R179 Discussion Thread

[KK 6 Ave Local]

 

10 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

The  will probably remain 480' after the shutdown. There's definitely enough ridership for 8 car trains under normal conditions.

So if the  stays R160 (not 179, as those are going to the ) , then the R179s of the  can come to the . However this puts the  at a shortage, but if the  get their 32s and 46s back to compensate, the  would be at a big shortage (remember, they would give 68s to the ) So the  would have to give 68s back. Essentially it's a circle. 

To avoid all of this , put CBTC provisions on the R46s of the  lines. The rebuilt R46s would be called R190s.

Yes, I know they are retiring, why rebuild them, but the R211 order is almost guaranteed to be delayed.

 

[Around the Horn]

The  and  would get R160s from Coney Island. None of that is an issue. 

And unless they start putting CBTC in the R179s for the , there would not be enough available 4 car R160s for the  (unless I screwed up the math somewhere)

Edited April 8, 2018 by Around the Horn

[subwaycommuter1983]

52 minutes ago, thicctrain said:

Ok, here's my possibly stupid plan: run  trains on weekends, just terminate them at 2 av or Delancey-Essex or 34 st.

It's not stupid. On the contrary, It's an excellent plan and I mentioned this in a  previous post. 

If that doesn't work, the other option would be to add more  trains during the weekends and have the same weekend headways as the .

Edited April 8, 2018 by subwaycommuter1983

[KK 6 Ave Local]

28 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It's not stupid. On the contrary, It's an excellent plan and I mentioned this in a  previous post. 

If that doesn't work, the other option would be to add more  trains during the weekends and have the same weekend headways as the .

phew. I didn't look into it's feasibility whatsoever so I was unsure 

[KK 6 Ave Local]

52 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

The  and  would get R160s from Coney Island. None of that is an issue. 

And unless they start putting CBTC in the R179s for the , there would not be enough available 4 car R160s for the  (unless I screwed up the math somewhere)

But the  are getting their 179s, and the 160s will be pushed to the . If it's enough for 3 10-car lines, it's enough for 1 4-car line.

[subwaycommuter1983]

 

[U-BahnNYC]

7 hours ago, thicctrain said:

put CBTC provisions on the R46s of the  lines. The rebuilt R46s would be called R190s.

Yes, I know they are retiring, why rebuild them, but the R211 order is almost guaranteed to be delayed.

Makes absolutely no sense pouring money on CBTC equipment for trains from the 1970s. Even if the R211 order is delayed, realize the R46s probably have, at max, 5 years left on the rails period. Kawasaki was chosen because they have a proven record of being nearly always on schedule.

Secondly, NYCT under Byford is not going to be keeping around old junk, they made that pretty clear. In fact, don't be surprised if all R68s get retired with R211 options, as well. Having a young fleet will certainly help the subway keep some degree of efficiency and having rolling stock commonality can help with operating costs, too.

In Europe and Asia, rolling stock is retired within 25 years, and that's WITH an extensive internal/external overhaul, which, in the case of the former, the NYCT cars have not been receiving.

[U-BahnNYC]

7 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

And unless they start putting CBTC in the R179s for the , there would not be enough available 4 car R160s for the  (unless I screwed up the math somewhere)

I believe this is from the assumption that the will be a mix of R32s and R160s, much like the used to be, in which case, there would be enough R160s to make up roughly half of its fleet. 

Plus, it is totally possible some sets from the will make their way to being assigned to the for the shutdown duration. I have in mind the Cuomo wrap R160s.

[subwaycommuter1983]

On 4/7/2018 at 5:52 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

In terms of car assignments related to the r179's: 

The Canarsie shutdown has more priority than the Queens Blvd CTBC since the tunnel construction will begin and end way before QBL CTBC construction is complete (some r211's may be delivered by that time). Therefore, the MTA shoudn't rush to make all QBL trains all NTT. Instead, I think the bulk of NTT's should run on the lines affected by the Canarsie shutdown (, ,, , , ). The r32's can also supplement the  and  trains with some trains running on the .

The r42's should only be used as a backup plan in the event that the delivery of all r179's is not complete by April 2019.

 

Following up on this post, this is my recommendation for the Canarsie shutdown car assignments if all r179 are delivered by April 2019:

: r32's, r179's, r160's

: r160's (10 car)

: r32's, r160's (8car)

/: r179's, r143's, r160's

/: r46's, r68's

r42's: can be preserved as backup, in the event of more r179 post delivery issues. Best case scenario: they won't be needed at all/ swan song time.

r68's displaced from : can be used as spares for , ,  or .

Any fleet changes related to QBL CTBC can wait until Canarsie shutdown work is complete.

[U-BahnNYC]

8 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

What do the R179's being on the have to do with R46's being removed from the and

Yeah, they're completely unrelated. is CI yard, are Jamaica.

[LGA Link N Train]

5 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Following up on this post, this is my recommendation for the Canarsie shutdown car assignments if all r179 are delivered by April 2019:

: r32's, r179's, r160's

: r160's (10 car)

: r32's, r160's (8car)

/: r179's, r143's, r160's

/: r46's, r68's

r42's: can be preserved as backup, in the event of more r179 post delivery issues. Best case scenario: they won't be needed at all/ swan song time.

r68's displaced from : can be used as spares for , ,  or .

Any fleet changes related to QBL CTBC can wait until Canarsie shutdown work is complete.

This, seems like a VERY likely outcome, though I'm not certain of it. but if I were you, I'd send ALL of my R32 trains down Rockaway and leave some for the  Rockaway Park, and I don't see how the train is affected by this. The on the other hand I can somewhat understand

Edited April 9, 2018 by LGA Link N train

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

21 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

This, seems like a VERY likely outcome, though I'm not certain of it. but if I were you, I'd send ALL of my R32 trains down Rockaway and leave some for the  Rockaway Park, and I don't see how the train is affected by this. The on the other hand I can somewhat understand

You can't send any R32's down on the Rockaway Park  since R32's dont allow for one person train operation, at least in it's shorter shuttle form which the always runs on. It can be sent down when it is normal car length similar to the , which can happen in the summer and during other times sporadically, as evidenced by previous events, albeit I think some (if not many or all) of the cars will only have an  instead of side sign which isn't super practical anyways for the service. The oldest train that can be sent down on the line when it usually runs is the R46 that allows for OPTO. Which already is happening on the shuttle and is much more simpler.

Edited April 9, 2018 by NoHacksJustKhaks

[subwaycommuter1983]

18 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

This, seems like a VERY likely outcome, though I'm not certain of it. but if I were you, I'd send ALL of my R32 trains down Rockaway and leave some for the  Rockaway Park, and I don't see how the train is affected by this. The on the other hand I can somewhat understand

I only mentioned the  because they run r68's, but I agree that the  will benefit more with more r68's, especially during rush hour.

Remember, the  currently has 50 cars of r68's, which is not a lot.

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by subwaycommuter1983

[subwaycommuter1983]

13 minutes ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

You can't send R32's down on the Rockaway Park  since R32's dont allow for one person train operation, at least in it's shorter shuttle form. It can be sent down when it is normal car length, which usually happens in the summer, albeit I think it'll have an  rollsign which isn't that practical. The oldest train that can be sent down on the line when it usually runs is the R46. Which already is happening.

The r32's needs to be mostly outdoors during the summer, so running r32's on the Rockaway shuttle, at least during the summer, may actually work.

[Coney Island Av]

Why are people saying all R42s will be scrapped before the shutdown? As said before, they'll be kept as spares for the shutdown. The need for car assignments will increase during the shutdown in order to provide extra service, which is why all SMEES will be kept. If they weren't needed, then some R32s would get scrapped as well. 

Just because they're rusted up and in poor condition doesn't mean they'll be scrapped. 

But I think the R42s should follow the R32s wherever they go, possibly going to the . They won't be kept for backups. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

6 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

Why are people saying all R42s will be scrapped before the shutdown? As said before, they'll be kept as spares for the shutdown. The need for car assignments will increase during the shutdown in order to provide extra service, which is why all SMEES will be kept. If they weren't needed, then some R32s would get scrapped as well. 

Just because they're rusted up and in poor condition doesn't mean they'll be scrapped. 

But I think the R42s should follow the R32s wherever they go, possibly going to the . They won't be kept for backups. 

They will be preserved during the shutdown. Where will it run??? How often??? That depends on ridership and on whether or not the r179's are delivered on time and without any issues.

Remember, we will have a surplus of cars once all r179's are in service.

Edited April 9, 2018 by subwaycommuter1983

[R32 3838]

Theres a strong rumor that the 50 R42's will be going to the and possibly the as full length trains.

 

Again the only reason why the R42's have a strong reason for staying is to increase the spare factor meaning less R32's and R42's on the road and can rotate cars more easily. Since the is getting the R32's, the spare factor has to be increased since the is 10 cars. This was obvious when they did the and swap. They had to borrow 3 sets of R42's and R46's from Jamaica.

 

The R179's are bridging the gap in the car shortage. Plus extra cars would be needed for the hence it getting some R32's and being mostly NTT's 

 

Plus the R179's keep having numerous issues plus the getting only 120 10 car trains (12 sets)

[R32 3838]

48 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The r32's needs to be mostly outdoors during the summer, so running r32's on the Rockaway shuttle, at least during the summer, may actually work.

 

 

If the shuttle is full length then they'll run R32's on it

[subwaycommuter1983]

14 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

Theres a strong rumor that the 50 R42's will be going to the and possibly the as full length trains.

 

Again the only reason why the R42's have a strong reason for staying is to increase the spare factor meaning less R32's and R42's on the road and can rotate cars more easily. Since the is getting the R32's, the spare factor has to be increased since the is 10 cars. This was obvious when they did the and swap. They had to borrow 3 sets of R42's and R46's from Jamaica.

 

The R179's are bridging the gap in the car shortage. Plus extra cars would be needed for the hence it getting some R32's and being mostly NTT's 

 

Plus the R179's keep having numerous issues plus the getting only 120 10 car trains (12 sets)

Let's see what happens. The r42's can also go to the Rockaway Shuttle in addition to the r32's. All SMEE 's need outdoor exposure, especially during the summer months. 

[Trainmaster5]

18 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Let's see what happens. The r42's can also go to the Rockaway Shuttle in addition to the r32's. All SMEE 's need outdoor exposure, especially during the summer months. 

SMEE 

R32, R42, R62, R62A, R68,  R68A.  Anything not  NTT is considered SMEE . R44 and R46 cars were considered to be SMEE in schoolcar  in the early '80s as well.  Might want to reconsider that  " all " statement.  Carry on. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 minute ago, Trainmaster5 said:

SMEE 

R32, R42, R62, R62A, R68,  R68A.  Anything not  NTT is considered SMEE . R44 and R46 cars were considered to be SMEE in schoolcar  in the early '80s as well.  Might want to reconsider that  " all " statement.  Carry on. 

I meant the r32's and r42's. The best fit for the r42's if they do run during the Canarsie shutdown would be the Rockaway Shuttle, while the  has the r179's, r32's and hopefully r160's (10 car), and the  hopefully gets 10 car r160's. The r46's from the  and  can go to the  and .

Quote

 

 

[Eric B]

R44 and 46 in the early 80's were pre-GOH and still had their P-Wire, which was basically the "NTT" of its day.

After GOH, it was said they were made to be "LIKE" SMEE, but were still different; especially the 44.

[LTA1992]

27 minutes ago, Eric B said:

R44 and 46 in the early 80's were pre-GOH and still had their P-Wire, which was basically the "NTT" of its day.

After GOH, it was said they were made to be "LIKE" SMEE, but were still different; especially the 44.

You got to it before I did.

[FlushingExpress]

8 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I meant the r32's and r42's. The best fit for the r42's if they do run during the Canarsie shutdown would be the Rockaway Shuttle, while the  has the r179's, r32's and hopefully r160's (10 car), and the  hopefully gets 10 car r160's. The r46's from the  and  can go to the  and .

 

Coney Island wont give any R160s away. N and W riders love them and would fume if they were replaced by fat old junks. Besides, they still have way more ridership than the A and C, hence need to stay mostly 60 footers. The C will be 100% R46s while the A will be half r46s and R32s. The 10 car R179s may or may not run on the A or C. They may also go to Jamaica for the F and R, which will mean more R46s for Pitkin, they can also go to Coney Island to make the N and W all NTTs, which would mean more R68s for the G, but we will see. R42s can't run on the shuttle because of OPTO, there are no plans to run the shuttle full length at all times. They'll be retired once enough R179s are in service. People keep saying the transit system needs more cars during the L train shutdown yet do not realize most lines and yards are already at near capacity during rush hours, especially the Williamsburg Bridge, Cranberry Tunnel, and Culver Line between Bergen street and church avenue, so the TA cannot really run more trains on the A, C, G, J , M, Z than they do now. Besides, they can also borrow cars from the L during the shutdown. And i really hope no one brings up QBL CBTC again as it really has no relevance to the R179s and will not be ready until 2024-2025 the earliest.

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, FlushingExpress said:

And i really hope no one brings up QBL CBTC again as it really has no relevance to the R179s and will not be ready until 2024-2025 the earliest.

Thank you.  By then, a lot of r211s will be in service. 

In that case,  all 10 car sets of r179's need to go to the .   train riders deserve NTT'S and it's more or less confirmed that this will happen.