R179 Discussion Thread

[Around the Horn]

21 minutes ago, FlushingExpress said:

 I rode on QBL recently and barely 10% of the project is done, so R46s to CI will never happen. It's also funny how Jamaica will be 100% R160s yet over the years, Jamaica has been persistently giving its R160s to Coney Island.

There are already R160s at Coney Island right now with CBTC installed for QBL. Your argument is invalid.

[subwaycommuter1983]

2 hours ago, Bosco said:

Keeping the R42s for a little longer is not a matter of pleasing foamers.  (If MTA decision makers listened to foamers, the R142As would never have left the , but I digress).  Even under current conditions, the spare factor for most lines is very low.  Why do you think that one R68 set runs on the  in the afternoon?  Because it’s not so people can get pictures.  Every extra set counts, and the MTA learned this after they scrapped many R32s that could’ve been put in the reserve fleet for situations like this.  Plus, with this newest issue with the R179—even if it is fake news—it’s still not likely all R179s will be in service a year from now.

I agree 100%. The MTA needs to wait until all r179's are in service before retiring the r42's. Better safe than sorry.

In the worst worst case scenario with the delivery of the r179's, the r42's may have to stay on the J/Z a little longer.

Edited March 28, 2018 by subwaycommuter1983

[subwaycommuter1983]

2 hours ago, Jemorie said:

The first half of the  fleet should be 100 R32s and 90 R179s in passenger service + 30 R32s and 30 R179s as spares. The rest of the  fleet can still be R46s and the  fully R46s like the  and  Rockaway Park Shuttle.

I hope this really happens.

It's a big possibility.

The tricky part is going to be the G. 

The most logical scenario would be 8 car r160's/r32's on the G. The r68's on the G can go the B, D, N or W.

[U-BahnNYC]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

If the 42's are so bad then why did the TA decide to use them on  shuttle which is isolated from the rest of the system?

That's precisely why. Because it's isolated from the system and has ridiculously low ridership.  Very smart move on their behalf.

 

[East New York]

If anyone wants a good laugh, go back to the very first page of this thread and start reading.  No one likes to listen to ENY. Lol. I knew this was gonna go down this way (but not this bad)  and i’ve Just sat back and sipped my tea like Kermit for the last 6 years. As someone who also follows the airline industry I knew they had too many irons in the fire at the time. I didn’t have anything against Bombardier back then, and they make good cars, but I knew a bit more than I mentioned...  mind you I knew absolutely nothing about trains at the time. Didnt know a 60 footer from a 75 footer or what the difference between IND and IRT were. Lol. I just knew I had info on my desk that made me think twice about Bombardier. 

I just never mentioned why I preferred Kawasaki get the order.  Again, I’m not going to say much, but this is gonna be very interesting moving forward in the future. Smh, and lol..... 

Edited March 28, 2018 by East New York

[VIP]

Everyone needs to calm tf down. We all don’t know “Official” assignments. However, let’s cut the bs; shall we? The R42’s are like the the R38’s in 2009... so either those cars stay and plague or they get replaced by R179’s! The R32’s are a larger fleet and have more parts to go around. Canarsie shut down apparently means and NECESSITATES NTT’s on the  and 60ft cars for the  while  being extended in length. So whether the R42’s get killed off or the  ‘s R160’s go to the ... shit will change SOON after the  resumes normal service in 2020 WHILE R211’s start pouring in... thereafter any R46 or R32 will meet their makers. Remember, what YOU may think is feasible is not what the MTA may think is COST EFFECTIVE. 

[Jemorie]

8 hours ago, FlushingExpress said:

the N, Q and W clearly have much ridership than the A.

Yet you don't ride the  regularly at all whatsoever. Keep talking.

[trainfan22]

8 hours ago, FlushingExpress said:

Most people commenting here are total hypocrities. They keep whining about how horrible the A is using the 75 footers yet say they would be fine on the N, Q and W when they clearly have much ridership than the A. The Q especially since 2nd Avenue opened, which is why the fat 75 footers will never run on it again. It makes me laugh how they think QBL CBTC will go off without a hitch in recent times many other projects like flushing CBTC, opening of 34th street hudson yards, reopening of cortlandt st and the r179 order were all behind schedule. I rode on QBL recently and barely 10% of the project is done, so R46s to CI will never happen. It's also funny how Jamaica will be 100% R160s yet over the years, Jamaica has been persistently giving its R160s to Coney Island. In fact I think they did it again recently being that i have seen a few r160s on the N Q W with E and F service posters on them. If the ultimate goal was for Jamaica to be all R160s, why didn't they send R46s to CI when the G was transferred there in 2011, when the W was restored, or during last year's state of emergency.

Actually from what I heard, the M shuttle does stink because of the R42s and few people ride it because they hate them so much. In fact the R32s were supposed to be used on there, but J riders preferred them more, so r42s were used instead, plus they're actually less prone to breakdowns if they run back and forth a short distance and fresh pond yard has a temporary overhaul shop for them, so his post is nonsensical. 

It's an inspection barn at Fresh Pond, not an overhaul shop like CI and 207th. 

 

As for the rest of your post, you're clearly biased as hell, who would trust anything you say in regards to the 42s

 

J line riders preferred them more.. I seriously doubt line riders prefer one old SMEE fleet over the other, especially considering the riders experience on both cars is pretty much the same.  I can see riders liking the NTT over the 42s though.

[biGC323232]

9 hours ago, FlushingExpress said:

Most people commenting here are total hypocrities. They keep whining about how horrible the A is using the 75 footers yet say they would be fine on the N, Q and W when they clearly have much ridership than the A. The Q especially since 2nd Avenue opened, which is why the fat 75 footers will never run on it again. It makes me laugh how they think QBL CBTC will go off without a hitch in recent times many other projects like flushing CBTC, opening of 34th street hudson yards, reopening of cortlandt st and the r179 order were all behind schedule. I rode on QBL recently and barely 10% of the project is done, so R46s to CI will never happen. It's also funny how Jamaica will be 100% R160s yet over the years, Jamaica has been persistently giving its R160s to Coney Island. In fact I think they did it again recently being that i have seen a few r160s on the N Q W with E and F service posters on them. If the ultimate goal was for Jamaica to be all R160s, why didn't they send R46s to CI when the G was transferred there in 2011, when the W was restored, or during last year's state of emergency.

Actually from what I heard, the M shuttle does stink because of the R42s and few people ride it because they hate them so much. In fact the R32s were supposed to be used on there, but J riders preferred them more, so r42s were used instead, plus they're actually less prone to breakdowns if they run back and forth a short distance and fresh pond yard has a temporary overhaul shop for them, so his post is nonsensical. 

I cant agree with the  or  being more busy than the .....Even with the 2av opening...Its nothing but a forum that members love to debate on about nyc transit..I mean relax....We all know the  gonna put THERE cars where ever they see fit regardless of what we say here...Me personally i do believe some of the members here who does post latest car assignment and future car assignments...I dont think they post them here for nothing....

[darkstar8983]

9 hours ago, Bosco said:

The R42s are there so that they can run 6-car trains.  The only other fleet that could do that at this point is the R32s, but of course those are needed to help make the  full length.

As has been discussed, the MTA is looking to increase their spare factor, even after full  service is restored.  Not considering that, I still don’t think the MTA ordered nearly enough R179s and it was a mistake to scale down the project—even with the emergency retirement of the R44s.  At the very least, they should have kept at least one option order of 5-car sets.  If anything, the only good thing about Bombardier dropping the ball is that had they finished the contract on time, we would never have gotten those extra cars and there would be a shortage anyway.

On a side note, I’d be surprised if service levels come 2020 are the same as it is now—the areas served by the  continue to grow.  This is why for the R211s, there are more than enough option cars to replace everything before the R68s, and why the total contract at the moment calls for 1612 cars.  While not confirmed, it is possible that some R211s will be in 4-car sets.

Just because CBTC is nowheres near to be done doesn't mean they won't swap the fleets sooner.  The last R188 was converted almost two years ago, and yet here we are with still no start date.  Plus, almost all R160s are only CBTC-ready.  This means equipment has to be installed, tested, etc.  It's not as intensive as the R188 project (the R142As were not CBTC-ready), but it will still require time to test and upgrade them.  And while the R211s are expected to start delivery in 2021, it won't be until at least the first option order is complete in 2024 that Jamaica can be 100% NTT without taking in more R160s.  As for the ones that went there recently, a few 9200 sets have been there since last year to accommodate the , and with the "Cuomo" trains on the , there have been some swaps.  Some Coney Island R160s got the Cuomo treatment, which is why there have been some 9400 sets on the .

The reason for the lateness in the Flushing CBTC launch was because of unforeseen issues that occurred after 2015, when the swap was just about done. Right now I don’t think Queens Blvd CBTC is even close to being done and the “start date” on paper might be changed. Initially they wanted the CBTC on the  by 2013, with Hudson Yards opening in 2012, but look where we are. All I wanted to say (agreeing with a couple of you), is that while there may be the CBTC car-upgrades going on with the Coney Island R160s, there is no point in swapping them this early in the project. And likely by the time it will be time, there might be more unforeseen issues and the R211s might already be testing. There would therefore be no point in the R46 swapping yards.

 

if we remember back to the installation of the  line CBTC, there were many major shutdowns required to do more of the invasive testing, and we haven’t seen any of these major changes yet on Queens Blvd.

[Jemorie]

31 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

I cant agree with the  or  being more busy than the .....Even with the 2av opening...Its nothing but a forum that members love to debate on about nyc transit..I mean relax....We all know the  gonna put THERE cars where ever they see fit regardless of what we say here...Me personally i do believe some of the members here who does post latest car assignment and future car assignments...I dont think they post them here for nothing....

Exactly. The  and  only use the R160s not just to relieve crowding but also because they both share the same terminal and yard. Hence the term “demanding” line. As for the , he keeps on acting like Second Avenue is the only “busy” and “overcrowded” portion of the entire line and I can almost guarantee you that it’s not necessary true. Not when we have much more truly overcrowded lines like the , ,  (which use narrow trains despite having wider doors) and  (which uses trains that are almost the same feet long as the A Division despite the cars being wider than the A Division rolling stock) during rush hours and, at times, off-peak. The Lexington Avenue Express trains easily get full to the brim leaving Fulton Street on the uptown-bound platform most of the time, hell even during the AM Rush and not that many people can fit onto them.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jemorie

[subwaycommuter1983]

This is an updated list of possible car assignments. It's very similar to the one posted by @Coney Island Av, but it has some adjustments.

Note: This is subject to change, based on how quickly the r179's are delivered before construction begins and based on what the MTA decides to do:

: r179's/r32s/r46's

: r68s/(r42s???)

: r46s 

: r160s/r32s/(r42's???)

/: r143's/r179's/r160s 

As for the r68s displaced from the :

Simple!!! Since the  currently has a small number of subway cars, which are NOT Enough to displace cars from other lines, these can be used as spares for the , ,  or , which all use r68s. 

As for the QBL CBTC: many r211s will most likely be delivered and/or in service by the time QBL CBTC is completed. So don't expect any changes in car fleet related to that matter any time. 

They're still working with Flushing CBTC  and there are still running r62's on the .

But going back to the r179's, it's not a final decision. Don't be surprised if the MTA makes a silly decision like sending the 5 car r179's to Concourse, so that the  gives up some of the r68's to the , and the  keeps the r46s. It's unlikely to happen, but who knows. 

[officiallyliam]

20 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Actually, the  spends more time outdoors than the  

The  has the outdoor segment from Prospect Park to Brighton Beach (and terminal dwell times), and the Manhattan Bridge outdoor portion. The  spends less time in Manhattan than the , while the  remains underground from 207 St to past Euclid Av, and even though it has the Far-Rockaway branch, the  would spend too much time continuously underground while it treks to 207 St, dwells, and comes back. 

As for the Jamaica/Coney Island swap, it really is dependent (time-wise) on whether Queens Blvd CBTC is on schedule. If it is not on schedule, no point in swapping the cars out because if 60-foot cars/R160s are assigned on an as-needed basis to lines with heavy ridership, then the  definitely hits the bottom of the barrel and should keep the R46s (with the  keeping the R160s for the time being). And if it falls even further behind (especially learning the lessons from the delays in Flushing CBTC), might as well wait for the R211s to arrive and then the R46s wont even have to be moved to another yard to just be there fore 3 months before retirement

 

I'd really rather not get bogged down in this whole R32 debacle again, but the is far superior route for the R32s. As noted above, it spends more time outside than the does, especially compared to the to Lefferts. Also, pressure on the will be increased during the Canarsie shutdown: all the more reason to ensure that the and have a more reliable fleet; conversely, the is a less critical line that will be largely unaffected by the mess.

Now, about Queens Blvd CBTC: I really don't think we should be that pessimistic about the timeframe. Yes, the Canarsie and Flushing projects dragged on, but at this point the MTA has two (three, if you count the Culver and Jamaica test tracks) CBTC installations under its belt. They've also set a more optimistic timeline (2022) for completion, which I believe is a faster timeline than they ever set for either the or the . That combined with the fact that the subway's capital projects and state of infrastructure disaster have garnered much attention in recent months will increase the pressure on the MTA to get this right the first time.

[Jemorie]

6 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This is an updated list of possible car assignments. It's very similar to the one posted by @Coney Island Av, but it has some adjustments.

Note: This is subject to change, based on how quickly the r179's are delivered before construction begins and based on what the MTA decides to do:

: r179's/r32s/r46's

: r68s/(r42s???)

: r46s 

: r160s/r32s/(r42's???)

/: r143's/r179's/r160s 

Certainly agree with all this except for the R32s and R42s on the  and . Personally don't think the R42s would be needed for the Canarise shutdown either But I guess it depends on whether the agency wants to keep them or not.

[Coney Island Av]

On 3/28/2018 at 6:35 PM, Jemorie said:

Certainly agree with all this except for the R32s and R42s on the  and . Personally don't think the R42s would be needed for the Canarise shutdown either But I guess it depends on whether the agency wants to keep them or not.

You see, these posts relating to assignments post-R179 delivery are ONLY OUR THOUGHTS. We're only a bunch of transit buffs, and not transit planners. 

The MTA might have completely different thoughts/plans for the assignments, and the best way we can figure out is when an MTA employee (cough cough @Dj Hammers) hints at it. 

This means that while we are saying stuff about R46  trains, R160  trains, R42  trains, R42  trains, and more, might only be likely to be a railfan's dream. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Coney Island Av

[Jemorie]

1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said:

You see, these posts relating to assignments post-R179 delivery are ONLY OUR THOUGHTS. We're only a bunch of transit buffs, and not transit planners. 

The MTA might have completely different thoughts/plans for the assignments, and the best way we can figure out is when an MTA employee (cough cough @Dj Hammers) hints at it. 

This means that while we are saying stuff about R46  trains, R160  trains, R42  trains, R42  trains, and more, might only be likely to be a railfan's dream. 

Yeah, I don’t care since you repeated that long winded statement over and over again periodically. Stop getting so upset and bossing everyone around whenever they say something that you don’t agree with. I like the R32s better on the  than on the  and  and you’re not going to force me to agree with you. Accept it, ignore it, or move on. It’s just a damn train. Not like we’re talking about actual serious stuff like political stuff or subway ridership or a deceased person or whatever.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Jemorie

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said:

You see, these posts relating to assignments post-R179 delivery are ONLY OUR THOUGHTS. We're only a bunch of transit buffs, and not transit planners. 

The MTA might have completely different thoughts/plans for the assignments, and the best way we can figure out is when an MTA employee (cough cough @Dj Hammers) hints at it. 

This means that while we are saying stuff about R46  trains, R160  trains, R42  trains, R42  trains, and more, might only be likely to be a railfan's dream. 

I agree 100%. The MTA has the final word in regards to fleet assignments. 

The MTA may be on the same page with us and materialize some of our thoughts.

OR

The MTA will make some odd decisions, like sending the 5 car r179's to Concourse, so that the  gives up some of the r68's to the , and the   keeps the r46s. It's unlikely to happen, but who knows. 

Only time and the MTA know what is going to happen. 

As a friendly reminder to all: Everyone in this forum have the right to make opinions and to agree/disagree in a respectful manner. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by subwaycommuter1983

[R32 3838]

Plans can change, them putting R32's on the has been talked about for a few years now. The original plan was to make the 100% R32's while some would be on the during the shutdown and even after it. 

 

If they really wanted the R32's on the one would be running on it right now.

CIY has jamaica's 92/9400's that could easily go back while in return the R46's at jamaica could have went to the to bump the R32's to the (B).

The during the shutdown would need more 60 footers, the R32's are the obvious choice to run alongside the. 12 sets of 10 car R179's and some R46's. 

 

If the R179's were mostly 10 cars then it would make sense to move all the R32's off the (A). 

And the way this R179 order is going, i wouldn't be surprised if mta pulled the plug and sue bombardier. Its obvious that by now 16 more cars should have been delivered by now. So bombardier is late again. The 3 sets of R179's been oos for over two weeks now due to them failing to go BIE.

 

At the end you'll still see R32's on the and lines at the same time.

Once the R46's are at CI, the will use some while the and has the majority of them

 

[R32 3838]

And for the last time, you can't run 8 car R42's on any non eastern division line without special C/R boards. So unless the is fully 600 feet you could rule that out. Putting the R42's on the instead of the R32's and on the makes better sense. 

[CTK246]

ITT: Made up car assignments insured by "MTA can change things"

[subwaycommuter1983]

31 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

And the way this R179 order is going, i wouldn't be surprised if mta pulled the plug and sue bombardier. Its obvious that by now 16 more cars should have been delivered by now. So bombardier is late again. The 3 sets of R179's been oos for over two weeks now due to them failing to go BIE.

 

 

 

 

This is really bad news. If the delays in the delivery of the r179's continue, we may end up with a severe car shortage during the shutdown. 

And there's no point of making any more speculations based on this news.

Shame on you Bombardier.  

[Coney Island Av]

Is there any confirmed date as to when the R179s will be back in service? This is unacceptable, as the  is still mostly SMEEs, and needs to be composed of the inverse as quickly as possible. 

Bombardier really screwed up the order, and with the recent R179 OOS incident, the MTA should sue the crap outta that company. 

We only have a few more weeks till the end of the  shutdown, and yet only three are, or should I say, were, operating on the . 

The next test train to enter service will most likely be another production car set, in the order of being delivered. 

Here is a list of recently delivered production car sets, from least to most recent. 

3066-3069: Late December 2017, entered service on January 12, 2018

3090-3093: Late December 2017, entered service on January 12, 2018

3086-3089: January 2018, entered service in March 2018

3094-3097: January 2018, entered service in March 2018

3098-3101: February 2018

3082-3085: February 2018

3078-3081: March 2018

3110-3113: March 2018 

From this, we can infer that the next set to enter service will be 3098-3101 and 3082-3085. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MysteriousBtrain]

So how did the R179s pass the 30 day test then? I have a feeling the MTA said f*ck it because of the rushed and sloppy lemon delivery.

Edited March 30, 2018 by MysteriousBtrain

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

So how did the R179s pass the 30 day test then? I have a feeling the NTA said f*ck it because of the rushed and sloppy lemon delivery

Wouldn't be the first time.....the R142s never passed. They just fixed the issues as the cars came in.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Cait Sith

[Bosco]

7 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This is really bad news. If the delays in the delivery of the r179's continue, we may end up with a severe car shortage during the shutdown. 

And there's no point of making any more speculations based on this news.

Shame on you Bombardier.  

Absolutely spot on.  Unfortunately, we are cornered, and either Bombardier delivers the 316 cars or they don't.  The whole thing of "cancel the order" has come up numerous times with the delays of the R179.  The MTA's too far in, and they can only sue Bombardier so much because they're financially in the shitter right now.  Those extra 16 cars announced in January were agreed upon in lieu of physical money for damages.

And also shame on the MTA for letting it get to this point, and still rushing things (as we saw with the 30-day test)...