and Mount Vernon both voted against joining NYC. And Brooklyn barely made it took years for it happen in 1898 some of the same arguments, Identity, marginalization, opportunity. 30 years later Unification was what allowed for the great expansion of New York. There's power in numbers image if there were 7 boros. What about the US itself ? 13 colonies had to agree on nationalization. Globalization on a smaller scale that's works out well for the most part. They had the same concerns. The pie is getting larger more people opt into prosperity. It's not the strongest that survive is the most adaptive.

Edited September 20, 2016 by RailRunRob

[Around the Horn]

The idea that closing yourself off from the world is going to stop globalization is one of the most dangerous fallacies known to man.