R179 Discussion Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, RR503 said:

2. Look, I'd love to keep upstate flourishing. The issue I draw -- and indeed the reason I got involved in this argument -- was with our diagnosis of its issues and with our suggested treatment. We are losing tens of millions of tax dollars (if not more) on contracts every year because we are keeping upstate on industrial welfare. I think instead of that, we should be directing monies towards reinvention -- better transport to NY/BOS, better educational facilities, etc. Penalizing downstate's ability to function doesn't seem just. 

3. Totally, but you must understand that the issues of rezoning and replacement are new phenomena. We would not have had so many loft conversions if we hadn't had so much vacant industrial space -- a situation precipitated largely by the container. 

Essentially, Bombardier forgot how to do quality control. The company has lately been prioritizing their aviation division (specificially, the C series) above all else, and that focus is showing through in production. First, there were weld issues, and then design issues, and then delivered cars with 200+ items that needed changing/repair. 

2.  Well the other option is to let them die off and have no tax base up there and then we can pay for upstate and down state.  It's not like something is going to change over night if that Made in NY stipulation went away.  We both know that.  I personally don't see a short-term solution to this problem, especially given the fact of how many people are leaving that region, even with said stipulation in place because of a lack of jobs.

3. They are, but they were precipitated in part by the Bloomberg administration and their desire to get rid of manufacturing to allow for the rezoning of various neighborhoods which benefited developers who then found ways to "thank" the City.  Same thing going on with the de Blasio administration...

As for Bombardier, I find the whole thing troubling. Those cars don't look that much different from the other cars that have been coming online.  This is something that the Made in NY stipulation in my mind doesn't resolve, and simply an example of a company that has lost its way.

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

As per the specifications of the R179 design, all units measure 60 1/5 feet. Will all future subway car orders be 60 feet? 

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said:

While all of you are talking about manufacturing/jobs, I'm just gonna go ahead and post yet another myriad update regarding the R179s...

Status of all R179s:

3010-3019: *still* at Bombardier for modifications 

3050-3057: In service on the  

3058-3065: In service on the  

3066-3069: In service on the  

3074-3077: Recently arrived, testing at the Rockaways 

3078-3081: In service on the  

3082-3085: In service on the  

3086-3089: In service on the  

3090-3093: In service on the  

3094-3097: In service on the  

3098-3101: In service on the  

3102-3105: In service on the  

3106-3109: In service on the  

3110-3113: In service on the  

3114-3117: In service on the  

3118-3121: In service on the  

3122-3125: Burn-ins on the  

3126-3129: Testing in the Rockaways 

3134-3137: Burn-ins on the  

Things to note:

-3010-3019 could be back in the city by August/September. 

-The  with the R32s/R42s will stick around until fall. 

-3074-3077 arrived about two weeks ago.

-IDK if any new cars have been delivered, I need someone to verify if this is the case.

-The  will soon have over nine R179s in-service. 

-We're almost halfway through the delivery of the four-car sets! 

 

 

 

Thanks for the update.

For the fall we can expect that:

The   will be completely NTT.

The  will finally start receiving 10 car  r179's.

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

Don't know if anybody's posted this yet, but on a related topic:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/07/03/most-new-ttc-streetcars-to-be-shipped-to-quebec-to-fix-welding-defect-bombardier-says.html

Man they can't catch a break.. What's going on up there?

[subwaycommuter1983]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Don't know if anybody's posted this yet, but on a related topic:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/07/03/most-new-ttc-streetcars-to-be-shipped-to-quebec-to-fix-welding-defect-bombardier-says.html

I wonder if those were the issues that affected the r142's.

But this is one of the main culprits of the delays in the r179's. It's a good thing that these issues were caught before entering service and I'm glad that the MTA chose  Kawasaki for the r211's. It's no question that the best subway cars built for the MTA were made from Kawasaki.

Edited July 6, 2018 by subwaycommuter1983

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

13 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I wonder if those were the issues that affected the r142's.

But this is one of the main culprits of the delays in the r179's. It's a good thing that these issues were caught before entering service and I'm glad that the MTA chose  Kawasaki for the r211's. It's no question that the best subway cars built for the MTA were made from Kawasaki.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. Take a good look at the R143s. They look like terrible.

Edited July 6, 2018 by AlgorithmOfTruth

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

While all of you are talking about manufacturing/jobs, I'm just gonna go ahead and post yet another myriad update regarding the R179s...

Status of all R179s:

3010-3019: *still* at Bombardier for modifications 

3050-3057: In service on the  

3058-3065: In service on the  

3066-3069: In service on the  

3074-3077: Recently arrived, testing at the Rockaways 

3078-3081: In service on the  

3082-3085: In service on the  

3086-3089: In service on the  

3090-3093: In service on the  

3094-3097: In service on the  

3098-3101: In service on the  

3102-3105: In service on the  

3106-3109: In service on the  

3110-3113: In service on the  

3114-3117: In service on the  

3118-3121: In service on the  

3122-3125: Burn-ins on the  

3126-3129: Testing in the Rockaways 

3134-3137: Burn-ins on the  

Things to note:

-3010-3019 could be back in the city by August/September. 

-The  with the R32s/R42s will stick around until fall. 

-3074-3077 arrived about two weeks ago.

-IDK if any new cars have been delivered, I need someone to verify if this is the case.

-The  will soon have over nine R179s in-service. 

-We're almost halfway through the delivery of the four-car sets! 

If i've done my math correctly, we'll have 196 cars in 4 car sets and 120 cars in 10 car sets, therefore 3242-3245 should be the last 4 car and 3246-3250 should be the first 5 car and 3148 would be the exact halfway point for the 4 car units...

4 car (3050-3245) [196]

5 car (3010-3049; 3246-3315) [120] 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

2 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

Man they can't catch a break.. What's going on up there?

They sure do get a lot of second and third chances though.

28 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

If i've done my math correctly, we'll have 196 cars in 4 car sets and 120 cars in 10 car sets, therefore 3242-3245 should be the last 4 car and 3246-3250 should be the first 5 car and 3148 would be the exact halfway point for the 4 car units...

4 car (3050-3245) [196]

5 car (3010-3049; 3246-3315) [120] 

Those numbers work for me. I’m glad we were able to get 16 more cars in the order.

[subwaycommuter1983]

2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

They sure do get a lot of second and third chances though.

Those numbers work for me. I’m glad we were able to get 16 more cars in the order.

16 cars are not enough considering all the delays and ongoing issues, especially with the 5 car sets. Bombardier should have given the MTA 50 cars in addition to the 16. Those 50 cars would have equal to 5 more 10 car trains for the .

[darkstar8983]

11 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

16 cars are not enough considering all the delays and ongoing issues, especially with the 5 car sets. Bombardier should have given the MTA 50 cars in addition to the 16. Those 50 cars would have equal to 5 more 10 car trains for the .

They should have also made an additional 4-car set to have a nice round 200 cars for the  

[kosciusko]

17 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. Take a good look at the R143s. They look like terrible.

They're a bit dirty but they are no doubt among the most reliable.

[Around the Horn]

15 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

16 cars are not enough considering all the delays and ongoing issues, especially with the 5 car sets. Bombardier should have given the MTA 50 cars in addition to the 16. Those 50 cars would have equal to 5 more 10 car trains for the .

That's not how that works...

[trainfan22]

19 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. Take a good look at the R143s. They look like terrible.

That has nothing to do with build quality, no transit vehicle in NYC stays looking pretty for long.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

That's not how that works...

Exactly! Thankfully we got the extra cars that we did and now have enough for 12 ten-car trains instead of just four. We do need more new ten-car trains. 

5 hours ago, kosciusko said:

They're a bit dirty but they are no doubt among the most reliable.

I read in a Daily News article that the R143s’ reliability has dropped significantly over the last few years, more so than other cars

[Jemorie]

2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

We do need more new ten-car trains. 

Do or don't?

[subwaycommuter1983]

11 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

Do or don't?

Do

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

5 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

That has nothing to do with build quality, no transit vehicle in NYC stays looking pretty for long.

This has to do with the necessary custodial upkeep required to maintain presentable rolling stock. Consider the R46s on the  out of Pitkin Yard versus the R46s on the  out of Jamaica Yard. Cleaner trains are the result of being tended to more responsibly, mechanically and aesthetically, thus leading to a longer service life. I have no doubt the R46s used for the  out of JY will outlast the R46s used for the  out of PY.

[R68OnBroadway]

2 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

This has to do with the necessary custodial upkeep required to maintain presentable rolling stock. Consider the R46s on the  out of Pitkin Yard versus the R46s on the  out of Jamaica Yard. Cleaner trains are the result of being tended to more responsibly, mechanically and aesthetically, thus leading to a longer service life. I have no doubt the R46s used for the  out of JY will outlast the R46s used for the  out of PY.

Same goes for the 62As from 240th being better than Westchester and the 32s from ENY being better than the 207th ones.

[Fan Railer]

7 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Exactly! Thankfully we got the extra cars that we did and now have enough for 12 ten-car trains instead of just four. We do need more new ten-car trains. 

I read in a Daily News article that the R143s’ reliability has dropped significantly over the last few years, more so than other cars

The addition of CBTC equipment negatively affects MDBF numbers.

[Ian Lennon]

Although the R-62A has improved, the 62 beat it. I am guessing they are due for a SMS. As far as the NTT's go the R-142 is still smoking the R142A

# of Cars

Jan '18

Jan '17

% Diff

Subdivision A

2,895

122,105

140,328

-13.0%

Subdivision B

3,523

98,111

117,851

-16.7%

Systemwide

6,418

106,900

126,292

-15.4%

Car Class

# of Cars

Jan '18

Jan '17

% Diff

R32

222

33,108

33,331

-0.7%

R42

50

36,635

43,444

-15.7%

R46

752

71,633

73,642

-2.7%

R62

315

195,437

205,635

-5.0%

R62A

824

98,796

85,925

+15.0%

R68

425

100,291

114,085

-12.1%

R68A

200

95,307

102,130

-6.7%

R142

1,030

166,269

145,002

+14.7%

R142A

220

55,571

49,145

+13.1%

R143

212

93,179

54,814

+70.0%

R160

1,662

247,157

242,160

+2.1%

R188 - New

126

486,053

478,981

+1.5%

R188 - Conversion

380

154,591

193,909

-20.3%

Subdivision A

2,895

126,733

114,939

+10.3%

Subdivision B

3,523

114,774

111,652

+2.8%

Fleet

6,418

119,469

113,022

+5.7%

[Union Tpke]

8 hours ago, Fan Railer said:

The addition of CBTC equipment negatively affects MDBF numbers.

That is what I have been telling people. Expect the same for the R188s.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Then I guess we’ll see how the cars formerly known as R142As do after a few years of running with CBTC equipment.

[U-BahnNYC]

17 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

This has to do with the necessary custodial upkeep required to maintain presentable rolling stock. Consider the R46s on the  out of Pitkin Yard versus the R46s on the  out of Jamaica Yard. Cleaner trains are the result of being tended to more responsibly, mechanically and aesthetically, thus leading to a longer service life. I have no doubt the R46s used for the  out of JY will outlast the R46s used for the  out of PY. 

I've noticed that too, even though the R46s on the from JY are older than the ones at PY (the latter has all the 6000-numbered cars).

Also, it would appear the Coney Island based R160s on the are the newest because they are so clean and well maintained, even though they are in fact the older R160s. Lucky Broadway riders.

[trainfan22]

42s have a higher MDBF than the 32s😃

[Around the Horn]

40 minutes ago, U-BahnNYC said:

I've noticed that too, even though the R46s on the from JY are older than the ones at PY (the latter has all the 6000-numbered cars).

The R46s were not renumbered in chronological order... For example, 501 (which was a pilot car) is now 6169 at Pitkin